I'll be honest. I wasn't a huge fan of Hayley during her series. While I accept she performs the beejaysus out of a routine, it isn't my cup of tea. That said, I thought she deserved to win her series with knobs on. She was miles ahead on all counts (okay Gary Lucy might have skated a bit better but I was usually asleep before he did his big moves so it doesn't count).

However, this time, I think she's getting away with murder. Not altogether her fault but it's happening all the same. Comparing her with Suzanne is ludicrous. Suzanne might have wobbled occasionally but she was attempting to do things that were way more difficult than anything Hayley has in her repertoire. Until last week I'd have given Hayley the benefit of the doubt and said that Suzanne was attempting things more difficult that Hayley "seems" to have in her repertoire. Unfortunately, Hayley did herself no favours last week. She came out, blethered about not wanting to skate solo because "why would she want to be without Dan?", did a not too bad, if fairly basic and a bit wobbly skate then came out for her pairs routine and blethered again about "never letting go of Dan again".

I'm afraid that enforces everything anyone is thinking about lack of skating skills. She's become the all-stars version of Kerry Katona.

It's just impossible though. I remember series 6, Sam vs Laura, not a bad series altogether. But the cynicism had crept in. I remember Sam switching with Laura at the top of the leaderboard, which of course made it exciting, but I always kept thinking - you were top this week because you had the best routine etc, for both of them. Doesn't always work but it impacts things far too much. Yet how can you not score it that way if both are of similar ability but one routine is better? You just can't.

It's the fundamental problem with the show and no disrespect to T and D but no one can be expected to dish out equal routines every week. It's why strictly works better and you can judge fairly as they do it themselves.

Half of the judges comments come down to what they've been given, not necessarily what they can do.

That said, Hayley is not as bad as is being made out. I still prefer her as a package than Sam or Beth. Some over marking for her last week but then Suzannes last number was overmarked too. It's also not her fault she is popular with viewers. And I am glad she is. She's been a victim of the shows flaws as much as anyone here - charleston proved she can do so much more but nothing else has come close

IMO Hayley is over rated. Ofcourse she performs but that seems to be the only thing she does. At this stage in the competition she should be doing a lot more skating than she does.

Hayley danced a routine last week to a very tragic, sad love song and smiled like a twit all the way through it.!! It was ridiculous. Why does Hayley always have the stage school smile and jazz hands routine! The frantic smile grates on me!! I think her skate alone made it obvious that she is not a confident skater but desperately needs Dan so she can do ballet moves, lifts and smil all over the ice!!

I agree with you about the Charleston routine. Yes, it was a routine that fit her strengths and not everybody is as fortunate with the choreography they get, but it also showed off what she is capable of doing. I'm not saying she is the best skater there but I would rather watch her than Sam or Beth too.

Forum members should not be attacked in such terms for expressing their opinions.

People had reasons for not liking Hayley, and if those reasons still apply, why should they change their mind or fall silent?

The problem with Hayley's skating, imo, is not that she had a wobble. It's that she doesn't do -- doesn't even attempt -- very interesting skating and instead relies on dance moves and acting that aren't integrated with skating. That this gets her votes and high marks shows that there is a fundamental problem with DOI, from my point of view.

But they all share this problem to some extent, even Ray. Even at its best, the skating is quite dull and slow, so they all try to jazz it up with performances that seem false and forced. Giving 9s, 9.5s, and even 10s for such stuff, and gushing over the performances, makes the judging seem ridiculous.

I think it all started to go wrong when Ray, and then Hayley, were picked for DOI, and T&D started finding more ways for such contestants to get dance moves onto the ice in non-skating ways (such as dancing on toe picks). Since Ray could also skate well, by DOI standards, this wasn't so much of a problem at first, and a lot of people didn't notice it at first even with Hayley. But by now, more people have noticed, and so such criticism has become more prominent.

Not attack is going on.

When the line up was announced people immediately disliked Hayley without seeing her. She came on and did a lot better than people were expecting, and those people are still hung up on their dislike for Hayley as a person.

You're going on as if it's Hayley that decides what she does. She does the choreography she is given. It's not her fault.

This is an attack, regardless of whether you want to call it one or not: "they haven't let it go since, it's sad." And so is "those people are still hung up on their dislike for Hayley as a person."


When are you saying they " immediately disliked Hayley without seeing her"? Back in 2010?


That's just looks like an excuse for ignoring what I said about what she does in her routines. It doesn't actually make any significant difference to my point how much is down to Hayley, how much to her partner, and how much to T&D.

But if we have to get into that, Hayley can certainly get some of the blame.

its not only the "interesting skating" thats missing - its the major lifts that Bonnie, Suzanne, Zaarah, Beth, Kyran and Sam were putting up and the higher skill tricks that Suzanne and Beth were/are being given to learn. Its not that big an oversimplification to say Hayley is essentially doing a slower version of ice dance, without many tricks , but good routines, while the others are doing a more difficult, less well choregraphed, ice dance, with tricks and lifts from pairs skating thrown on top. That means she also has more time to perfect her presentation.

