[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

There was once a point when people couldn't imagine Symbian losing the lead ...

But those market share stats only show part of the picture. Without the actual sales figures behind them, they're almost meaningless.

Symbian is not remotely comparable to Android though. For starters, it was never as widespread as Android is now, even at its peak, it achieved nowhere near the scale of market penetration that Android has.

Then there's the fact that Android will always be supported by Google's ecosystem. One which happens to comprise some of the most popular online services in the world. Symbian did not have that kind of infrastructure in place at any stage. It would have to take something unprecedented to dethrone Android at this stage. The only thing I can think of that could be possible right now is a monumental court ruling which severely affected Android, but the closest we ever got to that was the Oracle case and that all fell through.

I think there is a point at which the leader can't be caught by the other competitors, it happened with Windows, and I think Android is getting very very close to a similar point.

[alanwarwic]

I'm not sure about that.
Windows kept selling by making stuff obsolete.

Its not so clear cut for Google who sell services to any device.
There is going to be a faster saturation point for Android which is already at high spec.
IOS currenlt sells at quite low spec, so their customers have many an upgrade ahead of them.

[jonner101]

I think the comparison with Symbian is flawed. Back in those days the function of the mobile phone was different.

Phones are much more app centric now and Android has just got that critical mass of applications and people who can make money off applications to disappear any time soon.

[Anika Hanson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I'm not sure about that.
Windows kept selling by making stuff obsolete.

Its not so clear cut for Google who sell services to any device.
There is going to be a faster saturation point for Android which is already at high spec.
IOS currenlt sells at quite low spec, so their customers have many an upgrade ahead of them.

Not all android devices are high tech. The bulk of the sales come from the lower end devices and there is still a big market in developing countries. Then you have all the obscure Chinese manufacturers running android on their devices.

[neo_wales]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

I think things are very different now, smart phones are becoming the norm and there are hell of a lot more Android phones out then phones with Symbian.

While i never had a symbian phone, i was told they was a bit hit and miss.





You are kidding? A linux machine can work out of the box just like a windows machine. In fact better in some ways as you don't have to go through all the rubbish of registering like on a windows computer and also no hassle with security software.

I have set up a few Linux machines for different people that have machines with Xp on them and they wanted something a bit more secure for them, they are happy as Larry with them, who ever Larry is.

Not saying linux is fine for everyone, if you play games it is pretty limited, but for almost every thing else it is ideal. Even video editing is getting better on it.

What confuses people with linux is the amount of distros and different desktops, but choice is good. i like KDE desktop for it effects, but for lesser power machines something like XFce. I prefer the Cinnamon desktop myself for everyday use.

but i could set up a say a mint based computer and anyone that is used to using windows would get used to it pretty quick, in fact installing software is a lot easier, just use the software centre and the best bit, it is all free.

No, I'm not kidding, but don't derail this thread please.

[alanwarwic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anika Hanson

Not all android devices are high tech. The bulk of the sales come from the lower end devices and there is still a big market in developing countries...

A few months back I read that single core chipset cost $3 whilst going dual core the rate is 4$.

I guess with 512MB Ram again suitable for Android those costs aren't going to rise.

[qasdfdsaq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Symbian is not remotely comparable to Android though. For starters, it was never as widespread as Android is now, even at its peak, it achieved nowhere near the scale of market penetration that Android has.

Actually, if you go down the (now rather out of date) list of best selling phone of all time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._mobile_phones

You'll go through quite a few Symbian devices before you even get to the first Android or iOS.

[clonmult]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

Symbian like Linux was always a niche market, Android will take an awful lot to knock it off the top spot, I really can't see a viable alternative becoming available in the next decade that will beat it given the integration that Google and Windows now have with home user devices and that many people such as myself go cross platform between the two. I've tried Linux and still play with it but 99.9% of people just want a working out of the box experience which Linux simply does not provide so what chance do the likes of a new kid on the block really have against the established 'big boys' like Apple, Android and Windows?..... none in reality.

If it wasn't for Symbian, the smartphone market would possibly never have started, or at least would have been delayed slightly; it had what, 90% or upwards of smartphone sales at its peak? But then the competition wasn't that strong, and contrary to what some say, it was VERY app centric, and there were a variety of on-line app stores available (anyone remember handango?)

It failed as Nokia had truly incompetent management with a complete lack of vision, they split the OS development for each and every device (with parallel development teams with lots of infighting), refused to update the hardware in any meaningful way (sticking with the ARM11 up until the end - even though SE and Samsung produced Cortex based Symbian phones).

Interesting that you say about Linux not offering a working out of the box solution, as the reality is very different. An Ubuntu install includes everything that most people need - decent browser and an office suite, things that just don't come with Windows OOTB. And if my ex and her daughter are typical examples, they took to the interface way quicker than I ever expected.

