Why am I not surprised?

You may be right they just are lazy and start the week thinking 1 whats Hayley's dance routine going to be? , then 2 its time for another trick with wow factor - what can we give Suzanne? , and 3 Its difficult finding the right routine for Beth that explores her physical ability, but also gives her a story within her acting range - so lets not bother

The unfairness though worked both ways - aided by the bad judging. You had Suzanne stuck with a dull routine some weeks, because Hayley had the only female decent dance routine. In others, she was given some move that was far more difficult than anything Hayley can do - and then criticised for doing it cautiously......or not doing more similar moves. There was no reason why you couldn't have asked what easier dance number to give Suzanne, or actually worked more at using Beth's skills. Hayley hasn't had anything Suzanne couldn't dance - Suzanne has done the bigger stage dance roles. Bonnie's done more still. Beth they just seem to have a failure of imagination with - there's only flashes of how her gymnastics skills could be used, and rare weeks when someone comes up with a character that fits her as well as Hayley fits the nore stereotypical roles.

Its odder because Hayley's strongest, Charleston, number, this series had more skating, bigger lifts and more of them and was fast. Suzanne or Bonnie could do it - perhaps with a bigger lift or two, but its a pretty good routine , although it might might need an actor to perfom it. You are right, I think, that, since, she's being done things that look more like Bonnie's series 1 routines , or her own from pre Jai Ho days. What her routines have had is a decent role to act - but, as a judge, you need to be careful how you reward that - particularly when you then go and critiicise other people for not acting weaker roles as well, or the people doing the more difficult stuff - for not doing even more of it.

For a lot of viewers (not just on here)she is perceived as being given preferential treatment by the panel in terms of comments and marks, and by T&D in terms of the choreography she has been given to perform. Those two facts alone are what persuades me to vote for the others - and i'm pretty sure that holds true for a lot of other voters too. You would have thought that the panel/ producers would have learnt by now that the public don't like to see unfairness, and a "Judge's Pet" won't win unless they really ARE the best skater there.

Bonnie didn't win series 1 despite wonderful performances - because the public preferred the two celebs who actually did a reasonable amount of skating in their routines,

Clare didn't win series 2 despite being the judges favourite - although it was close between her and Kyran as both were pretty good....

and Matt L didn't win last year - because the public could see he wasn't as good as the panel insisted he was, and could see how good Beth was with no recognition!

unfortunately - even if Hayley does end up in the skate off - with the showstopping jai Ho routine as her save me skate she will wipe the floor with anyone else - unless she falls flat on her face

She also seems to be a bit of a marmite character - people seem to either love her or hate her - and I'd hazard a guess that a lot of their votes are actually being given to Dan (as he has a huge fanbase in his own right) rather than Hayley. It would have been very interesting to see how her vote held up with a different partner...

Interesting that in duel week Suzanne was considered top girl and pitted against Ray yet in the team week Hayley was given the girl's captaincy - giving her the opportunity to play, yet again, to her strengths; all arms and no skating skills.

I wonder what would have happened if Beth or Suzanne had assumed the captaincy and required Hayley to perform their lifts, tricks and skating speed etc.

The DS report of a Suzanne interview suggests that Suzanne argued for more difficulty, but that wasn't allowed - and it looks to have ended up as daughter of jai Ho. If true, it confirms that issue. We don't know though how it arrived there. Did Hayley argue for Jai Ho light, or did T and D (if it was them ) just think lets do something that Hayley can do - lets do something like Jai Ho - and impose that?

There's other questions too .

How come the girls went for synchronised dancing - while the boys were allowed a routine that let Ray do one big move, and Sam , and Kyran, throw up bigger looking lifts? Why is one team allowwed to play more to its individual strengths?

Why was Kyran congratulated out for coming out and performing, while Beth got no praise for keeping up with Hayley and Suzanne, who both trained as dancers, in a dance routine?

And the biggy. What on earth is going on with the judging? After ignoring difficult moves and tricks, and throwing marks at well performed dance routines, for weeks , the judges turn around for this one and give the vote to shambolic synchronisation, more tricks and raw enthusiasm - and ignore the better performed slicker dance routine. As judging goes, its about as random as it could be, or fixed.

You've hit the nail on the head FIXED !!!

I agree, it has to be fixed.

Excellent questions!

The first point - Beth and Suzanne was good skaters, but they couldn't do a routine to showcase that as Hayley wouldn't be able to keep up. So they had to do something to suit her. Unfortunately, they focus on 'dance' for every Hayley routine so for us as viewers it's a case of 'we've seen this before'.

The second point, I thought maybe they chose the boys for the team challenge to try and save Sam from another skate off. But I don't think they expected Kyran and Suzanne to land there. Maybe they expected Hayley and Beth? Against Hayley's Jai Ho, would they have eliminated Beth?

