The Ratings Thread (Part 58)

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jsam93

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Both good ideas I would support. I wonder if a rebrand could be on the cards as well?”

I don't see why Channel 5 needs a rebrand in terms of the logo, imaging etc. The current branding is very strong and effective, IMO.

The only rebrand Channel 5 needs is a slight rebrand in terms of content, which will hopefully come in terms of increased investment from the new owners. I'd like to see them try their hand at more original drama and comedy and make a proper re-entry into the sports rights market. Although, of course, it's difficult for C5 to compete with the might of BBC, Sky, ITV and BT in that department. I don't know all that much about C5's budget and the cost of sports rights, so I'm not sure which competitions rights would be within their reach...

yorkie100

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by cylon6:
“If anything people should ignore him. He's never rude to people on here like they are to him and they don't get banned. I find it petty how some here complain to the mods about Samuel.

There are far worse than Samuel who never get touched, but not surprising considering the moderation around here and how they sometimes don't reply to people who ask them questions.”

Having a go at the moderators - thats an interesting tactic.

I do agree about Samuel though.

rzt

15-04-2014

Here's a look at how the four main broadcasters did in the BARB Monthly Shares for March 2014:

BBC
BBC1: 22.6% (March 2013: 21.6%), BBC2: 5.7% (5.2%), BBC3: 1.4% (1.3%), BBC4: 0.9% (0.9%), BBC News: 1.3% (1.1%), BBC RB: 0.1% (0.1%), CBBC: 0.6% (0.6%), CBeebies: 1.3% (1.4%)
--> Total: 33.9% (March 2013: 32.4%)

ITV
ITV(1): 15.5% (16.3%), ITV2: 2.4% (2.8%), ITV3: 2.3% (2.8%), ITV4: 1.1% (1.1%), CITV: 0.3% (0.4%)
--> Total: 21.6% (March 2013: 23.4%)

Channel 4
C4: 5.6% (6.0%), E4: 1.9% (1.8%), Film4: 1.4% (1.6%), More4: 1.4% (1.4%), 4Music: 0.3% (0.3%), 4Seven: 0.3% (0.3%)
--> Total: 10.9% (March 2013: 11.4%)

Channel 5
C5: 4.2% (4.4%), 5*: 0.5% (0.5%), 5USA: 1.0% (1.0%), 5+24: 0.1% (n/a)
--> Total: 5.8% (March 2013: 5.9%)

For the second month in a row, the BBC (+5%) was the only broadcaster up year-on-year for the month, achieving its best March market share since 2007 (34.6%). Channel 5 (-2%), Channel 4 (-4%) and ITV (-8%) as overall broadcasters were all down from last March.

In terms of terrestrial channels, BBC One continued its strong form with a y-o-y rise (+5%) for the third consecutive month. This was complemented with BBC Two also gaining +10% y-o-y. ITV1 (-5%), C5 (-5%) and C4 (-7%) all suffered.

In terms of BBC digital channels, BBC News achieved its third best monthly share ever (best ever was August 2011’s 1.7%). BBC Three was up +8% y-o-y, while CBeebies fell -7%. On ITV, the digital channels continued to struggle so far in 2014. ITV2 (-14%), ITV3 (-18%) and CITV (-25%) all dipped heavily. E4 continued to make gains (+6%) for C4 Network, partially offsetting the -12% drop Film4 experienced. For 5, their relatively new channel 5+24 managed 0.1%.
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And here's a look at how the broadcasters have averaged for the first quarter of 2014 vs. the same period last year:

BBC: 35.0% (Jan-March 2013: 32.9%)
ITV: 21.4% (23.2%)
CH4: 11.0% (11.3%)
CH5: 5.8% (6.0%)

So far in 2014, the BBC (+6.4%) is the only network to have grown its share – that is its best Q1 average since 2006 (35.6%). Channel 4 (-2.7%), Channel 5 (-2.8%) and ITV (-7.7%) have all slipped y-o-y so far in 2014. It was easily ITV's worst Q1 market share (previous worst was 22.6% in 2010).

yorkie100

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by jsam93:
“I don't see why Channel 5 needs a rebrand in terms of the logo, imaging etc. The current branding is very strong and effective, IMO.

