Her marking seems very low compared to the others and she has constantly - except week 1 - been on very early in the running order!

Ray, however, has been towards the end constantly, so does this suggest his votes may not be as high - behind Haley and Suzanne - as the producers want?

I don't think Ray has it in the bag like some think. He's not really that likeable (compared to the others anyway) and we saw last year with Beth/Matt how much that can have an effect on votes.

She may well be, but I don't think you can put Ray and his marks in the same category as Matt L last year....

Matt was heavily over marked at the expense of Beth - his many glaring errors such as his posture were ignored whilst Beth was constantly being picked up for far more minor errors. Ray's skating is excellent and his performances are divine..... There is no comparison between him and Matt as he is deservedly at the top of the heap when it comes to scoring

The Matt/ Beth scenario is more akin to the Suzanne/ Hayley/ Sam trio - Suzanne is getting clobbered whilst the other 2 are being somewhat over marked. The panel should beware as their over marking backfired spectacularly on them last year. The public will vote for the person they want to win, and whether that is one the judges favour or not, depends on how the judges have treated the contestants. At the moment they are encouraging the underdog vote for Suzanne the way they are treating her - which is a shame as she is a fabulous skater with the potential to really challenge Ray if given better choreography.

And yet Ray managed to win his series. Funny that.

So did Sam. Yet he's been in the skate off three times this series already.

Matt was bottom of the public vote every week but one last year. He only avoided the skate off because he topped the leaderboard.

Ray was behind Coleen and Todd in the public vote - nowhere near the bottom

I actually wonder if Hayley isn't getting as high a public vote as they would like. Or Beth and Susanne are getting more. It would explain why they are bumping Hayley so much and suppressing Beth and Susanne. I can't think why as they are the better skaters.

I still think Ray will win but it will be closer than people imagine IMO.

And to be honest the judges have always had a weird obsession with Hayley and a dislike of Beth. It's nothing new. Suzanne's treatment is odd though.

Where do you get these stats from?

Voting results from last year and 2009 - I'll try to find them

ITV publish the results but I couldn't find last year's.

Found 2010 and 2011 but no others.

Thread with voting results 2009:

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1007043

To view the results, someone did a spreadsheet in post 28

2013:

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1807738

I was wrong - Matt wasn't bottom of the public vote every week but one, but he WAS bottom two

I was actually thinking about this last night.

I don't know what they're playing at with her. Is her support that big that they're using her as a tool to knock out other contestants? Putting her in danger of the skate off will ensure she beats Gareth in the vote, for example.

Do they just want to knock down her support a little bit (or even get her out) so they're giving her crap scores/routines?

Are they going to start using her properly now that we're down the last few? They may have wanted her to have a "journey" and get some momentum going as we head towards the final. Maybe they were worried that she may peak too soon if they continued giving her performances like her week one routine?

Who knows? I'm annoyed with the way she's currently being treated though, whatever the reason. Stop playing games and give her routines that work to her advantage.

That's a matter of opinion. The people I find likeable you might find unlikeable, and vice versa.

Agree with every word. Jason tells her she is playing it safe while hanging out of Matt's neck by her ankles !!! Like to see him try it. Robin tells her week one, she does not need any fancy lifts and tricks, her ability is so good. Who do you believe.

Hayley's routine was full of expression emotionally, performed very well granted, but with bugger all complex lifts or moves at all and she sweeps the board.

Next week's choreography is going to be very interesting. Lets see who gets what, which will be a real indication of who they want to stay and who they want out.

You have to remember ITV want ratings and will often position skaters accordingly, which is often why the popular ones are put on near the end, usually with a popular one opening.

It's really hard to tell but Suzanne has been tested several times and she's been fine. Hayley was tested in week one as she had a basic routine, was on first AND not too high on the leaderboard. Beth has also been tested after the Duel where her self choreographed routine was ropey.

I suspect all 3 girls are doing well, they are different enough not to split the vote but I do think Suzanne is maybe doing the best as some better routines would see her fly. But it's utterly impossible to say.

As for Ray I'm sure he's quite rightly hoovering up the male vote - we've already seen that Kyran and Sam have been in trouble and it seems highly likely these will be the next to go. But I can also see Kyran surviving another skate off not against Sam since the judges like him.

It's so hard now, personally I don't want any girl to go now. All three will be fully tested from now and routine and running order are going to matter hugely

Surely the judges will get the message with Sam if he's in the skate off again next week?

It must be demoralising for the poor bloke to be there - its not nice knowing that the public aren't voting for you no matter how hard you work, and it might be kinder if they let him go next week - he hasn't even had the benefit of a bottom 2 bounce back like most of them get....

I don't think they are that competent or care much who comes third and fourth ,as the series may not be coming back. They just seemed focused on getting a Ray-Hayley final.

If they are trying to manipulate things below who they want as the last two, or trying for some storylines, they are completely losing the plot- or rather it changes by the week and by the judge. Kyran was out of favour last week and got comments suggesting he should go. This week he's back in favour. Beth has a pretty good improvement/journey story going on, but they undermined it last week - by basically saying she hadn't improved. Last week they wanted someone to duel Ray - so Suzanne was the contender because hayley can't do those moves - this week they painted her in her VT and comments as failing to perform - even when she performed this weeks routine, as written, perfectly. They seem to be ruining the few good stories they have - there is no challenger to Ray, and there is no journey story.

