I think our ideas of a cheap gimmick are somewhat different.

To me, she was interesting; she traveled in a different order than The Doctor, and I wanted to see how things would turn out.

Then, they jumped the shark eight ways to Sunday. Seriously, you can create Time Lords just by having two humans mate in the Tardis? Rent out rooms in the thing and bring back a whole race of them - Super, Super Gimmicky. She is the daughter of Amy Pond - Gimmick. She and The Doctor marry (semi-gimmicky - it is more a gimmick because Amy is now the Mother-In-Law of the man for whom she has been pining all of her life).

The traveling the other way thing was not as gimmicky to me as the constant jumping the shark that we had halfway through her story.

Moffatts attempts at adding soap style elements into the characters eg. Oh I'm your daughter and part time lord cos u mated in the tardis and I'm his wife too btw. Thinking it would appeal to viewers generate more interest and buzz etc. What a joke. Embarrassing and a total failure in my opinion. The way she was built up as knowing everything about the doctor and the way she belittled him really started to demean the doctor which I really disliked. It would have been much more interesting if she had turned out to be a very powerful time lord/lady. Total garbage.

I do enjoy the character and wouldn't protest to seeing her again, but think they did beat some beats to her story that would have been interesting to see. Melody becoming River and then turning a new leaf and falling in love with the Doctor all happened very quickly. I get her whole life has essentially been defined by the Doctor, but I don't know... I agree with other posters who said it might have been interesting to see River as a villain for more than one episode before she reformed, although we may have gone a bit panto with it. But then again, it might have brought more out of the storyline and characters. Baby Melody's kidnap was diffused by River's reveal and the Doctors reassurances, but seeing their newly regenerated and truly villainous daughter leave Let's Kill Hitler, still an enemy, would have been interesting. It would also have given Amy and Rory more material to work with. Considering she was their daughter, there wasn't a ton of interaction between them. I know we had more extended interactions in earlier episodes, but this was without the teasing of how she might be to them and usually involved a more open discussion about the Doctor and travelling with him. Having her parents forced into dialogue with her as they try and rehabilitate her, rather than just chase her about Berlin could have given the characters much more meat.

So what resolution to her story would have satisfied you? Was she only interesting as a cipher?

Agree with a lot of what custom coaster said. Would have liked to see Amy and Rory trying to rebuild a relationship with their daughter. Considering she was their only child. 11 should have made sure his wife and in laws kept in touch.

I liked River song, but the whole 'spoilers' catchphrase got boring VERY quickly and she became very smug.

Never really minded the character having her tropes, but agree a smugness came with it. I think they missed a trick by not bringing in for one of the 2010 specials as the sole companion. The Doctor and River alone is a different dynamic, not massively, but I think it's one that could have been more open and relaxed, she could have given him 'teasers' of information rather than just hushing him up and trying to put him down in front of his latest companion. I still think there's mileage in the character if they were to strip a story down to more of a character piece with no other companions or recurring allies involved.

Well, I'm as dim as a Toc H lamp and I appreciate the character.

I understand the 'smug' accusations, but as we learnt more about her, I felt the vulnerability and sadness of her character came out more and more. I think the goodbye (?) scene in The Name of the Doctor was beautifully written and acted.

This one post summarises all I hate about Moffat's writing. Utter nonsense (the story not the post).

I agree with this - those scenes were some of the best with the character. Even though she's kind of all knowing and was familiar with pretty much everyone, bar Clara, that episode was markedly different than previous episodes she'd been in. Even though she'd popped up the previous year (in terms of transmission) for the Ponds' final farewell, it seemed like we'd not seen her for a while, that there'd been some breathing room between appearances and that this River was a much older, more wise one. Although I had zero issues with River being in this episode, I do think her involvement could have arguably been taken out in a redraft and the elements of her farewell in this story, saved for a later date as I think it was a very nice full stop on the character. Then again, I think it was right she said her farewell to Smith's Doctor as she played off him very well indeed and did help to define that character and era considerably.

I just became irritated by her constantly being put into episodes to be either the info-dump or to be all bossy with the Doctor. It's why I didn't warm to Clara for a long time and why I'm a bit worried about Tasha Lem. Do we really need another 'strong' female character to tell the Doctor what to do and seemingly know a lot more about everything? Having one know all in the show (the Doctor) works, but two?

Not another female but another male character would be interesting.

I think it would get annoying pretty quickly.

