I agree (except for the bit with Sherlock as I like that show). To me Miracle Day would have worked better if Episodes 2-4 were just 1 episode. A lot of the story in them was filler. I think they should have had two 5-part series'. They could have aired the first 5 episodes in the Spring/Summer and the last 5 episodes in the Autumn.

I don't get the hate for Gwen. If the show was to return there could be many ways of changing the show. As this is a Sci-Fi show it is even possible to bring back Ianto, Owen and Toshiko (who was my favourite character).

definitely true, the terrible doctor who tv movie and then miracle day. american involvement has definitely been no friend to the doctor who universe. Would love to see another series of torchwood as I loved series 1-3 and would be good to have another series just so the abomination of miracle day isn't a the last footage of torchwood there ever is, as if they were to have another good, non USA, back to cardiff series, miracle day would just be seen as a bump in the road of an otherwise good series, but if there's never another one then in years to come, people will assume it got cancelled because it became so terrible

no! never..... ever.

I think Mr. Moffat has (rightly) thrown Torchwood into a crack. He's brought UNIT back to where it should have always been, complete with a black archive that was very Torchwood-esque.

That said, I have no idea what RTD was smoking when he cooked up Miracle Day. If he wanted to take Torchwood to the States, I always thought a better way of doing it would be to do it...literally. Have someone discover a 13-colonies-era Torchwood HQ that was abandoned after Independence was declared (after all, Torchwood was dedicated to the British Empire). Eventually bring Jack back into the picture. That sort of thing. "Miracle Day" didn't even have Torchwood, it was the Harkness show (with post-natal Gwen thrown in for good measure). And the less said about the gigantic butt at the end of Miracle Day the better.

My imho is that Miracle Day was RTD's first foray into what may have been a career in the USA as a showrunner.

It didn't work out. The show was awful, and he had personal issues back in the UK.

Even without the imperative to 'come home' MD killed the whole Torchwood franchise. USA TV is unforgiving.

i just found Miracle Day such a baffling misstep in nearly every way. It was basically your classic example of high concept and zero content folly. The central idea wasn't a bad one and wouldve worked as an episode of The Twilight Zone or similar as a clever 'what if?' scenario but stretched to ten episodes? Ludicrous! And then the sub plots were very weak and for a writer as brilliant as RTD rather uninspired and bordering on cliche. The few good ideas were underdeveloped, the many bad ones strung out to the point of tedium and the attempt to try and retain a bit of the original Torchwood with the new trans Atlantic action was so jarring it often felt like you were watching two different shows neither of which were very good.

For me the irony is that with the move to US TV and the extra budget the best idea wouldve been to go back to the Monster of the week format and Scooby Gang antics of S1 and 2. They finally had the money to do what they attempted with those seasons but on a larger stage and I think the Torchwood Team thing would have possibly really taken off. Captain Jack at his space pirate best wouldve found a massive audience and with Starz the freedom to make it even more adult and edgy was there. Though its floundering Agents of Shield is like a post Torchwood show. What that lacks is RTDs quality of writing and humour. I genuinely think if they have made another proper Torchwood team with different weekly episodes and an arc it might even still be on and at least couldve gone to a second series. And I say that as someone who dislikes S1 and 2. But I think it couldve worked in that new format.

Of course all of this is irrelevant especially in light of the vastly more important personal situation RTD has had to cope with.

Firstly Torchwood has nothing to do with Moffat. Whether it returns or not it is not down to Moffat - it is down to RT Davies. I'm afraid your Pre-Independence Day Torchwood idea would not work either. Independence Day was in 1776 and the Torchwood Institute was not found until Queen Victoria in the 1800s.

I think Torchwood can be saved. Being on BBC One helped it a lot. It averaged between 4-6 million viewers. That is much better than Series 1 and 2.

I'm just saying that RTD blew his wad, in terms of USA success, with Miracle Day.

I sometimes think that his seat-of-his-pants writing and flirting with deadlines happened to work in the UK (especially with the BBC at the time giving plenty of support) but if utterly flopped in the USA with no such support network.

Lots of SF/fantasy shows got their creators shit-canned once the initial ratings glow receded (qv. Heroes, Babylon 5).

I agree with you in some respect. Torchwood did not need to go to the States. Children of Earth did very well (set in the UK) and that was a global story line just like MD. Personally I would have preferred Miracle Day to be over 5 nights (like COE). Episodes 2-4 were nothing but filler in my opinion. It would have worked better in the following format:

Day 1 - The events of Episode 1
Day 2 - The events of Episodes 2, 3 & 4.
Day 3 - The events of Episodes 5 & 6
Day 4 - The events of Episodes 7 & 8
Day 5 - The events of Episodes 9 & 10

For me, the moment that encapsulates just how irredeemably incompetent Torchwood was occurs in Series 2, Episode 8, when Owen (who is, oh-so-paradoxically, dead) says out loud that he can't give mouth-to-mouth resuscitation because he has no breath. Is it really the case that the production team didn't know how speech is produced, or did they just not care?

The only redeeming features of the whole sorry mess are the two episodes written by P.J. Hammond, who seems, however, to have been writing for another and better series than ever made it to the screen.