The only rebrand Channel 5 needs is a slight rebrand in terms of content, which will hopefully come in terms of increased investment from the new owners. I'd like to see them try their hand at more original drama and comedy and make a proper re-entry into the sports rights market. Although, of course, it's difficult for C5 to compete with the might of BBC, Sky, ITV and BT in that department. I don't know all that much about C5's budget and the cost of sports rights, so I'm not sure which competitions rights would be within their reach...”

Do you really think they are going to invest a lot more money? I dont. You may get some Discovery programs turning up which wont be a bad thing and maybe other US stuff too. Doubt we will see any Sky stuff though.

Dancc

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by yorkie100:
“Do you really think they are going to invest a lot more money? I dont. You may get some Discovery programs turning up which wont be a bad thing and maybe other US stuff too. Doubt we will see any Sky stuff though.”

Doubt they are coughing up 350 million quid just to maintain a status quo.

Seems foolish at this stage to rule out Discovery wanting to elevate the channel's profile. More intelligent commentators than I seem to think they are serious.

yorkie100

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by rzt:
“Here's a look at how the four main broadcasters did in the BARB Monthly Shares for March 2014:

BBC
BBC1: 22.6% (March 2013: 21.6%), BBC2: 5.7% (5.2%), BBC3: 1.4% (1.3%), BBC4: 0.9% (0.9%), BBC News: 1.3% (1.1%), BBC RB: 0.1% (0.1%), CBBC: 0.6% (0.6%), CBeebies: 1.3% (1.4%)
--> Total: 33.9% (March 2013: 32.4%)

ITV
ITV(1): 15.5% (16.3%), ITV2: 2.4% (2.8%), ITV3: 2.3% (2.8%), ITV4: 1.1% (1.1%), CITV: 0.3% (0.4%)
--> Total: 21.6% (March 2013: 23.4%)

Channel 4
C4: 5.6% (6.0%), E4: 1.9% (1.8%), Film4: 1.4% (1.6%), More4: 1.4% (1.4%), 4Music: 0.3% (0.3%), 4Seven: 0.3% (0.3%)
--> Total: 10.9% (March 2013: 11.4%)

Channel 5
C5: 4.2% (4.4%), 5*: 0.5% (0.5%), 5USA: 1.0% (1.0%), 5+24: 0.1% (n/a)
--> Total: 5.8% (March 2013: 5.9%)

For the second month in a row, the BBC (+5%) was the only broadcaster up year-on-year for the month, achieving its best March market share since 2007 (34.6%). Channel 5 (-2%), Channel 4 (-4%) and ITV (-8%) as overall broadcasters were all down from last March.

In terms of terrestrial channels, BBC One continued its strong form with a y-o-y rise (+5%) for the third consecutive month. This was complemented with BBC Two also gaining +10% y-o-y. ITV1 (-5%), C5 (-5%) and C4 (-7%) all suffered.

In terms of BBC digital channels, BBC News achieved its third best monthly share ever (best ever was August 2011’s 1.7%). BBC Three was up +8% y-o-y, while CBeebies fell -7%. On ITV, the digital channels continued to struggle so far in 2014. ITV2 (-14%), ITV3 (-18%) and CITV (-25%) all dipped heavily. E4 continued to make gains (+6%) for C4 Network, partially offsetting the -12% drop Film4 experienced. For 5, their relatively new channel 5+24 managed 0.1%.
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And here's a look at how the broadcasters have averaged for the first quarter of 2014 vs. the same period last year:

BBC: 35.0% (Jan-March 2013: 32.9%)
ITV: 21.4% (23.2%)
CH4: 11.0% (11.3%)
CH5: 5.8% (6.0%)

So far in 2014, the BBC (+6.4%) is the only network to have grown its share – that is its best Q1 average since 2006 (35.6%). Channel 4 (-2.7%), Channel 5 (-2.8%) and ITV (-7.7%) have all slipped y-o-y so far in 2014. It was easily ITV's worst Q1 market share (previous worst was 22.6% in 2010).”

Thanks rzt I was wondering if anyone had posted the March shares yet.
Very good for BBC - I had thought there would be at least a slight drop off in March after strong Jan/Feb but if anything the numbers are even better.

