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Old 29-05-2016, 13:58
fastest finger
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http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/ps4...ps4-neo-specs/

Interesting article with a source claiming that the main reason for the PS NEO is that the standard PS4 is going to struggle to run PSVR.
Utter nonsense. Has to be.

That quote sets alarm bells ringing straight away.... "PS VR was going to be terrible on a PS4......It was going to be truly awful"

Was going to be??

We've been seeing PSVR demos running on standard PS4s for ages now. And first hand experiences (including my own) have been extremely positive in the majority.

Unless of course the source is claiming all of those PSVR demos we've seen and played have been on secret Neo consoles.

PSVR demo pods start going into US GameStop stores in June. I doubt very much Sony are going to pull hundreds of super secret Neo consoles out of their behind just to show the headset off.

Crucially, one of the biggest factors in delivering a convincing VR experience is the frame rate. And Sony have already mandated that games must render at a minimum locked 60fps (which can then be converted to 120fps ready for display on the headset.

So while Neo will undoubtedly offer an improved experience, it will be about adding in dynamic lighting or better alpha and particle effects. Perhaps offering native 120fps instead of relying on Reprojection. The actual experience of playing the game will largely identical.

In fact, snce that anonymous claim surfaced a number of named and insider sources have been happy to step up and rebuke the claims, defending the capabilities of the standard PS4 when running VR.

Not concerned in the slightest.
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Old 02-06-2016, 13:30
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http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...n-vr-pre-order

"But I, like a great many PS4 owners, was swept up in the excitement and anticipation of the oncoming VR revolution Sony promised. Now it’s subsided and this new console has leaked, we’re left with a whole mess of questions and precious few answers."

I've always believed the PS4 was nowhere near capable of running an acceptable (to me) VR experience. The fact Sony aren't contesting any of this speculation when they could simply dispel them with some actual information speaks volumes imo.
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Old 02-06-2016, 14:05
fastest finger
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http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...n-vr-pre-order

"But I, like a great many PS4 owners, was swept up in the excitement and anticipation of the oncoming VR revolution Sony promised. Now it’s subsided and this new console has leaked, we’re left with a whole mess of questions and precious few answers."

I've always believed the PS4 was nowhere near capable of running an acceptable (to me) VR experience. The fact Sony aren't contesting any of this speculation when they could simply dispel them with some actual information speaks volumes imo.
BIB - Disagree. Because Neo isn't an official product yet. They can't contest anything, let alone baseless speculation, without admitting Neo's existence, which they're obviously not in a position to do yet.

It's clear to me PSVR has been in development for years and was designed with PS4 100% in mind. Will PS Neo improve the experience? Sure. But that changes NOTHING about what PS4 and PSVR set out to do.

People rushing out to cancel pre-orders. LOL. It's like saying "I'm not buying Uncharted 4 yet, because next year it will run at 60fps on Neo. Sony said it was a PS4 game and they lied"
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Old 07-06-2016, 12:09
Philip Wales
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But looking at the spec for the Vive and OcR a ps4 will struggle too run VR. Yes it may of run it fine a year ago, but now peoples expectations are rising having seen other systems, maybe "just running" on the ps4 isn't good enough.
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Old 07-06-2016, 13:37
TommyNooka
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BIB - Disagree. Because Neo isn't an official product yet. They can't contest anything, let alone baseless speculation, without admitting Neo's existence, which they're obviously not in a position to do yet.

It's clear to me PSVR has been in development for years and was designed with PS4 100% in mind. Will PS Neo improve the experience? Sure. But that changes NOTHING about what PS4 and PSVR set out to do.

People rushing out to cancel pre-orders. LOL. It's like saying "I'm not buying Uncharted 4 yet, because next year it will run at 60fps on Neo. Sony said it was a PS4 game and they lied"
To be honest, I'll either sell my PS4 or mothball it when they inevitably announce the PS4.5 that runs games better, that is not the actions of a company with the slogan "4 the gamers".

I think it's a disgrace that they are releasing a 'new console' so soon and they certainly wouldn't be doing it if they weren't trying to sell PS VR, it's going to create millions of pissed off PS4 customers.
Thank goodness we have still have an alternative.
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Old 07-06-2016, 13:48
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If the PS Neo runs games and VR better than the old one then I'll probably get it. I like my gaming and I'll probably trade in the old one to get the better one.
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Old 07-06-2016, 14:26
Philip Wales
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It looks like to me that all 3 console companies are running around like headless chickens

First Microsoft announce that they may make hardware upgrades to the Xboxone, that gets shot down, so they recant.