The only constant is that Ray and Hayley - after being given dull routines and underperforming in week one - have since been routines that are always mong the top 3 on offer, that suit both their talents, and avoid things they can't do well. Rays weaknesses are few, but they could give him new things to do, take out his signature moves, or give him a different style of routine, or even something as dull as most contestants get. It wouldn't be difficult to stretch Hayley's repertoire - the problem is she can't do the other things. As it is, though, Hayley's marks have been inflated for routines with little difficulty in them compared to what the other females have been doing.

I really don't think she is. She isn't that well known, she peaked in week one and doesn't stand out much.

I think you're looking into it too much - at the end of the day the judges are increasingly all over the place with comments, always have been but it's been increasingly worse the last couple of years. You said it yourself, they say one thing one week, another the next. So it's not about what they want or some pre-planned pattern, because it too often changes. It doesn't help that Robin has gone for skating at the expense of everything else. And it's also really difficult, like in Suzanne's case last night, giving scores to bog standard routines. Yes she performed it perfectly, like anyone decent could, but you couldn't justify high marks for it. It's hard, because that's not anyone's fault. But of course T&D can't produce top notch routines for everyone, which is the show's main problem.

Also it is obvious you dislike Hayley which leads to you saying those things, and of course you could be right, but I don't think so and very much disagree. Yes she's been given good routines, but so has Beth. I doubt there is any plan for anyone in the final two - but I did say before this started I predicted a Ray/Hayley final 2, simply because of their popularity and ability. I refuse to believe it is being "made" for that, it's just the natural way things are going. At least so far, it could change.

The only thing I agree with is Suzanne being short changed apart from week one and I don't know why that is, but she's still there and her self-choreography with Matt was brilliant, fall aside.

I don't think Hayley has been overmarked at all, those routines aren't as easy as you make out, and how exactly do we know Hayley can't do what the others do? She is doing what she's given as well remember. I personally find her more graceful and fluid than than the other 2 girls - Suzanne is great but often clunky, so tricks aside I prefer Hayley.

This could still go any way. I dread a Music Vs Jai Ho skate-off but suspect a Jai Ho win which would just narrow it for me anyway.

I thought Suzanne had to have some time off training as her son was ill. Hopefully she'll get a good routine this week. She's my favorite, she seems the most genuine in her performances - although last weeks performance was very cheesy with lots of gurning, whilst Hayleys was the opposite.

Agreed. Every year the same thing is said. 'ITV want a final 2 of' - I honestly think it's all in people's minds, it's the final series, I honestly don't think itv care about who is in the final. They are all ex champions now so let's all enjoy the final 4 weeks without thinking too much about what itv want

Oh god, I hope not.

Out of all the skaters, Ray is the one for me to win this last series.
Out of all the women still left, I love Beth the best because unlike most definitely Hayley and Suzanne, she can skate on her own quite well and doesn't have to be holding onto her partner all the time like Hayley does a lot of and Suzanne does quite a bit.

I'm not sure what the judges see in Hayley so much because while she is very expressive, she lacks the skating skills of being comfortable skating on her own for a decent length of time. So yes her routine on Sunday was good but for me it was not worthy of 9/9.5 more a 8.

Not too fuss who is in the final as long as Ray is one of the finalist. I'd be more than happy if it was Beth and she is the only one I would be ok with if she beat Ray in the public vote.

I don't dislike Hayley. She does what she does well, is working hard, and she's improving in some areas. The point would stand whoever was in a similar position. Its just a fact that Hayley is getting routines that allow her to maximise her potential, without being challenged much, when the other people are not. To cap that, she's now getting marked higher because she's got a routine that suits her, that works better as a complete routine, and has less risk, or difficulty. You just can't mark ice dancing without allowing for difficulty, or by claiming something more difficult is isn't difficult enough, while throwing 9s at something with much less difficulty.

They actually have a lesser issue with Ray not doing big lifts while Sam and Kyran are given them. There may be a more obvious safety reason there - and it doesn't matter because Ray has more than enough other difficulty in other areas in his routines to make up, and can do a range of styles. Even if you argue that Hayley also only gets what she can do safely too, you are still left with the problem that she then gets the less risky, better dance routines. You can only fairly deal with that by deducting marks for lack of difficulty, or allowing everyone to do similarly good routines, and adding more marks on them if they can add difficulty.

You are right that they may just not be very good at organising a fair competition, or writing enough good routines, and just set out to fill the show with a male and/or female wow factor routine, one or two top dance routines, and filler for everyone else. If some people, though, habitually get high scoring routines that others could do, while others get indifferent or difficult risky routines, people are going to raise the point that the routines decide the result. They are also going to wonder why that was allowed to happen.

Music v Jai Ho is even more fraught than you may think. Music is vastly more difficult, so sending Suzanne home there would look odd and cause a major reaction . The problem is that, with teams this week distorting the scores, and if past allocation of routines doesn't change , its very possible that Music will have been used in a skate off before any Jai Ho v Music skate off could happen. Its a lot easier for the judges to argue for Jai Ho against anything else that Suzanne could put up in a skate off, or anything Kyran. Sam, or Beth could repeat from their series in a skate off - its much less difficult , but it just is a better (non T and D) dance routine.