Dont really understand why ITV digital channels have suddenely gone off the boil does not bode well for the new channels I would have thought.

aberdaberdonian

15-04-2014

Discovery Communications do have a majority stake in Eurosport though. Depending upon the broadcasting rights, maybe some of that might make its way onto channel 5?

yorkie100

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Doubt they are coughing up 350 million quid just to maintain a status quo.

Seems foolish at this stage to rule out Discovery wanting to elevate the channel's profile. More intelligent commentators than I seem to think they are serious.”

Well lets see if they announce an increase in budget. Whatever happens its going to be very interesting.

rzt

15-04-2014

Also here's an update to the overnight series averages of ITV light entertainment shows so far this year (inc +1) as well as the y-o-y changes:

1 - 11.1m (47%) - Britain's Got Talent*... (+4%)
2 - 6.6m (29%) - Saturday Night Takeaway... (-8%)
3 - 5.3m (21%) - Dancing On Ice... (-17%)
4 - 4.7m (18%) - All Star Family Fortunes... (-14%)
5 - 4.5m (22%) - Amazing Greys*... (NEW)
6 - 4.2m (19%) - Off Their Rockers*... (-15%)
7 - 4.0m (20%) - Catchphrase*... (-12%)
8 - 4.0m (18%) - Big Star's Little Star*... (+2%)
9 - 3.9m (20%) - Surprise, Surprise... (-8%)
10 - 3.9m (18%) - Take Me Out... (-9%)
11 - 3.8m (17%) - Splash!... (-30%)
12 - 3.7m (17%) - The Cube... (-8%)
13 - 3.0m (13%) - Piers Morgan's Life Stories... (-18%)
14 - 2.7m (13%) - The Jonathan Ross Show… (-9%)

* means the series is currently airing so the figures will change

Pretty bad overall, nearly every show down year-on-year. New shows which showed potential last year including Off Their Rockers and Catchphrase haven't returned well.

Previous years' ITV LE overnight averages:
2013:

Spoiler

2012:

Spoiler

2011:

Spoiler

Dancc

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by aberdaberdonian:
“Discovery Communications do have a majority stake in Eurosport though. Depending upon the broadcasting rights, maybe some of that might make its way onto channel 5?”

Trouble is Eurosport shares a lot of things with other channels already. Tour de France instantly springs to mind but apparently ITV has FTA rights sewn up to 2019. Meanwhile some Australian Open coverage has been retained on the BBC but not as much as they used to have.

hyperstarsponge

15-04-2014

The Wright Stuff may change in content.

yorkie100

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by hyperstarsponge:
“The Wright Stuff may change in content.”

By getting rid of Mr Wright perhaps?

SamuelW

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by rzt:
“And here's a look at how the broadcasters have averaged for the first quarter of 2014 vs. the same period last year:

BBC: 35.0% (Jan-March 2013: 32.9%)
ITV: 21.4% (23.2%)
CH4: 11.0% (11.3%)
CH5: 5.8% (6.0%)

So far in 2014, the BBC (+6.4%) is the only network to have grown its share – that is its best Q1 average since 2006 (35.6%). Channel 4 (-2.7%), Channel 5 (-2.8%) and ITV (-7.7%) have all slipped y-o-y so far in 2014. It was easily ITV's worst Q1 market share (previous worst was 22.6% in 2010).”

Concrete evidence that BBC has made a strong start to the year in the ratings. Getting rid of the children's block was the best thing BBC One ever did in ratings terms, but also the strong dramas they aired as well as moving the Voice earlier in the year has all paid off. Proof too about what Ive been saying for months, Itv are doing bad. All their channels losing viewers especially the main one. Reduced weekly reaches, 90pct of their entertainment shows down, many of their dramas down too. Not a good time for the broadcaster right now, according to the actual statistics [no spin, these are the actual independently verified BARB stats].

cylon6

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by hyperstarsponge:
“The Wright Stuff may change in content.”

Originally Posted by yorkie100:
“By getting rid of Mr Wright perhaps? ”

And the show?

Jonwo

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Nothing is confirmed yet. But if it has sold for £350M, Desmond has made one hell of a return on his investment. That's well over 200% up on what he paid for it less than four years ago. So let's have none of this half price nonsense please.”