Torchwood, in all its manifestations, has been nothing but a steaming midden of inadequacy. It should never, ever, be brought back.

No. It has gone, it has ceased to be.... UNIT is now back on track as the de-facto alien investigating arm of the Government, with a far better set up for a spin off series. The back premise of T W being above the law etc never really sat that well, particularly as they were a "covert" organisation who every grandma in Cardiff where aware of, had an ongoing dialogue with UNIT, etc, etc. the funniest example of this contradiction was the ep where gappy Gwen. Burst into the hospital, ID in hand, shouting Torchwood, everybody out! Wouldn't that be a bit meaningless if they were as secretive as they were supposed to be!

They killed it themselves. Killing of important cast members by the bucket-load and then the worst crime imaginable; bloody Americanising it!

It was great it was good it was fantastic TV. Then it got so shit it's not worth carrying on.

Well EastEnders is getting exciting at the moment. Annette Badland who played Slitheen Margaret Blaine in the 2005 series of Doctor Who, is currently in EE. She plays Aunt Babe, who is related to Mick Carter and his sisters Tina and Shirley.

Why don't you give that a go? I think Annette's EE debut is still on the BBC iplayer.

There is also Birds of a Feather on Thursdays at 8.30pm on ITV, The Musketeers with Peter Capaldi and Call the Midwife on BBC1, Sunday evenings.

Think it could work maybe a spin off where jack and gwen meet 12 and Clara. Depends if jb and em are available. Know eve had her second child last month.

I think the 'Who' universe seems a bit small these days. No Torchwood, no Sarah Jane Adventures, no Doctor Who Confidential. There aren't even any animated stories any more. I think we need something more than just the main show because otherwise its going to feel like the 'golden age' has already come and gone.

I think the capacity for cross-over stories (and characters from one show sometimes showing up in another) is great fun. I think that's why The Stolen Earth/Journey's End worked so well for me. All the different parts of the Whoniverse coming together for a single story. Just wonderful!

So I think there are reasons to bring back Torchwood that would benefit the main show. And I think there are plenty more stories for Torchwood, but I think the show could do with some structural changes first. I think the general idea of a secret organisation collecting alien artifacts and seeing off alien threats is great. I just think it worked better when there was a head quarters, some sort of official remit and a proper core team. Otherwise its just a small group of individuals running around in a panic.

I don't get it either, I always think Gwen is the important person in the show. Yes, Jack is technically but for me, Gwen was our eyes and ears when it first started. She knew what we knew and through her we discovered what Torchwood was all about and she viewed it from the outside. She also was the link to reality I suppose by having a boyfriend and now kids and for me she showed how we would cope if we were thrust into that situation. She was in short being the character we identify with, much like a Companion in Doctor Who can be.

Plus she also hot and she reminds a lot of Emma Peel from The Avengers in her look Pre-Miracle Day.

Even though Miracle Day was panned by some very vocal fans on Internet forums, was it really considered a failure in either the UK or the US? Starz seemed quite enthusiastic about producing more Torchwood whenever RTD is ready.

http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2012/03/...wood-possible/
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s8/torc...tarz-exec.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s8/to...-t-davies.html

It's funny how a show bowing out with stable viewing figures in 2011 gets warped into "I didn't like it and it didn't continue, so RTD must have been shit-canned." in 2014. Good old confirmation bias.

BIB: Not sure how you make Babylon 5 fit into that category. The show's history (5 seasons were made and it ended, as was always planned) and JMS's career (went on to create other TV shows (Crusade, Jeremiah) and a movie scripted (Changeling)) simply does not fit your premise.

I had a dream last night that Torchwood was back on TV. The team were Jack, Gwen and Jim Carrey playing an FBI agent who's joined the team. All I can really recall is the three of them stood on the back of a plane and having to jump out, there were only two parachutes and Jim and Gwen got them, Jack then had to jump from the plane without one...

Yes, it should be brought back with Jack/Gwen at the helm, two new members added into the mix, supporting roles for Rhys/Andy and maybe some guest appearances from Martha/Mickey and set back in Cardiff as well with a new Hub.

Either as a ten part series or three 90 minute episodes in the vein of Sherlock.

The US have said there will be no more Torchwood without RTD. Notwithstanding his personal life, RTD appears to have moved on to other projects such as wizards v aliens and cucumber. I get the feeling his has no appetite for doing any more Torchwood. The only one who seems to be pushing it, is john Barrowman, but both he and eve Myles also have other enduring projects on the go - again making a return difficult. If Miracle Day was any better, then there may be more of an interest from the production teams to go forward with more.

Being the companion hardly makes a character immune from hate, look at the hate Rose and Amy get from various sections of the fandom.

I agree with you. When Doctor Who returned in 2005, Rose acted as the eyes into this new world.

If Torchwood is never to return than can the BBC make another spin-off? How about UNIT? It could also bring back previous characters like Martha and Mickey.

I agree, I'm not saying people shouldn't hate Gwen, it's all down to personal opinion in the end. Like I hate Love and Monsters, or Rings Of Athaken etc. As with people who defend those stories, I think Gwen needs some defending sometimes too. I just happen to disagree she is either uninteresting or unimportant. I don't think Torchwood would be the same without her.


Or maybe Gwen can have her own adventures.......