Wiring for speakers in an extention

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 10:20

Hello

I was wondering if anyone can help me. Im having an extension built and I need some help in regards to wiring. I want to put in place speaker wiring for 5.1 surround. I will have to wait a while for the equipment as I will be skint for a long time

So the issue is this. The living room is a large box and we can't decide the best place for the tv to go at the moment.

What im going to do is build to sets of points to give us the option of moving the room around, so two sets of sat cables, network, aerial coax etc.

With the speakers is there a way of running the cables back into a switching box so that I can select which inputs are in use. I would also have to wire it up to allow for the front and rear speakers to be swapped around depending on what side of the room we are using.

Many Thanks

Stuart

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 10:52

Were you planning to run wires up the wall to where you would mount the speakers from some central connection point? Or rather two connection points?

If so there is a possible way to wire it up without needing switches and still give you the ability to swap the room layout round.

Get a pair of connector plates like this

http://www.cables4all.co.uk/51-speak...fer-1893-p.asp

Put one plate on each wall where the speakers will go. Run wires from the Front Left/Right terminals on each plate to the speaker positions on the wall.

Also run four cables under the floor between the two plates. these should be connected as follows

Plate A Rear L --> Plate B Front L
Plate A Rear R --> Plate B Front R
Plate B Rear L --> Plate A Front L
Plate B Rear R --> Plate A Front R

You will see from this that there will be two wires attached to each plate Front pair, one to the speaker position and one to the opposite wall plate. This is deliberate.

If you have the AV amp at Plate A you plug the speaker outputs into that plate according to the labels on the plate. The Plate A Rear terminals then interconnect to the Plate B Front terminals and hence the attached speakers.

Provided you only connect an AV amp to one plate at a time it should all work OK.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 11:04

Hi Chris

Thanks for the detailed answer, much appreciated. Yes the plan was to have to sets of connection points, going to the speakers but only one set in use at any time

2Bdecided · 19-02-2014, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartPetty

So the issue is this. The living room is a large box and we can't decide the best place for the tv to go at the moment.

What im going to do is build to sets of points to give us the option of moving the room around, so two sets of sat cables, network, aerial coax etc.

Don't worry Stuart - the other half will decide on a third location once all the work is complete.

Cheers,
David.

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 11:26

Just to clarify.

All the speaker cables and the inter plate wiring attaches to the rear of the wall plate. So you would channel the speaker cables into the wall either emerging from the plaster or use a plate like this

http://www.cables4all.co.uk/speaker-...late-501-p.asp

behind the speaker locations and plug the speakers in using banana plugs.

You then use short hook up cables from the speaker terminals on the amp with banana plugs on the end to plug into the sockets on the wall plates.

That way you don't see any visible cables running down the wall. Which may keep any Mrs Petty happy

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 11:32

Yes that's it, all nicely hidden away keeping the Mrs happy. Now all I need to do is get the budget approved for the Av receiver and speakers

Do you know what the optimal height is to install speakers on the wall for home cinema?

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartPetty

Yes that's it, all nicely hidden away keeping the Mrs happy. Now all I need to do is get the budget approved for the Av receiver and speakers

Do you know what the optimal height is to install speakers on the wall for home cinema?

Ideally the fronts should be at about ear level but the rears can be higher. Which in this instance means both sets should be around ear level. Seeing as either pair could be front or rear.

The left and right in the pair should be about 6-8ft apart with the TV dead centre of the fronts.

Don't stick them up at ceiling height or in the corners of the room. This will compromise sound quality to varying degrees.

As for budget. If you want a proper grown ups AV system for not a huge amount of dosh then this system will fit the bill nicely

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...99/yama-yht199

Yamaha do some very decent kit. You could do far worse for 200 quid.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 11:56

Yes David i have that horrible feeling, shes already driving the architect mad with last minute "small changes"

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 11:59

Ive heard really good things about Yamaha, although the Mrs works for Sony so there stuff gets priority in the house.

I think a trip to Richer sounds is in order. Thanks for all the advice and taking time to get back to me, much appreciated

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 12:10

Well if it has to be Sony...

http://www.richersounds.com/package/...eals/pah011579

Nearly 700 quid though. Which might not go down so well with Mrs Petty.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 12:15

Still at £700 its a good price, its amazing what you can get these days for the money. I spent close to that for an out of the box system years ago which sounded okay but nothing compared to this I imagine

If I had a budget a little over that price would you advise spending more on the speakers and a cheaper amp that I could upgrade over time or the other way round

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 13:05

For a bit over 700 quid I would sugest something like this

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...QUEID=54545535

It is very close to the system I have (same speakers earlier model receiver).

If SWMBO wants a less bulky receiver then try her on this...

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...QUEID=91132947

The Q-Acoustics speakers are very good. Onkyo and Marantz are respectable makes. And the service I received from these guys was very good too - no problem recommending them.