It will be interesting to see how they score Hayley and Beth in the solo skate. Against the other four, Hayley should be fifth, so we wait to see

Nicky's statement that Suzanne and Kyran shouldn't have been in the skate off would have to imply he was thinking of Hayley and Beth to be there. Sam did well, Ray is Ray. Karen could always decide for Kyran if he was in the skate off over either female - he did have a good routine and skated well.

Its just so bizarre though. 4 of the 6 competitors nearest to Ray in abilities were female. The top females bar one are doing the tour - Sam isn't, leaving only Kyran and Ray. Why would you want to get rid of top females, with bigger votes, and put your best female contender to Ray at risk , and then out, with a twist - just to save Sam or Kyran? Why try and remove Beth - if she's top of the votes you can't . If she's second, why does it matter if she beats anyone else into coming second?

Its either just an addiction to silly twists, or lazily just repeating last year's format. Or they don't care at all, or they really want certain people in the last 3. As we never found out what the Matt L super hype was about last year, we may never know.

I think that one of the reasons why Hayley was more popular here during her own series is that, back then, the "model" most people had of how a contestant would try to impress without being good at skating was lifts -- especially lifts -- and being pushed or pulled or held by their partner.

Hayley's routines didn't fit that pattern -- indeed, she could even do some solo skating and spins -- and people weren't so aware of the ways in which a good dancer could get dance moves onto the ice without really combining them with skating. (On DOI, dancing with toe picks was pioneered by for for Ray, but since he was also strong at skating, most people didn't question the "pick dancing" back then.)

'Jai Ho' was a very impressive routine, and it could require an effort, and some re-watching, to notice for instance that the spin was from a standing start, or how much of the dancing was from the waist up while either not moving across the ice or continuing an already established glide.

Also, when people had already decided that they liked Haley, or were impressed by her performance and didn't care much about skating, they tended not to be very receptive to the idea that routines based on arm dancing and pick dancing were questionable.

People could feel that Hayley was legitimately the best even though she wasn't all that strong at skating.

But now, she's up against better skaters than she was then, and people are more aware of the ways a dancer can get impressive-seeming dance moves onto the ice in non-skating ways.

But that was, in effect, answered in a part of thenetworkbabe's post you didn't quote:

She reminds me of Bonnie - carried round the ice, fancy hand movements and then a few fancy lifts where she just has to look pretty and gurn! Not exactly challenging!

Bonnie's top lifts are nothing like Hayley's. Hayley, or Dan, has a smaller repertoire, at lower levels of difficulty, as well as avoiding heights. Bonnie was the first I agree to be fobbed off with simple lifts because they didn't bother giving her anything better, but taht wasn't her beiong the limiting factor. Bonnie, Beth and Suzanne have all added to tehir repertoire more this series too.

The marking with hayley is just inconsistent. One minute they note lack of difficulty, Then they reward another good dance routine with basic lifts without said difficulty. They also fail on the basics of fairness. If other people can do simpler dance routines as well, or better, they should get a share of them.. And if other people get new, difficult, moves everyone should be offered an equal move or start with their mark adjusted downwards, accordingly.

Wel she's clearly not that unpopular she's not been in the skate off yet she's just not that popular on here .

Yip, exactly what I said on the first page. Online forums is just a tiny minority of the public. She still has massive support..she's just very disliked on here.

It showed she is not as good a skater when skating on her own. I am confused why she gets the high marks, also I think it should have been Beth with Dan, she was the last winner. Ray is fantastic.

Haley is still loved by the public YAY.

Well done Hayley....and Dan. Onwards and upwards now!!!

I love both Hayley & Beth however the partnership between Dan & Hayley is much stronger than Beth & Dan, a lot more memorable too. Plus Dan has been friends with Hayley since their teens so I guess it was an obvious choice.

Beth and her new partner have a lot more chemistry together than her & dan ever had IMO.

Probably the emmerdale following

Hayley gets the crowd pleasing routines week after week.... She gets the memorable music and costumes and gets away with pratting about on her toepicks or being lifted and carried by Dan.

Her solo skate last night showed just how weak she is as a skater compared to the others - her big move - the multiple spin - she can only do from a standing start while the others went into theirs from a movement, her jump was pathetic and she was the shakiest of the lot....... And as for her big thing of "performance" - as Robin pointed out - the performance with cheesy grins etc didn't match up with the lyrics.

She should never have got the 10s for her duet routine - it was good - but not that good, but then they are doing their damnedest to get Beth out so had to keep Hayley's scores up.

There have been a lot 'great' singers in the past who actually haven't got 'great' voices but they know how to put a song across to an audience and they are 'great' performers.


Hayley is not the greatest skater, agreed but she puts in a good performance and that is why she does well with the public.


It's all incidental anyway because we all know Ray will win.

Agree on all counts.

Her solo skate exposed her woeful lack of skating skills and once she was with her partner she barely left his arms.

I could understand to a degree high marks from Jason and Ashley - they're looking at the performance - but what the hell were the alleged skating Robin and Karen looking at?

Farcical.