There have been potential alternatives, but always held back by ... idiots. Nokias N9 had what was generally viewed as one of the best interfaces on any mobile, but it was late to market (Nokia management and their ties with Intel to develop Meego just stuck in development hell).

For the moment Android does have massive momentum; Samsungs work on Tizen would be the only mainstream possibility, but they probably wouldn't have a clue what to do with it .... so far its only in a camera and the galaxy gear 2 ....

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

the way you got to scroll down the screen to get what you want.

You don't got to do that if you take advantage of the great flexibility it offers (sizing, positioning, grouping etc) to let you organise your apps.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anika Hanson

Not all android devices are high tech. The bulk of the sales come from the lower end devices and there is still a big market in developing countries. Then you have all the obscure Chinese manufacturers running android on their devices.

Very true and some of these phones are pretty good to be honest for the price. Not everyone needs the fastest latest phone. i know a couple of people that have got Android based phones from names I have never heard of and they seem fine.

Try getting a Windows phone for the same price and spec.

How long they will last is a different thing mind you.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

No, I'm not kidding, but don't derail this thread please.

You was the one that mentioned Linux, I just put you right..

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

You don't got to do that if you take advantage of the great flexibility it offers (sizing, positioning, grouping etc) to let you organise your apps.

But you can't fit everything onto that first screen. i know that Android based phones do have different screens, but it seems to be more normal swiping from side to side than scrolling down.

I did not notice when I used a windows phone, but can you make folders? On Android I got folders, with different apps, in, so all my communication apps are in one folder, the few games I have got is in another.

[clonmult]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

But you can't fit everything onto that first screen. i know that Android based phones do have different screens, but it seems to be more normal swiping from side to side than scrolling down.

I did not notice when I used a windows phone, but can you make folders? On Android I got folders, with different apps, in, so all my communication apps are in one folder, the few games I have got is in another.

Yes, you can - Nokia have an app for that. And games are automatically put into a games folder.

[alan1302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

You don't got to do that if you take advantage of the great flexibility it offers (sizing, positioning, grouping etc) to let you organise your apps.

If it had folders it would be fine - but you end up scrolling around a lot if you have quite a few apps you use all the time. It was the one thing I didn't like about my Lumia 800. That and the lack of a missed text/call LED light

[finbaar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

If it had folders it would be fine - but you end up scrolling around a lot if you have quite a few apps you use all the time. It was the one thing I didn't like about my Lumia 800. That and the lack of a missed text/call LED light

Samsung have folders the same as Nokia. You get used to the WP start screen and in response to an earlier post scrolling up and down is more unnatural than left and right. The lack of a notification light is great, long may it continue. I used to do what ever was necessary to turn them off on my android phones.

[clonmult]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

If it had folders it would be fine - but you end up scrolling around a lot if you have quite a few apps you use all the time. It was the one thing I didn't like about my Lumia 800. That and the lack of a missed text/call LED light

Most of the WP8 devices have the sleeping screen, which gives you the missed text/call/email/whatsapp/etc updates.

And they also have access to folders on the home screen.

So therefore WP8 is fine .... ?

[linkinpark875]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I'm not sure about that.
Windows kept selling by making stuff obsolete.

Its not so clear cut for Google who sell services to any device.
There is going to be a faster saturation point for Android which is already at high spec.
IOS currenlt sells at quite low spec, so their customers have many an upgrade ahead of them.

If you can remember the early days of colour screen phones and camera phones, Walkman and so on Sony Ericsson use to charge £400 for a phone and you found LG and Samsung at the time had much better features, better screens, touch screens yet Sony Ericssons Flagship Walkman phones and cybershot devices still dominated the market. Why? Because they offered amazing sound quality and some of the best camera phones on the market. Similarly Apple do this now the Iphone 5/5S is the most used camera online, and one of the best daylight 8mp cameras on the market. Rather than go crazy with pixels they have retained the 8mp as it offers better quality in a small lense. I have no doubt it will get a higher mega pixel this year but at no compromise to quality. Again Ipod in the iphone does what Walkman was good at.

Sony since breaking away have from the Sony Ericsson brand have lost their identity and just release large PS Vita type phones. Camera quality is average these days and they don't really care much other than creating large mega pixels and super large screens. There tablets have never taken off either. I bought a Sony phone last year and sold it. It was "mid range" however I tried other handsets in the store and the Galaxy S4 at the time offered a much more responsive screen all be it too large a display for my needs. They don't like selling smaller sized phones with top end features these days. Sooner or later the phones will become so big they don't fit in a pocket. They would be much better working on flexible displays or thinner handsets.

IOS7 surprised many in the Android market. Apple these days seem to accelerate upgrades much faster and this year theres rumours of a larger phone or maybe two. No doubt the large one will be slimmer than the current iphone so it will get away with it. IOS7 added plenty from Android and IOS8 is only a few months off getting a demo in the summer.

