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How come... |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 71
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How come...
in Series 6 opener - The Impossible Astronaut - the 11th Dr starts to regenerate before being shot dead by River.
Have I missed something as surely he had used all his regenerations up at that point? Apologies if it's been mentioned somewhere before |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,725
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The clue is in the final episode of the series - It wasn't The Doctor!
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#3 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Steven Moffats pantry
Posts: 8,807
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As fans we can work around it. For me fact is Moffat has planned some things. Others he hasn't. He didn't walk into the job with an entire plan for everything. There has to be a bit of making it up as you go along. No writer in TV has ever planned and executed a perfect arc that makes perfect sense. Not when a show lasts this long. And actors come and go. And production issues. And budgets. Sometimes things have to change.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 100 Acre Wood
Posts: 4,110
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Quote:
The clue is in the final episode of the series - It wasn't The Doctor!
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#5 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Steven Moffats pantry
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Quote:
Er?...Hello? It was. Just the Eleventh Doctor from the future. But he had gone back in time and had a beach picnic with Amy, Rory and River.
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The Id
Posts: 12,240
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Quote:
Er?...Hello? It was. Just the Eleventh Doctor from the future. But he had gone back in time and had a beach picnic with Amy, Rory and River.
IMO the first death scene was the Doctor but second time round it was the Teselecta but lots of people believe that is was the Teselecta on both occasions and that the regeneration was a ruse |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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Quote:
Er?...Hello? It was. Just the Eleventh Doctor from the future. But he had gone back in time and had a beach picnic with Amy, Rory and River.
But yes, I doubt if that part was hatched so early on, it's just nice that it fits. |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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Quote:
Its all a bit confusing tbh.
IMO the first death scene was the Doctor but second time round it was the Teselecta but lots of people believe that is was the Teselecta on both occasions and that the regeneration was a ruse |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,725
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Quote:
Er?...Hello? It was. Just the Eleventh Doctor from the future. But he had gone back in time and had a beach picnic with Amy, Rory and River.
Pay attention! |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 356
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Quote:
in Series 6 opener - The Impossible Astronaut - the 11th Dr starts to regenerate before being shot dead by River.
Have I missed something as surely he had used all his regenerations up at that point? Apologies if it's been mentioned somewhere before Another 'request' that you watch Series 6 again.
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
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Quote:
in Series 6 opener - The Impossible Astronaut - the 11th Dr starts to regenerate before being shot dead by River.
Have I missed something as surely he had used all his regenerations up at that point? Apologies if it's been mentioned somewhere before |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London or Valencia
Posts: 5,732
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Quote:
Series 6 arc is a bit iffy overall
The funny thing is that many people didn't see it coming, because they thought that Moffat was going to use the 'Gangers' to explain it all, and were angry that that was a bit of a lame explanation! |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 5,930
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My theory is that given that the War Doctor was such a secret, The Silence didn't know about him and would be expecting the Eleventh to regenerate (as we all would at the time). A lack of regeneration would have raised questions from the Silence and River about a mystery incarnation, and also whether or not that was really the Doctor - the regeneration effect is a good way to convince everyone that it's a real Time Lord on the beach.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Quote:
Such an iffy resolution to it all.
The funny thing is that many people didn't see it coming, because they thought that Moffat was going to use the 'Gangers' to explain it all, and were angry that that was a bit of a lame explanation! |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The Id
Posts: 12,240
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I never got River's reaction 'of course not' when she failed to shoot herself. Her actions before and following the event didn't suggest prior knowledge so i don't accept 'river lies'.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sutton
Posts: 4,973
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Quote:
I never got River's reaction 'of course not' when she failed to shoot herself. Her actions before and following the event didn't suggest prior knowledge so i don't accept 'river lies'.
Obviously, it could be that I was wrong (most likely, almost definitely am), but I can't currently remember the whole timeline of River... |
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#17 |
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Quote:
just wasn't particularly impressive.
![]() Quote:
I never got River's reaction 'of course not' when she failed to shoot herself. Her actions before and following the event didn't suggest prior knowledge so i don't accept 'river lies'.
The biggest sort of insult to writing that Moffat could have pulled. It's extremely poor form to simply say that a character previously lied in order to suit your plot and where you want it to go. Write an actually decent and coherent story that doesn't mean you have to explain two contradictory scenes with 'oh, they were just fibbing'. A child could write that! |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
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Quote:
Particularly for a series-spanning arc that took over half a year to resolve.
![]() Ah, River lies. The Doctor lies. The biggest sort of insult to writing that Moffat could have pulled. It's extremely poor form to simply say that a character previously lied in order to suit your plot and where you want it to go. Write an actually decent and coherent story that doesn't mean you have to explain two contradictory scenes with 'oh, they were just fibbing'. A child could write that! |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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Quote:
Ah, River lies. The Doctor lies.
The biggest sort of insult to writing that Moffat could have pulled. It's extremely poor form to simply say that a character previously lied in order to suit your plot and where you want it to go. Write an actually decent and coherent story that doesn't mean you have to explain two contradictory scenes with 'oh, they were just fibbing'. A child could write that! From a story perspective, any more obvious sign of recognition and the game would be given away immediately. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hull, UK
Posts: 7,363
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Quote:
At the time I thought it meant: "Of course not... A space suit comes out of the water after a long time being there (having to have been in the water before we got here to have this picnic)
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The Id
Posts: 12,240
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Quote:
It's not a question of River lying. It's a question of a much older River reacting instinctively, and then realising she's found herself in a situation from her past. She was under a lot of mental conditioning at the time.
From a story perspective, any more obvious sign of recognition and the game would be given away immediately. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Quote:
It's a spacesuit. You can't breathe in space, so obviously it would have an oxygen tank. That's how she survived so long underwater.
![]() What I meant was that she was under water for the length of their picnic, and had to have been there long before the others arrived otherwise they would have seen it. I don't know if that was longer than the 6 hours' capacity of oxygen that a regular tank would have had. And then there are the other points that I mentioned, that a regular spacesuit wouldn't have had. |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Quote:
Really? Thanks for that. I also didn't know that they train astronauts against low gravity environments in underwater tanks... Oh, yes, actually I did.
![]() What I meant was that she was under water for the length of their picnic, and had to have been there long before the others arrived otherwise they would have seen it. I don't know if that was longer than the 6 hours' capacity of oxygen that a regular tank would have had. And then there are the other points that I mentioned, that a regular spacesuit wouldn't have had. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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Quote:
So her emotional response on the seeing the Doctor in the diner afterwards was all an act? If she realised that the spaceman was in fact her from the past, would she really have reacted in that way?
Even if it wasn't that earlier Doctor that was at fault - he was summoned too - you can understand her wanting to let out her frustration. |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,360
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Quote:
The doctor didn't regenerate. The only thing seen looking like regeneration in that episode was a tesselecta ship, currently shaped as the doctor, performing a convincing special effect. Series 6 arc is a bit iffy overall, but this particular point was pretty clearly made by the series 6 finale.
The Doctor did start to regenerate at the start of Series 6. He didn't at the end. Breaking that fixed point is what caused all of The Wedding of River Song. Had it always been the case that it was not the real Doctor that regenerated, that would have been the subject of the fixed point and the Wedding stuff wouldn't have happened. Which would have been better, because it was rubbish. |
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