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Has Ray won already? |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 1,282
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I didnt see Ray first time round so he is new to me. I wasn't keen on him the first couple of weeks but he has definitely grown on me. No question he is the best, I also think he is the type of skater you can enjoy watching without needing to 'like' him.
The only problem I have is his partner who dosnt seem to 'fit' him too well. I would much prefer to see him with Keirens partner - she is tiny and fearless. The routines they could create together would be magical. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Will he win - probably
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes. Can Suzanne and Hayley do a vote winning number if they get it - yes. Beth has a smaller dancing range, but can do the right one if she gets it too. Is there going to be any progression with Ray's tricks - does he have more moves stored, or will he keep on doing the same signature moves - we don't know. Suzanne and Hayley are adding new moves still. What else can they do? Whose act will still look interesting by the end? Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no. Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines. Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Beth, Suzanne and Hayley all already have up and down stories, and they are the chasers, so anyone of them closing the gap will look good. The size of the gap makes them look better if they close it. Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do. Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to and that will impress. Most show dances have been pretty terrible, and blur the focus on the celeb - which may increase his advantage there. If its flying, the girls can do as well, or better. By the final, all the finalists may well have equal 40/40 dances to reuse. The differences in quality over the series are reduced to one or two more equal routines. Do the public vote on Ray's show record being stronger, or do they vote for who has the most appealing dance, on the night? Do people vote for Emmerdale/Corrie. the one they voted for last year, or the male, the master or the underdog, or the most emotional or exciting routine, with or against the judges, for who they like most, or for the best skater? |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 15,423
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Quote:
Oh I do hope so. With Bonnie and Zaraah both gone, Ray's the only one I'm going to look forward to see skate. He's so dynamic and exciting. The others are way behind.
Apart from their week one performance, I'm not really feeling Suzanne & Matt this time round. If that's Ray's closest competition then he should win by a landslide. Quote:
imo he put Matt Evers in the shade tonight.
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#29 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 675
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Quote:
Will he win - probably
Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no. Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines. Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do. Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to I would agree with many of your variables with the exception of the above. Firstly I believe Ray is just as good an actor as any of the female celebs having seen him both in a variety of roles in musical theatre and as a straight actor in the tour of the excellent production of Rise and Fall of Little Voice. Secondly although dance trained neither Suzanne nor Hayley reached the competitive levels of Ray who was UK and European Latin and Ballroom champion and I believe rated second in the world. He was also UK jazz dance and rock and roll champion I think. He can carry on getting better and better with more moves he may be practicing so could still have a journey. Thirdly I think his partnership and relationship with Maria is wonderful and just as strong as the others. Whether flying is back or not we don't know but Ray was excellent at that too and was just as graceful as any of the women IMO. If they have to choreograph their own routines in the final he is likely to have the choreographic background to produce something spectacular. All this is subjective of course and this is just my opinion. |
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#30 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,786
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I hope he wins - He has been amazing!!!
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#31 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,240
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Quote:
I didnt see Ray first time round so he is new to me. I wasn't keen on him the first couple of weeks but he has definitely grown on me. No question he is the best, I also think he is the type of skater you can enjoy watching without needing to 'like' him.
The only problem I have is his partner who dosnt seem to 'fit' him too well. I would much prefer to see him with Keirens partner - she is tiny and fearless. The routines they could create together would be magical. .
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#32 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28,896
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Quote:
Will he win - probably
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes. If you gave the same routine to Ray and any other contestant, he would out-skate and out-perform them. He's just better in every respect. Sometimes you just have to say too good. |
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#33 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
Will he win - probably
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes. Can Suzanne and Hayley do a vote winning number if they get it - yes. Beth has a smaller dancing range, but can do the right one if she gets it too. Is there going to be any progression with Ray's tricks - does he have more moves stored, or will he keep on doing the same signature moves - we don't know. Suzanne and Hayley are adding new moves still. What else can they do? Whose act will still look interesting by the end? Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no. Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines. Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Beth, Suzanne and Hayley all already have up and down stories, and they are the chasers, so anyone of them closing the gap will look good. The size of the gap makes them look better if they close it. Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do. Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to and that will impress. Most show dances have been pretty terrible, and blur the focus on the celeb - which may increase his advantage there. If its flying, the girls can do as well, or better. By the final, all the finalists may well have equal 40/40 dances to reuse. The differences in quality over the series are reduced to one or two more equal routines. Do the public vote on Ray's show record being stronger, or do they vote for who has the most appealing dance, on the night? Do people vote for Emmerdale/Corrie. the one they voted for last year, or the male, the master or the underdog, or the most emotional or exciting routine, with or against the judges, for who they like most, or for the best skater? |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,589
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Quote:
For so many reasons this doesn't need to be a one horse race, but the judges seem DETERMINED that it will be. They do this every year and it's why I stopped watching. Last night they took Beth out as contender, which based on skating skills and popularity she could be. I had a look through last year and it was appalling! So glad I didn't watch it in full.
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#35 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 103
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Off the ice I've always found Ray to be a bit too much though I can't say I dislike him. However, put him on the ice and I suddenly can't take my eyes off him. Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now is my all-time fave doi routine and I've watched it many times on YouTube. What I love about Ray though is he doesn't need all the fancy, big lifts whether he can do them or not - it's all about the timing, the intricate movements with Maria. In this sense it makes them close in style to Torvill and Dean who were never well known for spectacular lifts themselves, just the pure skating.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
The judges aren't making it a one horse race. Ray's brilliance is doing that. Suzanne is the next best there, although she isn't back to her best yet, but Ray completely destroyed her in their duel.
