Was watching AGMGTW and was wondering, following Dan Starkey's performance in that and subsequent stories, could the Sontaran's ever be taken seriously again, in particular, Dan Starkey.

Starkey's role on the TSS and TPS was as psychopathic as a Sontaran should be but now, as much as I absolutely love him as part of the Paternoster Gang, as a Sontaran trooper (The Time of the Doctor) he is reduced to comedy entertainment.

What do you think?

With a good enough script they could be made menacing again. But their short stature and built-in flaw of the probic vent will always make them slightly absurd.

I'd like to see an episode where Strax has to choose sides between the Sontarans and The Doctor/Paternoster gang.

Keep some of the humour surrounding his character, but adding a bit of pathos.

I was listening to a 7th Doctor audio from Big Finish recently called Starlight Robbery which features Dan playing three different Sontarans. I was really impressed at how much that story finally did the Sontarans justice.

In parts the story showed the Sontarans using brilliant military strategy, incredible personal strength and combat prowess, ruthless and selfless dedication to the Sontaran cause and a highly developed sense of honour. They were a force to be reckoned with both physically and mentally and it really restored my faith in Sontarans, to be honest.

They remind me of Lister after he was accidentally shrunk on red dwarf to kill the Vindaloo monster

Just cos Strax is written for laughs doesn't mean all sontarans will be written exactly the same. They'll march without fear, they'll conquer planets and generally be among the mightiest armies in the galaxy.

I think a bit of the appeal of the sontarans is that they're not the apocalypse. They're not sold as the ultimate evil in the same way as the daleks are - they're very good at what they do, and what they do is war, but they're also people, and they're strategists, and they're fallible. You get more dynamic range with sontarans. Strax is just one sontaran, who falls on a particular side of that spectrum.

Even if Strax does end up diminishing the sontarans, I think Vastra would enhance the silurians, so it's sort of swings and roundabouts. The silurians' schtick is that they're people, not monsters. In Vastra, we've been shown it, rather than told it.

You forget the two Strax clones from the Time of the Doctor, who where played for laughs. I just think they may have been reduced to comedy relief.

They're so Douglas Adams. Did he have anything to do with their creation?

No, Robert Holmes

I think Moffat realized that there is something inherently ludicrous about Sontarans. I didn't find them in the least bit menacing when they returned in Tens era. I'm happy to see them sacrificed for the sake of Strax. Its a worthwhile trade off. Not every Classic Who monster stands the test of time. I think the Sontarans are one of them. So they did the next best thing. Make them funny and relevant.

The sontarans are now just being used for comic effect now just in the way the ferrengi were used in star trek deep space nine. Big shame really.

I think the Sontarans have been ruined. Dan Stakey's performances as Strax have been very comedy like. I don't like that much at all. I also think that Mme. Vastra and Jenny are a bit of a bore too.

Since when do the Sontarans in any way, become friends with the Doctor? They hate him, because he always seems to have some way of thwarting their plans. I mean, Strax? Getting pally with the Eleventh Doctor?

Doctor Who was mostly, not comedy like in the days before Chris Eccleston and so on. Yes, there were at times, a few jokes and funny moments thrown in, but they were far and few between.

One bit that I do find funny, was when Peri said to the Doctor, "Doctor. Do stop talking in riddles." Or, "Doctor, you're talking in riddles again." Good bit from 1985, that. Not sure what story it was from. Anyone know?

No. They were all Robert Holmes's idea back in 1973.

I think they Cybermen face a similar issue at the moment. Although, to be honest, even the Daleks are less scary than they were when the show first came back. One good story is all it will take, however.

Interestingly, the initial concept for the Sontarans came from a joke idea - namely wouldn't it be funny if an alien were to take off a big domed space helmet and his head underneath was exactly the same shape.

Fortunately this amusing exchange was between Terrance Dicks and Robert Holmes and Holmes took the basic idea and invented the whole race and background history.

I know Strax is basically a comedy foil but he's now so well established as a character in his own right that I really can't see any problem if the Sontaran race was to make a return as honest to goodness baddies again.

Also I felt that when the Doctor's timeline had been affected by the Great Intelligence and Strax reverted to his former self, he still had menace and Vastra was genuinely worried by him, resorting to killing him.

All the monsters were ludicrous. The wooden cyberman, the angel in the mirror - they were specifically there to be thwarted. The sontarans had personalities, so they could spout sillier lines, but that doesn't mean that's all they'll do for the rest of time.

Besides, the Sontaran Stratagem and the Poison Sky played them fairly straight and still got mileage out of their abruptness and completely disinterest in human nicety. I'd also say that a lot of Strax's humour is in being a fish out of water. If he recommended a full frontal assault with automated laser monkeys, scalpel mines and acid aboard a sontaran ship, it's still an entertaining list but rather less ridiculous. And it doesn't matter how many silly lines they get, if a little troll kills one of the Doctor's friends all that gloating gets a lot less funny very quickly.

OP - did you write this article?

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/unpopul...trax-60771.htm

No didn't but I can see why you asked the question.

The whole issue only popped into my head yesterday afternoon after watching AGMGTW.

Spooky!!

Its called mixing things up a bit. Showing some variety. There is no place for simplistic notions of good and evil in modern drama. That stuff belongs in a pantomime. Audiences have matured. There is no reason why Strax cant team up with the doctor in the same way as there's nothing to stop a 'good' character going 'bad'. Which incidentally is something that I'm surprised hasn't really occurred in New Who. Keeps the viewers on there toes. Do we really want goodies vs baddies obviousness week after week? Where is the drama in that?

Agree with this. It show's what he is capable of inside, and any episode where they show paternoster gang going against someone truly evil, they alway's have the opportunity to show him in this way again. Could even show him as usual comedy self at the start, then deadly serious and harsh during the adventure, then back to normal at the end, just to make the point, that he is different in different situation's.

You can't group a whole race together in term's of their belief's or decision's. Despite the fact that they are all clones they, just like human's all have different experiences which shape their opinions and the way they see the world. He was obviously a fully fledged member of the sontaran army at one point, and may well have believed the notion that they should all hate the doctor, but since that time, his experiences as a forced nurse, and fighting alongside the doctor, mellowed him against other races, and taught him the doctor was a good man

The Doctor changes people, changes their experiences, and their outlook on life. That's always been the theme.

What I like about the Sontarans (I suppose it hasn't really always been the case) is that they'e not out for power, or to get revenge, or any of that - they have a war that they must win, and the rest of the universe is justified collateral damage.

Yep, go along with that. The moment where Strax attacks Vastra in TNOTD worked well. I think from their first story there was quite a lot of sly humour in there (Well, it IS Robert Holmes who created them. Even The Two Doctors with the rather naff lanky Sontarans had a fair amount of humour) and Strax really works as a great character. Rewatched The Crimson Horror today, and he contributed well to what I personally think is a TERRIFIC story. Think it'll join the likes of The Romans, Carnival of Monsters, Androids of Tara, The Unicorn and the Wasp and The Lodger when I'm in a "what purely FUN story do I fancy watching" mood

Wasn't it suggested at some point that Strax's somewhat atypical behaviour (for a Sontaran) was due to some brain damage because he was brought back from the almost dead?

No reason to think the bulk of other Sontarans are any less dangerous than they were because of Strax.