Desmond bought Channel 5 from RTL for £103m so actually he's probably very happy with the price, £700m was never going to happen.

It'll be interesting what Discovery have in store, I imagine for now, the team at 5 will remain, wonder if Channel 5 will return to using Sky News as their news provider or stick with ITN? I wonder if we'll see Quest rebranded as a 5 channel?

jackc1806

15-04-2014

In terms of sports rights, Channel 5 could go for League Cup/ football league rights? A few years back the BBC shared them with Sky, maybe 5 could share them too?

aberdaberdonian

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by rzt:
“Also here's an update to the overnight series averages of ITV light entertainment shows so far this year (inc +1) as well as the y-o-y changes:

1 - 11.1m (47%) - Britain's Got Talent*... (+4%)
2 - 6.6m (29%) - Saturday Night Takeaway... (-8%)
3 - 5.3m (21%) - Dancing On Ice... (-17%)
4 - 4.7m (18%) - All Star Family Fortunes... (-14%)
5 - 4.5m (22%) - Amazing Greys*... (NEW)
6 - 4.2m (19%) - Off Their Rockers*... (-15%)
7 - 4.0m (20%) - Catchphrase*... (-12%)
8 - 4.0m (18%) - Big Star's Little Star*... (+2%)
9 - 3.9m (20%) - Surprise, Surprise... (-8%)
10 - 3.9m (18%) - Take Me Out... (-9%)
11 - 3.8m (17%) - Splash!... (-30%)
12 - 3.7m (17%) - The Cube... (-8%)
13 - 3.0m (13%) - Piers Morgan's Life Stories... (-18%)
14 - 2.7m (13%) - The Jonathan Ross Show… (-9%)

* means the series is currently airing so the figures will change

Pretty bad overall, nearly every show down year-on-year. New shows which showed potential last year including Off Their Rockers and Catchphrase haven't returned well.
”

Some of those numbers don't make pretty reading for ITV and especially for a certain Mr Morgan.

A 13% share and a drop of 18% vs last year...at that rate he may soon be unemployed on both sides of the Atlantic.

Dancc

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Jonwo:
“Desmond bought Channel 5 from RTL for £103m so actually he's probably very happy with the price, £700m was never going to happen.

It'll be interesting what Discovery have in store, I imagine for now, the team at 5 will remain, wonder if Channel 5 will return to using Sky News as their news provider or stick with ITN? I wonder if we'll see Quest rebranded as a 5 channel?”

Another issue I've just thought of is that both 5 News and milkshake! are broadcast from purpose built studios in the Northern & Shell building AFAIK. I guess 5 News will move back to ITN's headquarters at Gray's Inn Road for the time being.

Steve Williams

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by cylon6:
“"@johnplunkett149: Hit? Wonder of Bees w @Marthakearney 748k viewers #BBC4
Miss? Restaurant Wars, Battle for Manchester, #BBC2 1.2k"”

1200!? That would be a miss. If it's 1.2 million, which I assume it is, I don't see what's wrong with that at 8pm on BBC2.

Originally Posted by yorkie100:
“ITV doing well with their Monday dramas and BBC giving them a free ride airing factual and pretty poor factual at that. Other than Silk have BBC had any drama on at 9pm monday this year?”

I don't know why you say "other than Silk", it was a proper six-part series, and with that and The 7.39 we've had seven weeks of new drama (plus a repeat of New Tricks), and we're only in week sixteen. There's been drama on BBC1 on half of the Mondays this year. Is that a major issue? Another four weeks were devoted to Britain's Great War, a flagship, very expensive series. Before Christmas we had New Tricks and Ripper Street there. I don't know what the obsession is with Monday nights on BBC1, it is a perfectly varied schedule and they're hardly writing the whole thing off like Tuesdays on ITV.

Originally Posted by H of De Vil:
“Surely that's got to be the most new programming in one day they've had?”

Pfft, two daytime series nobody'll notice, a returning daytime show and a revamp. Back in the days when new seasons used to begin without fail in the first week of January and September you'd often see every programme was a new series. Wouldn't be surprised if BBC1 launched just as many new series that day, if we're counting. BBC1 launched three new series in one evening on Saturday.