There are no hard and fast rules. Spending a slightly higher proportion on the budget on speakers is not a bad idea if you plan to upgrade the amp.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 13:34

I was just looking at Q- Acoustics

These in particular http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-q2000i-pk-whi

I think they are a slightly newer model, because they are white and will blend in easier with the walls making the Mrs happier

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartPetty

I was just looking at Q- Acoustics

These in particular http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-q2000i-pk-whi

I think they are a slightly newer model, because they are white and will blend in easier with the walls making the Mrs happier

Same model. They have always come in four finishes, matt black, gloss black, walnut and white.

You can get either of the systems I linked to above with white speakers

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...UEID=667676767

and

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...UEID=704264179

And not a huge lot more than Richersounds do just the speakers for.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 13:51

That's great I didn't see the colour options before. Think I know where to go now to buy, Thanks again

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 13:55

By the way. I would suggest you get the speaker wall brackets as well if you plan bolting them to the wall. Though I notice they don't say if it's 19 quid per single bracket, per pair of brackets or for all four.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 14:02

Yes its a little confusing, ive just emailed them to find out, im guessing its per pair

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 14:41

Thats for each bracket

However the listing is wrong and the real price is £14

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/staf...yLink=1&nexd=1

Deacon1972 · 19-02-2014, 16:28

If going for the 2000i series I would give consideration to the main speakers being stand mounted, the reason being they are rear ported, they will work better away from walls. Of course you have the option to bung the ports if you wall mount them, especially if they sound boomy, but more often than not I have found speakers can sound a little boxy when ports are bunged.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 17:10

Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ?

Stuart

chrisjr · 19-02-2014, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartPetty

Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ?

Stuart

The speakers have a hole in the rear panel. It's not some random hole though but specifically arranged to enhance the performance of the speaker, particularly the bass end.

However sticking it too close to a wall can affect the way the port works to the detriment of the sound quality. Q Acoustics provide foam plugs that you can stuff into the port to modify how it behaves which in theory reduce the effects of wall mounting.

You would hope that as they provide wall brackets as an optional accessory that they have actually tested the effect of wall mounting on the sound quality.

Mine are on stands well away from the wall so I can't comment on how they sound up close to the wall.

StuartPetty · 19-02-2014, 17:26

Guess ill just have to try it out and see how it goes, thanks for clearing that up for me. I do like the look of the brackets, they appear to create a floating effect off of the wall.

Deacon1972 · 19-02-2014, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartPetty

Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ?

Stuart

The 2010i's are not a sealed unit, they are a bass reflex system, basically the have a hole in the back of the speaker housing, main driver and port tubes are matched together to extend bass performance.

When a rear ported speaker is placed too close to a wall it can upset the airflow and can affect it's performance. You can bung them up but this can affect how the speaker sounds. You can get speakers that have front ports, the q acoustic 1000i series for example.

19-02-2014, 10:20	#1
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Wiring for speakers in an extention Hello I was wondering if anyone can help me. Im having an extension built and I need some help in regards to wiring. I want to put in place speaker wiring for 5.1 surround. I will have to wait a while for the equipment as I will be skint for a long time So the issue is this. The living room is a large box and we can't decide the best place for the tv to go at the moment. What im going to do is build to sets of points to give us the option of moving the room around, so two sets of sat cables, network, aerial coax etc. With the speakers is there a way of running the cables back into a switching box so that I can select which inputs are in use. I would also have to wire it up to allow for the front and rear speakers to be swapped around depending on what side of the room we are using. Many Thanks Stuart

19-02-2014, 10:52	#2
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Were you planning to run wires up the wall to where you would mount the speakers from some central connection point? Or rather two connection points? If so there is a possible way to wire it up without needing switches and still give you the ability to swap the room layout round. Get a pair of connector plates like this http://www.cables4all.co.uk/51-speak...fer-1893-p.asp Put one plate on each wall where the speakers will go. Run wires from the Front Left/Right terminals on each plate to the speaker positions on the wall. Also run four cables under the floor between the two plates. these should be connected as follows Plate A Rear L --> Plate B Front L Plate A Rear R --> Plate B Front R Plate B Rear L --> Plate A Front L Plate B Rear R --> Plate A Front R You will see from this that there will be two wires attached to each plate Front pair, one to the speaker position and one to the opposite wall plate. This is deliberate. If you have the AV amp at Plate A you plug the speaker outputs into that plate according to the labels on the plate. The Plate A Rear terminals then interconnect to the Plate B Front terminals and hence the attached speakers. Provided you only connect an AV amp to one plate at a time it should all work OK.

19-02-2014, 11:04	#3
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Hi Chris Thanks for the detailed answer, much appreciated. Yes the plan was to have to sets of connection points, going to the speakers but only one set in use at any time

19-02-2014, 11:26	#4
2Bdecided Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 4,391	Quote: Originally Posted by StuartPetty So the issue is this. The living room is a large box and we can't decide the best place for the tv to go at the moment. What im going to do is build to sets of points to give us the option of moving the room around, so two sets of sat cables, network, aerial coax etc. Don't worry Stuart - the other half will decide on a third location once all the work is complete. Cheers, David.

19-02-2014, 11:32	#6
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Yes that's it, all nicely hidden away keeping the Mrs happy. Now all I need to do is get the budget approved for the Av receiver and speakers Do you know what the optimal height is to install speakers on the wall for home cinema?