Thing that got me was the futility. Nothing changed for her,her parents or the doctor.S6 should have been called "Melody Pond this is your life". Reliving the worst parts. Utah, Florida and Demons Run. Would have liked to see the towers scene. Alternative 11 could have tried to defiy fate. Fight to save the woman he loved Amy and Rorys daughter. Last part he had of them. Did 11 consider d-i-v-o-r-c-e. Breaking her heart to keep it beating. She loved him even after dying and becoming a ghost.

how would divorce changed anything? Her future was fixed. She dies in the library.

She killed herself to save 10 if 11 had divorced her she wouldon't have sent the message. What prove do we have it is set a "fixed point " ?. If 11 had tried he could have found a way to change the timelines so they still met but she did't have to die there.

It was personally important to both of there timelines. If she hadn't died in the library, the doctor would have died instead, so aside from the fact she would have never met him, she would have never existed in the way she did, if at all, being the fact that her conception and whole life was affected by her and her parent's interactions with the doctor.

basically as far as I can tell, she not been there on the day of the library, neither of them would now be alive/exist.

He wouldn't have been alive to meet her after that point, and as for before it:

In a one timeline scenario it wouldn't be possible to meet her before that point had she not been destined to save him at the library because if she hadn't she wouldn't have existed for him to meet her any time beforehand,

or in a diverging timeline's scenario where she did meet him beforehand, because the library hadn't 'been decided' yet then as soon as he died at the library she would have been wiped from existence anyway.

Still wonder who or what caused her message to go to the "wrong" doctor. 11 was the one who knew her and married her. Funny how even knowing what would happen in the end still took so long for him to trust her. River literally had to spell it out for him using the prayer leaf and cot carvings in AGMGTW. Little Melody Pond grows up to be River Song your wife!.

I personally love River. She's one of my favourite characters.

I don't think she treated The Doctor as 'some small piece of dirt'. She very clearly saw him as THE most important person in all of time and space.

She herself was a time lord and gave up not only all her regenerations for him but her life. In several ways. She spent her days in prison for a murder she didn't commit.

Not a single aspect of her character suggested she thought of him as anything but the most important person in her life.

I never understood the River hate. I always thought she was a great match for Matts Doctor. She didn't moon over him and fall at his feet. She was just as capable as he was.

I'd love to see the character again but don't think it would be right. She was Matt's era and IMO should be left there. As Rose was David's era.

But I do agree. Making her the Ponds daughter was a bit soap like. Surely he could have come up with something much more interesting.

Is River a fixed point in time or similar to Clara and in lots of places at the same time?

Don't believe in fixed points. In fact thats why I have a lot of sympathy for her as a charcter.She spent a lot of time trapped and instituionalised. Orphanage being tortured as a little girl,prison as an adult and finally as a ghost stuck in the library. Hope she is finally free.If 12 did meet her it could be a lot of fun. Plus instead of "sweetie" and "spoilers!" they could just smile at eachother and say "Hello husband" "Hello wife". In DW anything can and will happen.

So - thinking more on my OP.

We haven't seen the period between Baby Melody and young girl Melody. i.e. at some point after originally getting kidnapped by Madame Kovarian as a baby:- baby melody spends some time on the TARDIS in the Doctors' Cot. Presumably later she gets kidnapped again and becomes the little girl trapped in a space suit ??

They had her for the first 6 years brainwashing her. 11 searched for her but failed to rescue her and get her back to Amy and Rory. Melody escaped died and regenerated. Ending up in ledworth as "Mels". Kovarian told River as much in the end of CT before attacking her. "you never really escaped us , we were always coming for you". Next thing she woke up under lake silencio wearing the killer spacesuit.

I seriously doubt they would have the Doctor recover the baby only for him to let her get kidnapped again.


River's comment about the Cot either referred to Demons Run when she was in the Cot (yes it was her Ganger but the real baby would experience it) or she just saw it at some other point in her life.


The only bit of young Rivers life that could do with being explained is what happened between New York 1970 and Ledworth 1990+.


Did River regenerate into a toddler version of Mels and then age very slowly for 20 years before moving to Ledworth and then aging at a normal Human rate or was there another regeneration in between/Time travel involved.


If the Doctor did find her in New York then she could been in his cot before he drops her off in Ledworth in 1990ish.


Another possibility is that Amy and Rory find the newly regenerated child in 1970 (the epilogue in the Book Summer Falls has them in New York in 1970 searching for young River) and raise her before she regenerates again and travels to 1990's Ledworth.

I don't think as a fan I want to see this story itself, but maybe an explanation one day about that cot and why she recognised it and why it had writing on it relating to River. Its left a door open at any rate for a "mention" in the future should a writer want to bite !