Then Nintendo announce a new console, thats only just as powerful as the XB1

Then Sony hint at a newer PS4 with better hardware, everyone asks "why"

Nintendo, then tells us their console is coming out late this year, and starts production in June

Microsoft try again with the "upgraded" XB1, goes down better with consumers (just)

Nintendo now announce that the NX won't arrive till next year, as they've pulled the "last minute" plug on production to make the NX VR ready. Gods knows how thats going to turn out, you can't just stop production and have a re-think.

Rumours are now starting to appear that the PS4 can't handle VR, anything like it should, and this is probably the real reason for the NEO.

The whole things a joke. Console manufacturers are trying to force VR on people, when there's just not the mass call for it. A decent console and VR systems looks like it's going to be priced around the £800 - £1000 mark. Well a pc and a VR system, is going to come in at around the £1400 - £1500, that will in all likely hood knock spots off what consoles can achieve. And you have the benefit of being to upgrade things like GPU's in a year or 2, so while your entry machine will be more expensive at least you can keep up with technological advances when they happen.
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Old 07-06-2016, 14:31
TommyNooka
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If the PS Neo runs games and VR better than the old one then I'll probably get it. I like my gaming and I'll probably trade in the old one to get the better one.
I like my gaming too, been gaming for 30+ years, but if they start releasing consoles every couple of years, it stops being a console and becomes something more akin to an underpowered PC. You'd be better off upgrading a gaming PC and buying games from Steam.

Hopefully the majority stick with the console they have, Sony need a taste of the Nintendo humble pie.
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Old 07-06-2016, 14:46
fastest finger
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But looking at the spec for the Vive and OcR a ps4 will struggle too run VR. Yes it may of run it fine a year ago, but now peoples expectations are rising having seen other systems, maybe "just running" on the ps4 isn't good enough.
There's a crucial difference though.

For PS4 drive it's HMD, which was designed specifically around It's capabilities, it needs to churn out a minimum of 1920x1080 @ 60fps. (Using Reprojection to increase the frame count to 120). So 124,416,000 pixels per second.

Oculus Rift and Vive rely on sheer PC brute force to deliver a necessary 2160x1200 @ 90fps. That's 233,280,000 pixels per second required.

Add to that Sony having optics that are widely regarded as the best around, and an RGB sub-pixel screen that largely negates the disadvantages associated with having a lower resolution.

The result is comparable gameplay experiences, while retaining that all important presence, can be delivered with significantly less horsepower required on PSVR. Just a small drop in fidelity on the cheaper hardware, as anyone would expect.

Ultimately, I suppose you could say PSVR isn't as good as OR/Vive, but only in the same way you can say a PS4 isn't as good as a PC. There are already 40 million of us (and counting) that dont seem to bothered about that.

----------------------------

Just to add, there are already a couple of games (Wayward Sky and VEV) confirmed running at native 90fps on standard PS4 hardware. No cheating required.
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Old 07-06-2016, 14:51
fastest finger
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To be honest, I'll either sell my PS4 or mothball it when they inevitably announce the PS4.5 that runs games better, that is not the actions of a company with the slogan "4 the gamers".

I think it's a disgrace that they are releasing a 'new console' so soon and they certainly wouldn't be doing it if they weren't trying to sell PS VR, it's going to create millions of pissed off PS4 customers.
Thank goodness we have still have an alternative.
They are certainly taking a risk.

As for their motives, there is a story that all they wanted to do was create a PS4 slim. But when they went to AMD for smaller, cooler chips it was prohibively expensive. It turned out they were better off going for a newer CPU/GPU combo and that's how PS Neo came about.

Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to the individual, but whatever the case Sony are certainly in danger of pissimg people off if they don't handle things carefully.
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Old 07-06-2016, 15:11
Philip Wales
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The thing is this Neo should of been released back when the PS4 was and the PS4 released back in 2008. But due to the economic downturn in 2008 the new consoles got "put back'

We were spoilt last generation and seem to have taken it into our heads that console should have a 10 year cycle, they don't. They can't possibly have, with the speed in which games are moving, as it is they hold back PC games now.