Anyway, they stopped launching all the new shows at the same time because it generally means if one flops, they all fop, the Beeb proved that last year when they had Animal Antics, Secret Service and Britain's Brightest all launching on the same night, ditto ITV when they had Magic Numbers, Penn and Teller and The Marriage Ref all starting together.

Originally Posted by hyperstarsponge:
“I was thinking Test the Nation could do well as Event TV again, Its something that could work with a smartphone app to play along.”

Hmm, I guess, because when it was at its peak it was all a bit clunky and lots of people presumably couldn't join in because they were watching on analogue and didn't have a fancy phone or computer, which is probably less likely to be the case now. But since then you've got all the compliance hoops you've got to jump through so it might be a massive faff to arrange something like that.

Course, it wasn't just Test The Nation (plus the ITV rip-off) around that time a decade ago, there were other interactive shows on the Beeb, there was one with Des Lynam based around your age, another one with Mike Aspel based around your memory and I think some other ones. There was also Your Country Needs You with Patrick Kielty which was a quiz with the four nations competing, but that was a bit of a disaster. Used to take up a good three hours or so too.

Can I just say, suggesting people should be banned from a thread is the height of bad manners.

Roscoe Barnes

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“As Big Brother season draws nearer for Five, there's double episodes of Castle and Person of Interest from w/c 28th April to ensure the current seasons of both shows are done by mid to late May.”

I hate it when channels start to burn of US dramas in double-bills. Further proof that Person of Interest has been treated horribly by Channel 5.

Originally Posted by lewiep93:
“Overnights.tv ‏@overnightstv 29s
#Undeniable took a slot-winning 5.4m/24.1% for ITV at 9pm, with further 337k/2.1% on ITV+1 http://www.overnights.tv”

Very good again for Undeniable. Odd that the 9PM slot seems to be doing better on a Monday rather a few months ago.

Originally Posted by cylon6:
“"@johnplunkett149: #GameOfThrones 817,000 viewers on @skyatlantic last night, up 1,052% on slot average"”

Superb figure for GoT. Love that % stat!

Originally Posted by Brekkie:
“Also note that Home and Away is having a break in May rather than August this year which seems a bit odd.”

And do we know why this is?! Very odd indeed.

Originally Posted by Philip Wilson:
“Some Game of Thrones ep 1 figures;

Total figs for #GameOfThrones Ep 1. The 2am simulcast got 788k & 1.271m saw it at 9pm. With rpts on wed and sat it got 2.11m cumulatively

There were over 63k downloads of #GameOfThrones Ep1 on people's Sky box with a huge 283k downloads on Sky Go. 37k watched it live on Sky Go”

Turning into an absolute beast is GoT. Everyone is on the bandwagon with this show now. I was one of the people that watched from day one.

Andy23

15-04-2014

And of course Test the Nation started out as a rare event then got more and more spin off versions with thinner and thinner premises, so viewers got bored.

The shear length of time between the first question and last answer also got annoying as it took over the whole evening. It's hard to schedule as well as to play along at home you have to watch the whole thing, so you can't clash with anything remotely major on the other side at any time.

aberdaberdonian

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by yorkie100:
“Thanks rzt I was wondering if anyone had posted the March shares yet.
Very good for BBC - I had thought there would be at least a slight drop off in March after strong Jan/Feb but if anything the numbers are even better.

Dont really understand why ITV digital channels have suddenely gone off the boil does not bode well for the new channels I would have thought.”

The 10% increase by BBC2 looks impressive. A result of Line of Duty being shown or a case that last year's March share underperformed?

Agreed about the ITV digital channels, must be a little troubling for ITV. ITV2's drop could be in part due to their decision to start showing the woeful Two and a Half Men. As for ITV3, I seem to recall someone posting some stats which showed a decline in ITV3's ratings around the same time that the Drama channel started broadcasting on Freeview.

cylon6

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Steve Williams:
“1200!? That would be a miss. If it's 1.2 million, which I assume it is, I don't see what's wrong with that at 8pm on BBC2.”

Possibly because University Challenge was getting 3m there the week before?

