It makes no sense to say "they will vote as they wish" as if nothing about the routines can effect it.

And why would there have to be a conspiracy? They could just do it, without conspiring.

There's noting especially complicated or time-consuming about giving some of them better, more suitable or crowd-pleasing, routines than others. Indeed, it would be harder and more time-consuming to do an equally good job for all of the contestants.

I think the point about "conspiracies" (not that I really believe it) is that Hayley is getting far more routines that play to her strengths and mask her weaknesses while Beth is getting lumbered with dull routines that don't really show what she can do but highlight what she's less good at. Both girls have positive and negative points (I don't actually particularly like Hayley's presentation but there's no doubt that many find it very effective and she gives it everything in selling a routine - it's my own preference) but Hayley's routines are more effective at playing up the former and hiding the latter while Beth's are rather the reverse.

If you're into conspiracy theories you'd say that this was deliberate - Hayley's favoured and behind the scenes they want her to go as far as possible, whilst Beth is not and they're doing their best to get her out. A bit like giving someone with nice boobs and a big bum a high-necked top and tight leggings but giving someone with nice legs and bingo wings long, floaty sleeves and a mini skirt (I am being somewhat facetious now .)

Of course if you're not into conspiracy theories, you'd say it was all a matter of chance who got what. I imagine it takes more time and effort to design Beth something that allows her to showcase her gymnastic skills and superior skating and yet mask any performance difficulties than to give Hayley something relatively simple but showy with lots of t*ts and teeth. Not that that should be an excuse of course. Who on earth thought "Man, I Feel Like a Woman" would be a good choice for a routine for Beth ever in a million years for example?

One person's 'interesting routine' is another person's headbanger-centric bore-fest. If the public was being unreasonably influenced by one person getting all the crowd pleasing routines (albeit accidentally and through no conspiracy at all), presumably everyone on this forum would be in complete agreement about whose performances were the best?

Or is it that the perceptive posters of Digital Spy can see through the injustice of the unfairly distributed crowd-pleasing routines while know-nothings like Robin Cousins are being led by the nose and falling for simple flashy stuff week in week out, unable to spot that the real talent is being held back by boring material?

T & D reckon that Ray could have been a champion ice-skater had he taken it up when he was younger. That makes him fantastic in my book.

I disagree, in the context of the show and based on the amount of training he has had, he is fantastic.

I do think there was a potential factor that might have done for Suzanne's vote - the undeserved 10.0. That sort of thing always puts people off.

That said if they'd had her on the winning Team Skate team in place of Kyran or Sam she would have got through last week fine. If they'd put her even with or above Sam/Kyran this week (not unfeasible) and put Hayley/Beth in a sympathetic order (again, easy to do on merit) again I don't see any situation where she hits the skate-off. This coming week might have proved a problem, but I guess you just have to hope that hammering Hayley/Beth's obvious deficiencies as they have been sets up enough attrition of their votes to keep her safe.

I just think that they've backed themselves into a corner where the people they've presented as the main rivals (Sam, to a lesser extent Kyran) aren't at all popular, and the people they've presented as not being worthy (Hayley, Beth) both are. It just leaves Ray sticking out like a sore thumb. You'd think they would have learnt from the Lapinskas saga last year, but they haven't, although as the show is cancelled, I doubt they care anyway.

I agree with some points, but there's no way Beth is being screwed over by routines, well no more than anyone else - her routines allow her to do her tricks, that's what she does isn't it? You can't totally ignore performance can you, sometimes her routines require it (like everyone's!) sometimes, like last night, they simply allow her to mechanically do move after move, which presumably hides her weaknesses too (no performance required) while showing what tricks she can do - but of course, that doesn't look brilliant either, does it? You need both to a degree but if you have great performance, you can mask other things, which is why Hayley can make her (frankly sometimes dull) routines look good and why she truly shines when she gets a great one, and why Beth rarely truly shines, because you can't so easily mask her shortcomings.

You can say a lot about Beth and her being undermarked, but she's not being short changed on routines - if anything hers have been the most consistent outside of Ray's.

The best thing they could do for her is give her ballads more often - here she can do her moves while the performance is more subtle and doesn't require so much. That's her best bet to win over the judges anyway.

But no one could be a rival to Ray - it would be impossible, regardless of how the voting is going. Suzanne might have and yes she had some bad routines, but she also messed up a fair bit and was nowhere near as strong as him.

Suzanne's 10 didn't help her which is why I worried about Hayley - but Hayley was fine suggesting Suzanne's vote wouldn't have held up anyway, another reason she wouldn't have rivaled Ray. Still, Hayley's 10s may come back to bite her yet, unless she does a much better routine next week.

I think judges liked the gyrating, as did the audience. So much so whatever else he did got no real mention. Sam' s routine pleased me more because of the absence of such things, but I guess I' m probably out of step there.

I have not said Ray cannot or does not skate, nor do I know why he doesn't get to focus on that the whole time, his performance skills are better than the limitations offered by some of the choreography. Is it intentional, and if so to what end, I' ve no real idea.

Sorry, I meant to say DOI more of a hybrid of ice dance and adagio, rather than dance and pairs. I can see it came out wrong.

Tried to find something authorative on adagio without success, forgive me but I generally don' t generally use Wiki.

But not throughout. I don' t consider gyration a test.