If the console manufacturers hadn't been so eager to "get one up on each other" back in when this generation was released, lets face it no one was really screaming for a new console, and just held off even a year or so, we'd be in a much better position now.
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Old 07-06-2016, 16:42
Yuffie
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I like my gaming too, been gaming for 30+ years, but if they start releasing consoles every couple of years, it stops being a console and becomes something more akin to an underpowered PC. You'd be better off upgrading a gaming PC and buying games from Steam.

Hopefully the majority stick with the console they have, Sony need a taste of the Nintendo humble pie.
I love my PS4 as it is, and if Neo just brings minor upgrades to the table then I wouldn't bother. But I am looking at this from mostly a VR angle. I fell in love with VR when I tried it in Summer 2014 and since then I can't wait to get my hands on it. It may not take off, it could lose support quicker than an old woman's bra, but if I'm doing PSVR, then I'm going all in, and if Neo increases my enjoyment of PSVR, then I'll probably go for it. All this still remains to be seen as Sony haven't actually announced anything and I dunno if Neo will actually make much of a difference to it. It's still all rumour at this point.
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Old 07-06-2016, 16:58
fastest finger
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I love my PS4 as it is, and if Neo just brings minor upgrades to the table then I wouldn't bother. But I am looking at this from mostly a VR angle. I fell in love with VR when I tried it in Summer 2014 and since then I can't wait to get my hands on it. It may not take off, it could lose support quicker than an old woman's bra, but if I'm doing PSVR, then I'm going all in, and if Neo increases my enjoyment of PSVR, then I'll probably go for it. All this still remains to be seen as Sony haven't actually announced anything and I dunno if Neo will actually make much of a difference to it. It's still all rumour at this point.
Spot on mate. Couldn't agree more.
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Old 07-06-2016, 18:59
fastest finger
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Tethered is the first game from Secret Sorcery, a new studio formed by ex-Evolution staff.

https://youtu.be/UCvp3z4ps9w
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Old 07-06-2016, 19:10
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The thing is this Neo should of been released back when the PS4 was and the PS4 released back in 2008. But due to the economic downturn in 2008 the new consoles got "put back'
I don't know where to start with your statistics here.

The PS3 was released in 2006, two years before the economic crash and at the height of the economic boom.

The PS4 was released in late 2013 - several years after the recession ended.

A PS4 with the power of the Neo wasn't released in 2013 for the very simple reason that if Sony couldn't sell a super-powerful PS3 at the height of the economic boom, they therefore stood zero chance of selling a super-powerful PS4 in a much more cost-conscientious society.
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Old 07-06-2016, 19:41
fastest finger
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I don't know where to start with your statistics here.

The PS3 was released in 2006, two years before the economic crash and at the height of the economic boom.

The PS4 was released in late 2013 - several years after the recession ended.

A PS4 with the power of the Neo wasn't released in 2013 for the very simple reason that if Sony couldn't sell a super-powerful PS3 at the height of the economic boom, they therefore stood zero chance of selling a super-powerful PS4 in a much more cost-conscientious society.
Precisely. PS4 was built to a price. Another PS3 style "five hundred and ninety nine US dollars" moment just wasn't an option. They knew from the beginning they had to come in at $399 to be a success. They even sacrificed bundling the camera to ensure they could afford to include a HDD and increase the amount of RAM at that price point.

I do get quite annoyed by the whole "consoles are underpowered" rhetoric spouted by the PC brigade and the pixel counters. PS4 was a perfect storm of timing, power and price. That's how you sell 40m consoles in 2 1/2 years.

Anyway, before I stray too far off topic, here's another new PSVR game.

Ace Banana. https://youtu.be/bdhBUmnkE0M
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Old 07-06-2016, 21:37
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Wasn't it the PC community that pushed the whole 1080p 60 fps thing? To this day that still gets talked about and who's to say it will happen this time? What if they bring this new PS4 out that is more powerful and the exact same thing happens again.........some games just can't run at 1080p and 60fps?
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Old 08-06-2016, 04:34
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They are certainly taking a risk.