19-02-2014, 11:46	#7
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by StuartPetty Yes that's it, all nicely hidden away keeping the Mrs happy. Now all I need to do is get the budget approved for the Av receiver and speakers Do you know what the optimal height is to install speakers on the wall for home cinema? Ideally the fronts should be at about ear level but the rears can be higher. Which in this instance means both sets should be around ear level. Seeing as either pair could be front or rear. The left and right in the pair should be about 6-8ft apart with the TV dead centre of the fronts. Don't stick them up at ceiling height or in the corners of the room. This will compromise sound quality to varying degrees. As for budget. If you want a proper grown ups AV system for not a huge amount of dosh then this system will fit the bill nicely http://www.richersounds.com/product/...99/yama-yht199 Yamaha do some very decent kit. You could do far worse for 200 quid.

19-02-2014, 11:56	#8
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Yes David i have that horrible feeling, shes already driving the architect mad with last minute "small changes"

19-02-2014, 11:59	#9
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Ive heard really good things about Yamaha, although the Mrs works for Sony so there stuff gets priority in the house. I think a trip to Richer sounds is in order. Thanks for all the advice and taking time to get back to me, much appreciated

19-02-2014, 12:10	#10
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Well if it has to be Sony... http://www.richersounds.com/package/...eals/pah011579 Nearly 700 quid though. Which might not go down so well with Mrs Petty.

19-02-2014, 12:15	#11
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Still at £700 its a good price, its amazing what you can get these days for the money. I spent close to that for an out of the box system years ago which sounded okay but nothing compared to this I imagine If I had a budget a little over that price would you advise spending more on the speakers and a cheaper amp that I could upgrade over time or the other way round

19-02-2014, 13:05	#12
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	For a bit over 700 quid I would sugest something like this http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...QUEID=54545535 It is very close to the system I have (same speakers earlier model receiver). If SWMBO wants a less bulky receiver then try her on this... http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...QUEID=91132947 The Q-Acoustics speakers are very good. Onkyo and Marantz are respectable makes. And the service I received from these guys was very good too - no problem recommending them. There are no hard and fast rules. Spending a slightly higher proportion on the budget on speakers is not a bad idea if you plan to upgrade the amp.

19-02-2014, 13:34	#13
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	I was just looking at Q- Acoustics These in particular http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-q2000i-pk-whi I think they are a slightly newer model, because they are white and will blend in easier with the walls making the Mrs happier

19-02-2014, 13:47	#14
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by StuartPetty I was just looking at Q- Acoustics These in particular http://www.richersounds.com/product/...-q2000i-pk-whi I think they are a slightly newer model, because they are white and will blend in easier with the walls making the Mrs happier Same model. They have always come in four finishes, matt black, gloss black, walnut and white. You can get either of the systems I linked to above with white speakers http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...UEID=667676767 and http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.p...UEID=704264179 And not a huge lot more than Richersounds do just the speakers for.

19-02-2014, 13:51	#15
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	That's great I didn't see the colour options before. Think I know where to go now to buy, Thanks again

19-02-2014, 13:55	#16
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	By the way. I would suggest you get the speaker wall brackets as well if you plan bolting them to the wall. Though I notice they don't say if it's 19 quid per single bracket, per pair of brackets or for all four.

19-02-2014, 14:02	#17
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Yes its a little confusing, ive just emailed them to find out, im guessing its per pair

19-02-2014, 14:41	#18
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Thats for each bracket However the listing is wrong and the real price is £14 http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/staf...yLink=1&nexd=1

19-02-2014, 16:28	#19
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	If going for the 2000i series I would give consideration to the main speakers being stand mounted, the reason being they are rear ported, they will work better away from walls. Of course you have the option to bung the ports if you wall mount them, especially if they sound boomy, but more often than not I have found speakers can sound a little boxy when ports are bunged.

19-02-2014, 17:10	#20
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ? Stuart

19-02-2014, 17:22	#21
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by StuartPetty Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ? Stuart The speakers have a hole in the rear panel. It's not some random hole though but specifically arranged to enhance the performance of the speaker, particularly the bass end. However sticking it too close to a wall can affect the way the port works to the detriment of the sound quality. Q Acoustics provide foam plugs that you can stuff into the port to modify how it behaves which in theory reduce the effects of wall mounting. You would hope that as they provide wall brackets as an optional accessory that they have actually tested the effect of wall mounting on the sound quality. Mine are on stands well away from the wall so I can't comment on how they sound up close to the wall.

19-02-2014, 17:26	#22
StuartPetty Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12	Guess ill just have to try it out and see how it goes, thanks for clearing that up for me. I do like the look of the brackets, they appear to create a floating effect off of the wall.

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Wiring for speakers in an extention

19-02-2014, 17:31	#23
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by StuartPetty Thanks for that, excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by rear ported ? Stuart The 2010i's are not a sealed unit, they are a bass reflex system, basically the have a hole in the back of the speaker housing, main driver and port tubes are matched together to extend bass performance. When a rear ported speaker is placed too close to a wall it can upset the airflow and can affect it's performance. You can bung them up but this can affect how the speaker sounds. You can get speakers that have front ports, the q acoustic 1000i series for example.