I don't know how they get around that - but get around that they needed to. Hayley can't do what she can't do. They want someone to do the more difficult lifts and moves or they have have nothing with wow factor - so someone else gets it to do. The fair answer would be to test everyone's ability to do tricks, and lifts, and strong dance numbers in different weeks - but that would lead to more people looking weak - and obvious gaps in some people's routines if it wasn't safe for them to do anything for that week's test. They could follow the Olympics and award out of 5 marks for difficulty and 5 for performance - but that might cause Jason problems and produce some tellingly low marks. As it is, the best female all rounders can't get to the end, because they are expected to be more rounded, while others stay despite looking least like the professional equivalent,

Ray's more difficult. He has a high level of difficulty in what he can do. That obscures what he can't do. His size also is a more obvious limitation than whatever keeps Hayley away from some of the same lifts. it does though mean he also begins to look a bit samish, his new moves are less visible, his old big tricks look familiar, and Hayley's strong acting routines make his look weaker by comparison.

I was prettty surprised at Hayley's inability to do a credible solo. Her skating was very poor and her performance wasn't even there. But, we are judging this on their ability to dance on ice with a partner who is a professional - it's the partnership we are voting for.

I don't think the solo has any part in this competition. It's irrelevant.

Interesting they mark down for performance but don't for skating. Surely both should be good for tens.

The same with the flying, absolutely nothing to do this this competition.

I don't agree. Hayley not only has the whole package she has proved that she is a good skater as well but just skates so much better when she is with Dan than on her own. He just gives her more confidence and their chemistry is amazing! I personally think that Hayley is better overall than Beth.

When you say that Hayley clings on for grim death to her partner it does her a massive injustice! All 4 judges cannot be wrong and for me Hayley deserved her top of the leaderboard tonight and Beth was very lucky to get through!

Of course they can!

I can't agree that Hayley is a good skater. On her own she loses her balance and rythmm. Dan is an extremely strong skater, very flamboyant and always makes his partners look good. Hayley is a great dancer and performer, but her skating is less than average.

I agree, I would also rather watch Hayley and Dan than the likes of Beth and Sam with their partners. The biggest travesty this year was Suzanne going when she did.

Wouldn't someone who is the "whole package" be able to skate independently? Hayley cant do this.

I agree with this, Hayley and Dan are better to watch, I haven't enjoyed watching Sam or Beth apart from tonight when I enjoyed Beth's flying routine.

Agreed.

Yes, Hayley was not the strongest skater on her own but she definitely does skate much better when she is with Dan and this is obviously down to confidence. Yes Dan is extremely strong but it is not a case of him making his partners look good. It is more about him giving them confidence and making them believe in themselves more. If Hayley's skating was less than average the judges would say so and mark her down. Hayley got through over Ray and Sam tonight so it is not only the judges that think she is good but has a good fan base as well.

I feel that a lot of the dislike for Hayley is more about people liking Beth and not liking the fact that Hayley is being marked higher than Beth. Deservedly so in my opinion. I don't like Jason but I feel he is right about Beth. She has not got the whole package and is definitely lacking in performance! Sam should have stayed tonight and Beth should have gone. She was very lucky!

How exactly should Beth have gone Sam for those that have forgotten was actually the bottom of the leaderboard not Beth so why exactly should she have gone? Those moaning do you vote enough to save however. Fact is Sam was in 5 skate offs which suggest he wasn't exactly that popular and to be honest I still think there are better than him that should have been in the show and weren't. Hayley is hardly the whole package either then she is the weakest skater so hardly the total package. Given it is meant to be or at least used to be about skating there should actually be some emphasis on the skating onice part surely there should have been some more rather than ignored as it mostly has been in Hayley's case. Beth in terms of skating IMO more than holds her own against Ray and fully deserves her place in the final. Personally would rather see her routines with some actual skill than full on perform, perform, perform and nothing else of substance.

But we have seen Hayley skate on her own before in the year that she won and she was much better. Yes, she did have a bad skate on her own this year but one bad skate independently should not define the whole series. I personally think that the majority of the series is as a couple and that Hayley and Dan have the most chemistry and gel so well together. I can see why so many people have them as their favourites.

Even though Christopher Dean said he felt that Beth was under marked tonight I didn't think so, I thought that the judges were rather kind to her, especially in the flying when her partner had hold of her most of the time and hardly let go. Especially in the first half of their routine. Beth does nothing for me and leaves me quite cold because of her performance.

Yes, we will all have our favourites for different reasons. I know that Ray is a good skater and usually does very well but I thought that he was pretty average tonight and that he was over marked. I would imagine that Ray will go on to win but Hayley and Suzanne have always been my two favourite winners. When they are both on form they are great to watch. On the whole it has been a good series.

Beth is just an ordinary person from an ordinary background with no previous show business experience or drama training. What the hell do people expect her to do? Although personally I prefer much prefer her performances over Hayley's cheesy fake red coat act.

Exactly!