As for their motives, there is a story that all they wanted to do was create a PS4 slim. But when they went to AMD for smaller, cooler chips it was prohibively expensive. It turned out they were better off going for a newer CPU/GPU combo and that's how PS Neo came about.
This I can very well believe. AMD are producing chips at 14/16nm now compared to the 28nm that was used when the PS4 and XB1 were being designed.

For AMD to go back and make chips at 28nm would effectively cost them twice the material compared to the now standard smaller fabrication process and I'm sure AMD wouldn't eat those costs on behalf of Sony or MS.

Wasn't it the PC community that pushed the whole 1080p 60 fps thing? To this day that still gets talked about and who's to say it will happen this time? What if they bring this new PS4 out that is more powerful and the exact same thing happens again.........some games just can't run at 1080p and 60fps?
This is will always be the case, especially when you have static hardware and it's the reason why gamers upgrade their PC hardware if the want to play the latest games at high framerates without needing to seriously compromise resolution and/or graphics settings. In 2013 a £1000 GeForce Titan couldn't run Crysis 3 on maximum settings at 1080p60 without some big dips and there are games out now that push cards a lot harder than Crysis 3. In 2009 a £450 GeForce 295 GTX couldn't run Crysis maximum settings at 1080p60 without major dips in performance (it required 3 cards).
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:19
Philip Wales
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I don't know where to start with your statistics here.

The PS3 was released in 2006, two years before the economic crash and at the height of the economic boom.

The PS4 was released in late 2013 - several years after the recession ended.

A PS4 with the power of the Neo wasn't released in 2013 for the very simple reason that if Sony couldn't sell a super-powerful PS3 at the height of the economic boom, they therefore stood zero chance of selling a super-powerful PS4 in a much more cost-conscientious society.
Ok I wasn't quite right with my figures, but the PS4 should of been released back in 2011, 5 years after the PS3, then the PS5 (Neo) in 2016 etc. Giving us a 5 year cycle. But my statement still stands console gamers can't expect 10 year cycles and still be competitive.

The Neo will now bring the cycle back on track. Trouble is will console owners then wait till 2021 for the next major console.
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Old 08-06-2016, 13:47
Yuffie
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Ok I wasn't quite right with my figures, but the PS4 should of been released back in 2011, 5 years after the PS3, then the PS5 (Neo) in 2016 etc. Giving us a 5 year cycle. But my statement still stands console gamers can't expect 10 year cycles and still be competitive.

The Neo will now bring the cycle back on track. Trouble is will console owners then wait till 2021 for the next major console.
Well there's still a lot of people waiting to jump to this current gen so if Neo and Scorpio does release they might to that one. Or if the current consoles drop in price because of the newer ones, people might get them, skip PS4.5, and then go onto PS5. So they skip a console but don't miss out on any games.
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Old 08-06-2016, 14:23
Philip Wales
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Yes I agree, there's still a bit of wiggle room for newer adopters. But what's going to happen over the next few years. We now have PC games playing games at 4k at round 50-60fps on very high or ultra settings, for not a massive price (£1200-1500 or so) and that will get you a computer that will happily play games on those settings for at least the next 4 -5 years. Are console gamers going to be happy for this to continue.

With Pc's getting steam big picture mode, HDMI, better controller support, better optimisation for gaming, the lines between the ease of gaming on consoles and PC is getting thinner, and the games themselves getting better, except for poor PC ports.
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Old 08-06-2016, 14:57
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Call Of Duty: Infinite Warfare is rumored to have some form of PSVR compatibility.

Playing the whole game in VR is probably unlikely, seems to be a section where you can control the Jackal fighter craft.
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Old 08-06-2016, 15:14
Philip Wales
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^^ Not sure thats a good advert
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Old 08-06-2016, 15:23
snafu65
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The thing is this Neo should of been released back when the PS4 was and the PS4 released back in 2008. But due to the economic downturn in 2008 the new consoles got "put back'

We were spoilt last generation and seem to have taken it into our heads that console should have a 10 year cycle, they don't. They can't possibly have, with the speed in which games are moving, as it is they hold back PC games now.

If the console manufacturers hadn't been so eager to "get one up on each other" back in when this generation was released, lets face it no one was really screaming for a new console, and just held off even a year or so, we'd be in a much better position now.
What are you on about? The PS3 was only released in the UK in 2007, so how could the PS4 be released in 2008?
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Old 08-06-2016, 15:38
Philip Wales
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^^ Take a look further down
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