Quote:
“I don't know why you say "other than Silk", it was a proper six-part series, and with that and The 7.39 we've had seven weeks of new drama (plus a repeat of New Tricks), and we're only in week sixteen. There's been drama on BBC1 on half of the Mondays this year. Is that a major issue? Another four weeks were devoted to Britain's Great War, a flagship, very expensive series. Before Christmas we had New Tricks and Ripper Street there. I don't know what the obsession is with Monday nights on BBC1, it is a perfectly varied schedule and they're hardly writing the whole thing off like Tuesdays on ITV.”

The factual that BBC1 put on Mondays at 9pm isn't much different to the factual ITV put on Tuesday at 9pm. And having similar poor results. BBC1 hasn't won Monday at 9pm since The 7.39.

Quote:
“Pfft, two daytime series nobody'll notice, a returning daytime show and a revamp. Back in the days when new seasons used to begin without fail in the first week of January and September you'd often see every programme was a new series. Wouldn't be surprised if BBC1 launched just as many new series that day, if we're counting. BBC1 launched three new series in one evening on Saturday.”

And quite an uninspiring daytime line-up if you ask me.

Quote:
“Anyway, they stopped launching all the new shows at the same time because it generally means if one flops, they all fop, the Beeb proved that last year when they had Animal Antics, Secret Service and Britain's Brightest all launching on the same night, ditto ITV when they had Magic Numbers, Penn and Teller and The Marriage Ref all starting together.”

I think sometimes staggered launches for series on a night works better. Not always but sometimes.

Quote:
“Hmm, I guess, because when it was at its peak it was all a bit clunky and lots of people presumably couldn't join in because they were watching on analogue and didn't have a fancy phone or computer, which is probably less likely to be the case now. But since then you've got all the compliance hoops you've got to jump through so it might be a massive faff to arrange something like that.

Course, it wasn't just Test The Nation (plus the ITV rip-off) around that time a decade ago, there were other interactive shows on the Beeb, there was one with Des Lynam based around your age, another one with Mike Aspel based around your memory and I think some other ones. There was also Your Country Needs You with Patrick Kielty which was a quiz with the four nations competing, but that was a bit of a disaster. Used to take up a good three hours or so too.”

Test The Nation worked well on Saturdays and on Mondays before Corrie at 8.30pm were a permanent fixture. Reminded me of the old "So You Think You Know About...." quizzes on BBC1 that Cliff Michelmore and I think Magnus Magnusson used to do. You got a scoresheet in the Radio Times for them too.

Quote:
“Can I just say, suggesting people should be banned from a thread is the height of bad manners.”

I agree. And too many people running to teacher because they can't shut someone up. And over nonsense rather than anything serious. Utter nonsense!

Steve Williams

15-04-2014

Originally Posted by Andy23:
“And of course Test the Nation started out as a rare event then got more and more spin off versions with thinner and thinner premises, so viewers got bored.”

Well, it certainly did alright for the first few years, the first one on a Saturday in May 2002 absolutely thrashed Ant and Dec's Likely Lads thing and it was a very reliable performer for a couple of years. Course, ITV did their rip-off version, one of which was a spoiler for a planned Test The Nation on the same topic (which they never did in the end).

Here's a list of all of them -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_the_Nation#UK
At its peak you got four a year, usually an IQ test, one at Christmas and two others. The one problem after 2004 was that you had Match of the Day most Saturdays and you'll see most of the later ones are in weekends when there were internationals (although at least one was on a Sunday), then as the novelty wore off, they got less frequent and that last one, a year after the previous edition, was on a Bank Holiday Monday and it began at 6.30, far earlier than any of the others, and it was pretty obvious it was being wound down.

Philip Wilson

15-04-2014

ITV2 has suffered with terrible US Sitcom figures, a declining Celeb Juice/ Towie/ Magaluf Weekender, a woeful return for the Big Reunion. Along with new flop shows from Mark Wright and Tom Daley it hasn't been a good start to 2014 for them along with ITV. ITV3 is a little more puzzling, maybe a knock on effect from Drama launching, maybe also feeling the effects of a stronger drama slate from the BBC than usual?

It will only get worse for ITV2 once the new ITV Be launches as the reality side has been rating well in the daytimes especially.

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