I was reading about the launch of the new series back in '05 and about how various people put forward different concepts for how the show would work. Apparently Gatiss suggested that the Doctor be the audience surrogate, rather then the companion. Any idea how on earth this would have worked, as I can't find any further info?
Doctor as audience surrogate
Originally Posted by Will2911:
“I was reading about the launch of the new series back in '05 and about how various people put forward different concepts for how the show would work. Apparently Gatiss suggested that the Doctor be the audience surrogate, rather then the companion. Any idea how on earth this would have worked, as I can't find any further info?”
“I was reading about the launch of the new series back in '05 and about how various people put forward different concepts for how the show would work. Apparently Gatiss suggested that the Doctor be the audience surrogate, rather then the companion. Any idea how on earth this would have worked, as I can't find any further info?”
Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.
Originally Posted by Theophile:
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
The Doctor saved the universe in both S5 and S6. Amy saved the Doctor in S5 in a sense but she didn't save the world. The Doctor did that.
Originally Posted by Theophile:
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
Yeah, thinking about it like this, it really does diminish the whole show. It's like he never was or is the hero in any episode, because it was just a clara who saved him. I think it's been made a bit unclear if that is still the case after time of the doctor, but I like to think that time of the doctor wiped out the event's of name of the doctor, and from what we saw on screen, this is what makes the most sense to me, even if other's don't agree.
I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.
Originally Posted by Theophile:
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
“Actually, that seems to be more or less how it is working out now. The Doctor seems to hang around while the female with whom he is traveling becomes A God - Rose, The Savior and Legend of Mankind - Martha, The Amazing Doctor/Donna - Donna, The Woman who saved the world (and the Doctor, simply by remembering him) time and time again and, most annoyingly, The Woman who goes into all of The Doctor's history and life and saves him time and time again for all time from helping him choose his Tardis all of the way through to the end of his life - Clara.
The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe was the epitome of this insanity, where The Doctor just stands around, but the Woman can do anything and everything and save anybody and everybody simply because she is a woman. However, this theme is prevalent throughout most of the current revival.
The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
There does seem to be a formula being recycled here. Sass Feistington thinks she's just an ordinary chef until she saves the Doctor and is rewarded with a tour of the universe. In the season finale, she temporarily gets super powers and saves the entire universe.
And she's sassy.
And feisty.
Originally Posted by be more pacific:
“There does seem to be a formula being recycled here. [...]”
“There does seem to be a formula being recycled here. [...]”
You're talking crazy talk! One time it was Wilf who somehow became magical, receiving messages from beyond the time lock, and he's not a girl.
Originally Posted by Theophile:
“The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
“The Doctor, much of the time, has become the audience.”
Being an audience to the events of the story is not the same thing as being an audience surrogate.
The example you have given actually work against your point - every instance of the those companions saving the day are, firstly, the climax of the story arc or series rather than being their nature, and, secondly, only that way because of what the Doctor has involved them in, or taught them.
The other side of that is that being the core of the story resolution is not exclusive from being the audience surrogate. Harry Potter is the hero, he is the character we follow, he is the eyes we have the plot explained through. And yet he is also the chosen one who saves everyone.
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
“I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
I agree about this, I'm all for a *yawn* strong, feisty, wise-cracking companion once in a while but since Rose -who I think was just about perfect on series 1 - there's been a whole procession of them, including guest stars, which is wearing, and is probably why Rory was so refreshing, he started out a normal not-quite wimpy character and ended up a straightforward, sensible and unwilling hero.
Originally Posted by TEDR:
“You're talking crazy talk! One time it was Wilf who somehow became magical, receiving messages from beyond the time lock, and he's not a girl.”
“You're talking crazy talk! One time it was Wilf who somehow became magical, receiving messages from beyond the time lock, and he's not a girl.”
But I bet a Clara was the unseen go-between...
Originally Posted by Talma:
“I agree about this, I'm all for a *yawn* strong, feisty, wise-cracking companion once in a while but since Rose -who I think was just about perfect on series 1 - there's been a whole procession of them, including guest stars, which is wearing, and is probably why Rory was so refreshing, he started out a normal not-quite wimpy character and ended up a straightforward, sensible and unwilling hero.”
“I agree about this, I'm all for a *yawn* strong, feisty, wise-cracking companion once in a while but since Rose -who I think was just about perfect on series 1 - there's been a whole procession of them, including guest stars, which is wearing, and is probably why Rory was so refreshing, he started out a normal not-quite wimpy character and ended up a straightforward, sensible and unwilling hero.”
It's a hard balance for the writers to get right - make them too timid or uncertain of their actions and it's up to the Doctor to drive the plot and the companion gets relegated to being captured and rescued, just like in the old days. Make them too stroppy and determined to get their own way and they end up like Adric.
Even if you think Amy was a bit too spiky, having Rory with her at least gave you the best of both worlds. I suppose in the early days of Who the dynamics were similar, if gender-reversed - a big strong man who will take action and confront danger, and the more thoughtful, vulnerable female companion.
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“Yeah, thinking about it like this, it really does diminish the whole show. It's like he never was or is the hero in any episode, because it was just a clara who saved him. I think it's been made a bit unclear if that is still the case after time of the doctor, but I like to think that time of the doctor wiped out the event's of name of the doctor, and from what we saw on screen, this is what makes the most sense to me, even if other's don't agree.
I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
“Yeah, thinking about it like this, it really does diminish the whole show. It's like he never was or is the hero in any episode, because it was just a clara who saved him. I think it's been made a bit unclear if that is still the case after time of the doctor, but I like to think that time of the doctor wiped out the event's of name of the doctor, and from what we saw on screen, this is what makes the most sense to me, even if other's don't agree.
I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
I love that idea. I really hope something like that gets used one day. Yes, maybe one day...
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
“I think it's time for a companion that isn't so cocky and self assured, maybe timid and a bit nervous, but pushing herself/himself to try new thing's because despite their low confidence they really do want to travel with the doctor, and the doctor want's them because he is able to see past their issues to the potential they have inside. Would not only have a fresh feel in term's of companion but would also serve to make the doctor the ultimate hero of most episode's once again, as I feel it should be.”
I get the impression that the whole plucky/feisty/sassy thing is the writers going so far to prove their non-sexist credentials that they go full circle and end up with a patronisingly sexist "Girl Power" cliché.
I like your idea for a companion who really develops as a person, but I suspect we'll continue to see a stream of fully-formed arse-kickers and wise-crackers.