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#37 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
Well that's a good example of something they shouldn't have done.
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#38 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 1,282
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I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later? |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,840
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Quote:
I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later? And I agree with mnc about the lifts, he doesn't need them because his skating and footwork are so exceptional. I've always thought he didn't do them to showcase this. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
I think that's the one with the perfect 30 as I've been looking back too. They (whoever they are) have done it to Suzanne's 'Music' routine as well (the irony!) 😡
And I agree with mnc about the lifts, he doesn't need them because his skating and footwork are so exceptional. I've always thought he didn't do them to showcase this. |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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Quote:
I disagree with that.
If you gave the same routine to Ray and any other contestant, he would out-skate and out-perform them. He's just better in every respect. Sometimes you just have to say Obviously iftoo good. The point about routines is that some are simply better vote winners, some allow people to show what they are good at, and some nullify advantages someone might have. If they write Ray a routine that allows him to do everything he can do better, and he gets a story and gives the audience an emotional connection, he will be unbeatable. If someone else gets a really great dance routine without Ray's tricks, it may work even better than anything he gets. A really good dance routine with bigger wow factor in the lifts, may also trump skating tricks - think Hayley's best routines with Suzanne's best tricks. By the final. you would hope that everyone there will have a routine worth 40 - so its going to be a case of whether the voters think Ray is actually worth 50 out of 40, or prefer the content of another 40/40 routine. Its perfectly possible Ray will get the best routine of the series, or the voters will vote on who skates fastest, jumps highest, and moves their feet fastest. They may vote on the series as a whole. Or, they may find some other routine, or the final boleros, make them laugh, cry, or say wow, louder. |
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#42 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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Quote:
I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later? |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 675
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Quote:
He can do some decent lifts, or he could. Thats pretty remarkable since he's not that big. What he can't do is some lifts that require more strength that a Kyran or Sam can hold up, or those that require more experience or skill or power to be safe. Bonnie and Suzanne , are the right height, and have the right balance and skills to do their end of the lifts safely, and have very strong tall professionals to hold them up safely. If Ray was Sam's size, he wouldn't be able to do much of what he does either, so its pretty much swings and roundabouts.
Frankly I personally prefer watching someone dance on ice fluently without lifts which often make a routine disjointed! Some have to put them in to impress as either they lack musicality or dance ability or basic skating skills. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
What I love about Ray though is he doesn't need all the fancy, big lifts whether he can do them or not - it's all about the timing, the intricate movements with Maria. In this sense it makes them close in style to Torvill and Dean who were never well known for spectacular lifts themselves, just the pure skating.
Agree 100%....it's what I love about watching Ray and Maria - their style is so similar to Torville and Dean - beautiful fluid skating - they dont need all the tricks and lifts which IMHO dont add anything to real "dancing on ice"....
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#45 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Midlands
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can anyone lip read?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlS5L09dW8
If I've done that right it's the link to Rays previous week 6 skate, no sound sorry. At the beginning they are practising the lift and discussing it. At around 3.15 is the lift - think thats where it is, I watched it a couple of times and was so enjoying the routine I kept forgetting to note the time! As amytigger says his physique is different now so I see no reason why he couldn't do lifts if he chose. As it's Kyran and Sams 'big thing' being able to do lifts and neither are as nimble as Ray maybe T&D are choreographing it that way to keep it a more level playing field for a few weeks. . |
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#46 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Away With The Fairys.
Posts: 5,605
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Quote:
I do sadly think that it's a competition for second place. When it comes to shows like this, I don't like it when one of the competitors is so much better than the rest. I think it makes the show boring. When there's two, three or more competitors who could win and it's difficult to call between them, I think it makes for a more exciting, entertaining show.
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#47 |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
I think he'd won before he even put a blade on ice.
Unless he has some kind of spectacular disaster in the final, he will win and to be honest, if he doesn't, it will be an absolute travesty. He is by far the best skater DOI has ever produced whether you like him or not. He is in a completely different class to the others.
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#48 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,392
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Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlS5L09dW8
If I've done that right it's the link to Rays previous week 6 skate, no sound sorry. At the beginning they are practising the lift and discussing it. At around 3.15 is the lift - think thats where it is, I watched it a couple of times and was so enjoying the routine I kept forgetting to note the time! As amytigger says his physique is different now so I see no reason why he couldn't do lifts if he chose. As it's Kyran and Sams 'big thing' being able to do lifts and neither are as nimble as Ray maybe T&D are choreographing it that way to keep it a more level playing field for a few weeks. .
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#49 |
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Guest
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,621
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Yes, he has
The choreography he is given by T&D is heads and shoulders above what they give to the others, he is a great skater but so is Suzanne, Keiran, Beth & to a lesser extent Hayley but IMO the choreography Ray is given pushes him to the top of the leader board every week |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,514
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I actually felt tonight's routine sold him short in a way. Yes it was exciting watching him bombing around and leaping, but I wanted more direct interaction between him and Maria.
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