Apple are no longer playing catch up they seem keen to anything Android does. They are happy to put devices out in various sizes and I expect a larger tablet too.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

If you can remember the early days of colour screen phones and camera phones, Walkman and so on Sony Ericsson use to charge £400 for a phone and you found LG and Samsung at the time had much better features, better screens, touch screens yet Sony Ericssons Flagship Walkman phones and cybershot devices still dominated the market. Why? Because they offered amazing sound quality and some of the best camera phones on the market. Similarly Apple do this now the Iphone 5/5S is the most used camera online, and one of the best daylight 8mp cameras on the market. Rather than go crazy with pixels they have retained the 8mp as it offers better quality in a small lense. I have no doubt it will get a higher mega pixel this year but at no compromise to quality. Again Ipod in the iphone does what Walkman was good at.

Sony since breaking away have from the Sony Ericsson brand have lost their identity and just release large PS Vita type phones. Camera quality is average these days and they don't really care much other than creating large mega pixels and super large screens. There tablets have never taken off either. I bought a Sony phone last year and sold it. It was "mid range" however I tried other handsets in the store and the Galaxy S4 at the time offered a much more responsive screen all be it too large a display for my needs. They don't like selling smaller sized phones with top end features these days. Sooner or later the phones will become so big they don't fit in a pocket. They would be much better working on flexible displays or thinner handsets.

IOS7 surprised many in the Android market. Apple these days seem to accelerate upgrades much faster and this year theres rumours of a larger phone or maybe two. No doubt the large one will be slimmer than the current iphone so it will get away with it. IOS7 added plenty from Android and IOS8 is only a few months off getting a demo in the summer.

Apple are no longer playing catch up they seem keen to anything Android does. They are happy to put devices out in various sizes and I expect a larger tablet too.

Haha!! So much rubbish in one post!!

Apple seem keen to pinch anything Android does you mean?

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

Yes, you can - Nokia have an app for that. And games are automatically put into a games folder.

so you need a App, that is taking up usable storage space to allow you to make folders? strange idea.
I think I will stick with my Nexus 4 and wait to see what Firefox or Ubuntu does over the next few years.

I just don't like the Windows phone GUI and also, I am trying to get away from MS as much as I can.

[alan1302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by finbaar

Samsung have folders the same as Nokia. You get used to the WP start screen and in response to an earlier post scrolling up and down is more unnatural than left and right. The lack of a notification light is great, long may it continue. I used to do what ever was necessary to turn them off on my android phones.

Didn't know they had folders down on WP8 - glad they have that now. The Lumia 800 was on WP7 and no folders.

Can't agree about the light though - I hated not having it

[alan1302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

Most of the WP8 devices have the sleeping screen, which gives you the missed text/call/email/whatsapp/etc updates.

And they also have access to folders on the home screen.

So therefore WP8 is fine .... ?

Is the sleep screen where you have to tap the phone to get it to come on though? I just want to have a notification light so when the phone is on my desk at work it lights up to tell me I have a message.

Good about the folders though as I always found that a pain in WP7

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

so you need a App, that is taking up usable storage space to allow you to make folders? strange idea.
I think I will stick with my Nexus 4 and wait to see what Firefox or Ubuntu does over the next few years.

I just don't like the Windows phone GUI and also, I am trying to get away from MS as much as I can.

Oh dear...

The code to allow the folders will take up space anyway!! So exactly what is different?

Worrying about 2mb worth of space out of 10's of Gb's is a really stupid way to look at things.

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

Is the sleep screen where you have to tap the phone to get it to come on though? I just want to have a notification light so when the phone is on my desk at work it lights up to tell me I have a message

There is the Lock Screen which is what you seen when you press the power button and that can show you your notifications. And now there is the Glance screen which can also show you your notifications either permanently or on request by waving your hand over the phone without even needed to touch it. Or, in my case, when I open the flip case (it works by the forward facing camera detecting a change of light level).

Scrolling up and down is no more weird than scrolling left and right. It is just what you are used to. In fact Windows Mobile does both, using left / right to flick between the home screen and the full list of apps and setttings.

[alan1302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

There is the Lock Screen which is what you seen when you press the power button and that can show you your notifications. And now there is the Glance screen which can also show you your notifications either permanently or on request by waving your hand over the phone without even needed to touch it. Or, in my case, when I open the flip case (it works by the forward facing camera detecting a change of light level).

Scrolling up and down is no more weird than scrolling left and right. It is just what you are used to. In fact Windows Mobile does both, using left / right to flick between the home screen and the full list of apps and setttings.

Now glance screen does look interesting - they have solved my two main bug bears with WP OS now...that's good. They can go back on the list again next time I'm looking for a new phone. Nice it has evolved a bti.

[alanwarwic]

"Is it time for an alternative OS to Android?"

The big question is 'Will the ops IOS be an alternative when the premium sales angle wears thin'?
As 'premium niche' it is well bogged down with that muddy cash dilemma.