I agree. Everyone has their own personal tastes...for me the odd dramatic lift adds to a performance, but too much is just boring to watch, and it does often replace good skating and dancing. For me, Ray manages it all - great dancing, great skating with very difficult moves, (just because he masters them so easily and blends it into the dance so well compared to the others, doesn't make the move itself less difficult) great performance and artistry. I think he combines the best of every other of the contestants talents.. and does it even better.

And on just a viewing perspective, I enjoy Rays performance far more than any other. I appreciate its only my opinion, and can understand why people may prefer other contestants. But I still think its a bit rich for Jeff to criticise Rays performances as if they have been lacking, when hes clearly skated not only far better than Jeff, but better than practically any other celeb. I only hope Ray doesn't take Jeffs advice - I prefer more skating and dancing to a series of lifts, nomatter how impressive they might be. As you've already mentioned, its usually done to compensate for the lack of skating and dancing ability.

Just got round to watching this... think there might be a little bit of sour grapes and jealousy in Kyrans comments. I can't help but think his comments about Sams ability and undermarking is how he feels about himself. He seemed to resent Beth being popular (which I get) indicating she was the worst skater, but not so nice mentioning it publicly. And I wasn't impressed with his description of Ray as a 'peacock'. Quite deliberate personal dig I think. Of course he tried to put his comment in a good way, but seems to me he was trying to hint that he was a show off. Don't think it was necessary. Ray does strutt his stuff on the ice...its called PERFORMING and he does it with style and artistry and lots of us actually appreciate it. I saw Kyran on TV only last week, slagging off Bonnie and accusing her of sucking up to the judges to get good marks on the Dancing on Ice tour.

Who knows if theres truth in the stories, but going out of his way to make negative comments on Ray, Bonnie, Beth, the judges scoring, etc in such a small interview, even though hes trying his best to do it in a subtle way, is making him look like a bit of a whiner in my opinion.

As for Sam being the best...his opinion of course. Fair enough if he thinks Sam should be getting higher scores, but is he really trying to suggest all of the judges and the majority of the public are getting it wrong in thinking Ray is better?

Ray is an amazing skater.

However, in the final it is the public vote that counts.

Beth is very popular and gets voted through week after week, just like Ray, never been in a skate off, just like Ray. Even with Beth at the bottom of the leader board last week she got through.

She won S8 with 74.99% (bolero) 64.14% (first skate) and Ray won S4 with 75.022% (63.837% first skate)

In S8 final Matt scored 4x 10 twice and the Judges favourite to win, but got three times less votes than Beth did. In both skates she easily took the most public votes.

I don't see this as a one horse race at all.

If he doesn't win, then I will know that the show has been fixed.

It is blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that Ray is head and shoulders above all the others, in fact most of the time there is no difference whatever between his skating and Maria's., impossible to tell who is the celeb and who the pro.

DOI is a reality show. Therefore, popularity comes into it more often than not.
Were it the Olympics, Ray would be a hands down for the gold.
However, not everyone takes talent into account when voting on a reality show

No need to cry "fix" if Ray doesn't win

I don't think it's sour grapes at all. Kyran was very honest about his own weaknesses & pretty much said it was his time to go last night.

I don't think his comments about Ray were a personal dig & had plenty of praise for him. He & Ray later had a bit of a laugh about the Peacock comment on twitter so Ray certainly doesn't appear to have taken it personally. And he was using Beth to make the point that you have to have the popular vote as well.

I don't share his enthusiasm for Sam but he's entitled to his opinion.

I've taped this Morning but not watched it yet. Didn't Kyran mention Hayley at all? Or only Ray, Beth and Sam?

Of course Ray laughed about it on twitter, hes not going to take it seriously and overeact to it - interesting that he mentioned it all the same and wanted to let Kyran know he had heard it too. I'm not saying Kyran hates Ray, and I'm sure hes a nice guy and they have good banter, I just found it interesting that out of all the complimetary things you could say about his excellent performances, he felt the need to deliberately mention 'he acts like a peacock out there'. Yes, he preluded it with 'of course Rays brilliant' as it was leading up to a '...but..' The comment on its own is no biggie, but the fact that in the few minutes he had to speak that he decided to mention this, as well as his apparent annoyance with Rays high scores compared to Sams and the fact Beth is getting through on popularity and not talent along with the fact that the last time I saw him on TV he felt the need to announce on TV that Bonnie beat him because she was 'bribing' judges behind the scenes just made me realise how many celebs hes managed to be a bit negative about, in such a small space of time. I understand he prefers Sam, but think hes a bit deluded if he believes all of the judges as well as the majority of the public are being hoodwinked and getting it wrong in thinking Ray is better.

Think you're reading way too much into it.

I don't think he mentioned Hayley by name. He mentioned someone getting a 10 when they forgot a lift when he was griping about unfair marking. Aside from Ray who else got a 10. Is it just Suzanne and Hayley? He was very complimentary about Suzanne so am assuming that remark may have been about Hayley.

Maybe... I'm not saying hes got some evil masterplan btw and I'm sure hes a nice enough guy...just that I've noticed him whining about other celebs in relation to 'unfairness' on TV a bit too much in the last week. And I don't think the judges and so many of the public have got it wrong in believing Ray to be the best as he seems to.

Why don't they just give them all the same routine? The judges will have their view and the public will have theirs, but no-one will be able to claim favouritism.

I agree

I think the producers would be terrified of something like that because they'd worry the audience would become bored watching the same routine again and again. Also, the male half of the partnership is expected to do slightly different things from the women, so you still end up comparing the men lifting their partners with the women being lifted. That said, I think it could have worked this week for the solo skate as there were only six left and they could have been interspersed with the couples routines.