I started this debate when I re-watched the clip from Journey's End of the Crucible being blown-up, that I posted in the Best Special Effects Since 2005 thread.

Now I've started one up to see what people actually think. I totally forgot that the Clone version of DT classes himself as a Doctor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYL...etailpage#t=28

Then about ten minutes before the end of 'JE', we, the fans, find out that he's only got one heart, and cannot regenerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcqd...etailpage#t=38

So, do we call him a Doctor? It's a tricky one.

Also, in the Series 6 two part story The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People, a clone of Matt's Doctor is made from all the gooey flesh that we see in the big tub.

Is he a Doctor, or do we not bother with that, either?

10.5 is a regeneration of the Doctor, and he's a Doctor, but he isn't The Doctor. He's a pseudo-Doctor.

The flesh version is a perfect duplicate, so he is The Doctor in a way that 10.5 isn't, but he's not a regeneration of the Doctor, and he didn't last long. He was a temporary projection of the Doctor.

I see the 'flesh' Doctor more as an avatar than a Doctor.

As for the meta-crisis Doctor, I think its important to remember that he's got a LOT of Donna in their too. So rather than being another Doctor, I see him more as the Doctor and Donna's offspring.

So Amy and Rory ended up as his parents-in-law and Rose as his daughter-in-law!

lol how relationships end up so complicated!

He's a bi-product of the regeneration from "Tenth Doctor(i) (Eleventh Incarnation)" to "Tenth Doctor(ii) (Twelfth Incarnation)".
The extra "Incarnation" isn't the "Human Doctor", it's the version of the Tenth Doctor that we see from Journey's End to The End Of Time

Anyway, you're right, he isn't "The Doctor" in the same way the Flesh Doctor is because he has the human bit of his personality from Donna as well.

^^^This^^^


You never know though, there may have been something survived among the gloop .... and if he IS a perfect duplicate of The Doctor mentally, then he would also have the potential for the DreamLord/Valeyard to be in his mind somewhere



....but anyway...

No, they're not Doctors...

To date there are 13 "Doctors" (1st-8th, War Doctor, 9th-11th, 12th),one of whom, the Tenth, occupies two "incarnations" (eleventh and twelfth).
...so the 12th Doctor = 13th Regeneration = 14th Incarnation.

The following are mentally or physically part of, or copied from, the Doctor but are not "Regenerations", "Incarnations" or "Doctors"...

The Watcher - future projection
Valeyard - future distillation of the Doctor's dark side
Jenny - cloned "Daughter"
Human Doctor - human-timelord hybrid mind in human body
Dream Lord - psychic manifestation of the Doctor's dark side
Flesh Doctor - duplicate of 11's mind in a Flesh body

No. One of them was a waste of a regeneration. The other was a clone. Neither were Doctors.

No. I have no desire to waste any more time on a plotline that finished two years before it ended.

The only way you can convince me to watch more of him is to turn him into the Valeyard, and just entirely drop Rose with no chance of her returning, then I'd be willing to try it.

Other than that, he is a waste of a regeneration. I'd rather have more War Doctor. Seriously, he was cool.

No, they are just Doctor copies

He was wasn't he

This.

They are no more "real" than the shrunken versions of the Doctor and Leela injected into the Doctor's brain in The Invisible Enemy were "real". Likewise, Dream Lord, ther Watcher, the Valeyard, etc etc.

Yes in fact he's half human.... Now there's a thought.

...on his Mother's side