I suspect that's to avoid having two channels with the same name on different muxes with different content. *Shouldn't* cause problems but it might be some boxes consider channels with the same name as duplicates.

There were a lot of duplicate names during September due to LCN changes and MUX moves, I don't know whether that caused any problems that were solely due to the duplication.

Boxes shouldn't use a name match to identify duplicate channels, that would be really poorly coded firmware. The correct method of identifying duplicates is by comparing the service number or SID.

Using different names, however, will allow certain boxes to continue to auto-delete the MHEG-IC channel by using a channel name delete list. Which is a method used by Humax custom firmware.

Is this proof that freeview is becoming cost effective for the small broadcasters and maybe it was getting expensive broadcasting online to the audience number a they were getting. It's a positive freeview move.

very disappointed that you need a Freeview HD TV to get this channel, I got quite excited when it was announced as Channel 71

Perhaps. Though Motors is hardly small when you consider they're Europe-wide broadcaster.


They're still continuing with the IPTV service for those who can't get COM7 (and for when the DTT channel is off-air on weekdays), so it's hardly a cost move. In fact it's quite the opposite - the increase in viewers from their IPTV venture clearly made them think it's worth the money to broadcast on the more traditional DTT.

From Frederic Viger, Motors TV’s Head of Programming and Acquisitions:

Also: http://www.arqiva.com/case-studies/m...tv-on-freeview


Good point.

But don't the pay per viewer on connect? If too many were watching in effect this could have made them quite expensive.

It is a shame its HD sets only however maybe anorher sports channel and some other channels making the move could be the push required for people to get new sets which means more SD channels better encoded in the space we have now. In effect free view could double in size if channels wanted the space.

These problems are invariably caused by LCNs being a bolt-on feature and not part of the DVB standards. The LCNs are taken from the NIT tables rather than PMT tables. As channels will be scanned in different orders in each transmitter region, there is no easy way to get around this. The TV will see a new LCN allocated in the NIT but will disregard it and throw the channel into the 800 range simply because it has already stored a channel with that LCN.

Actually Freesat work around it pretty well by having a master table and not using the DVB-bolt on LCNs...

Alas with the disparate nature of the DVB-T network it's much harder - although having a central list with the ability to flick between regions would have been much better

e.g. you run a scan - it finds the SIDs for the "East Midlands" and "Yorkshire (East)" regions, asks for your primary of the two the 1. shows BBC ONE EastMids but when viewing 1. there is an option to switch regions (which is what my old Setpal used to do actually). Freeview HD manages to do something similar too. The moving the old SIDs to new LCNs (as opposed to just getting rid) does seem to help newer stuff (even pre-DSO Freeview TV sets) eventually shuffle everything round.

Me too from a timeshift point of view, although we have a connected HDTV, our PVR is SD and many of the live races clash with family viewing priorities.

What is different about the SD channels on COM7 that means an SD box cannot see them ?

The use DVB-T2 modulation so require a new tuner, and also MPEG4 video which requires a different codec. Your SD only PVR will only have a DVB-T tuner, and probably only be able to decode MPEG2 streams (some later ones can handle MPEG4 over DVB-T as used in some other countries).

The advantage of coming onto the scene at a later date. Freeview could have done something similar, say, allocating channel numbers from a customised BAT rather than using NorDig descriptors. That wouldn't have worked on legacy equipment and it's probably not a good idea to have 2 different methods of allocating channel numbers running in tandem. So we are left with a compromise using bolt-on descriptors and various manufacturers of FreeviewHD equipment using slightly different methods to deal with channel number changes.

I wonder how it has gone down this weekend? Seems some people are annoyed they need a HD set and others that it's really limited where it is broadcast, or not as is the case.

Does prove that more SD channels of fairly decent content will drive take up of new kit. I guess this could be food for thought for the future if more channels could be attracted.

Channels, no doubt, find the reduced rates for carriage on these multiplexes attractive but would possibly balk at the thought of funding carriage on a more widely available multiplex. So, perhaps those complaining should realise that, if the only option was to use a more widely available mux, the service might not be available at all.

The food for thought that viewers are willing to purchase kit to view these additional channels should be measured against the disappointment these people may face in future. When the temporary multiplexes close and services are transferred to the mainstream multiplexes using DVB-T2, some of the channels attracted by the reduced rates of the temporary mux. may not be willing, or able, to fund carriage rates to reach a wider audience.

When the main multiplexes move to DVB-T2 it's likely local TV multiplexes will as well, and there'll be room for more channels on there thanks to H264.

That's debatable. If the move to DVB-T2 comes as a result of the loss of 700MHz, it will take with it some of the channels currently used for local TV. The need for lower powered local multiplexes with a more robust form of modulation will be even greater than it is now.

In any event, moving to local multiplexes would do nothing to stop complaints from people annoyed at not being able to receive these channels. Neither would it improve the resources of these channels, allowing them to afford national coverage.

Me too, but then I remembered that the new Freeview PVR I had just bought had HD capability.

I'm assuming with the better compression methods we could easily see double the number of SD channels per mulitplex? You could be right but any 2nd digital switch over will be miles away as governments won't want to force a swap just yet.

Governments are already forcing swaps - IIRC Germany in 2018 is amongst them - they are seeing the Pounds/Euro's that the mobile networks want for the spectrum.

The DVB-T2 multiplexes offer capacity for at least 15 SD MPEG4 services (and with COM6 style compression I dare say you could get 20 in easily) or, by any such DSO2, 8 HD services.

Arise News has now started on COM7. Both Motors and Arise are currently on air, so does this mean that they will not be timesharing and Motors will stay as 24 hours?

Don't know why but I now have this on 800 and vintage tv 801.

If you do a full rescan they will end up in the right place. They have recently changed mux and your receiver has put the new versions in the 800s because the correct LCNs are still assigned to the old stream. These will move to the 790s if you rescan.