I've always thought of the Tardis exterior as a Time Lord constructed shell to serve as a doorway to the dimension where the interior exists. This was kind of verified to me in 'Father's Day' where the Doctor opens the Tardis to find an empty shell.
Random Questions Thread
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Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“Actually, I think this is precisely the concept at work here. If a creature that could only perceive two dimensions were to take a walk from one side of a square to the other that would be the extent of the area. But, imagine, that the two-dimensional square is actually like the top page of a stack of printer paper. A two dimensionally aware person would just see the top page but if technology could make accessible the entire depth of these multiple layers of paper, then there could be an infinite amount of extra space available, all fitting within the same two-dimensional profile.
All the TARDIS is doing is extending multiple three dimensional spaces into a fourth physical dimension. Allowing all of this extra space to be accessible from a much smaller 3-dimensional access point.”
“Actually, I think this is precisely the concept at work here. If a creature that could only perceive two dimensions were to take a walk from one side of a square to the other that would be the extent of the area. But, imagine, that the two-dimensional square is actually like the top page of a stack of printer paper. A two dimensionally aware person would just see the top page but if technology could make accessible the entire depth of these multiple layers of paper, then there could be an infinite amount of extra space available, all fitting within the same two-dimensional profile.
All the TARDIS is doing is extending multiple three dimensional spaces into a fourth physical dimension. Allowing all of this extra space to be accessible from a much smaller 3-dimensional access point.”
I really don't see what it has got to do with my point. Unless you can say you can contain a stack of paper within a single piece of paper. A police box is 3 dimensional, you cannot contain a 4 dimensional object in it. The TARDIS interior cannot be 4D unless the police box contains a teleport or another way of taking the person to another point in space.
All you have said is basically there are dimensions that cannot be perceived. I acknowledged that by mentioning string theory where higher number of dimensions that cannot be seen is a possibility.
Originally Posted by emby2:
“In the episode 'A Christmas Carol', Abigail doesn't age because she's frozen in the ice.
But can anyone explain how in the time it takes for Adult Kazran to grow into Gambon Kazran, Abigail's nephew hasn't aged at all?! In the 'past' they have Christmas dinner together with Adult Kazran, then in the 'present' scenes, he's exactly the same age?
Could be another nephew, I suppose, but they're both played by the same actor...”
“In the episode 'A Christmas Carol', Abigail doesn't age because she's frozen in the ice.
But can anyone explain how in the time it takes for Adult Kazran to grow into Gambon Kazran, Abigail's nephew hasn't aged at all?! In the 'past' they have Christmas dinner together with Adult Kazran, then in the 'present' scenes, he's exactly the same age?
Could be another nephew, I suppose, but they're both played by the same actor...”
Would guess they felt the need to show the same family, but hadn't really thought it through enough to do make up on a minor, barely seen character, or even got a bit confused by their own timey wimey. If you could force moffat to give an explanation that makes sense for the story though he probably would just say that it was indeed supposed to be another nephew for whom they used the same actor (even though it probably wasn't)
Originally Posted by JackMShep:
“I hate to say this but there is an episode (I don't remember which one) where the fourth Doctor tries to explain the TARDIS to SArah Jane, and although he over complicates it, he does basically say it's compressed”
“I hate to say this but there is an episode (I don't remember which one) where the fourth Doctor tries to explain the TARDIS to SArah Jane, and although he over complicates it, he does basically say it's compressed”
Although other respondents have pointed in the direction of the scene with Leela and the two boxes, I wonder whether you are not in fact remembering the opening of the first episode of The Masque of Mandragora, where the Doctor and Sarah talk about how big the TARDIS actually is. He asks her how tall she is "now", and she replies with her normal height (5' 4", or whatever), which he then dismisses with the line "There are no measurements in infinity". The Doctor doesn't actually mention compression, but he does imply that Sarah's dimensions inside the TARDIS are other than they are outside.
random question:- In day of the doctor, the painting is called 'gallifrey falls no more' but why is it called this when gallifrey obviously never did fall. Was it named as it was specifically just for the doctors benefit so he would understand?.
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“random question:- In day of the doctor, the painting is called 'gallifrey falls no more' but why is it called this when gallifrey obviously never did fall. Was it named as it was specifically just for the doctors benefit so he would understand?.”
“random question:- In day of the doctor, the painting is called 'gallifrey falls no more' but why is it called this when gallifrey obviously never did fall. Was it named as it was specifically just for the doctors benefit so he would understand?.”
I suppose it was in the process of falling and then stopped
It could well have been named for the Doctor's benefit, though. The Curator was the one who must have procured it from future Gallifrey and he would have probably been the one to frame it and name it.
Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“I suppose it was in the process of falling and then stopped
It could well have been named for the Doctor's benefit, though. The Curator was the one who must have procured it from future Gallifrey and he would have probably been the one to frame it and name it.”
“I suppose it was in the process of falling and then stopped
It could well have been named for the Doctor's benefit, though. The Curator was the one who must have procured it from future Gallifrey and he would have probably been the one to frame it and name it.”
Yeah, thats what I was thinking, just wondered if others thought roughly the same.
Originally Posted by bp2:
“I really don't see what it has got to do with my point. Unless you can say you can contain a stack of paper within a single piece of paper. A police box is 3 dimensional, you cannot contain a 4 dimensional object in it. The TARDIS interior cannot be 4D unless the police box contains a teleport or another way of taking the person to another point in space.
All you have said is basically there are dimensions that cannot be perceived. I acknowledged that by mentioning string theory where higher number of dimensions that cannot be seen is a possibility.”
“I really don't see what it has got to do with my point. Unless you can say you can contain a stack of paper within a single piece of paper. A police box is 3 dimensional, you cannot contain a 4 dimensional object in it. The TARDIS interior cannot be 4D unless the police box contains a teleport or another way of taking the person to another point in space.
All you have said is basically there are dimensions that cannot be perceived. I acknowledged that by mentioning string theory where higher number of dimensions that cannot be seen is a possibility.”
That is precisely the point, though. It isn't a question of whether you can fit three dimensions into a two dimensional object it is a question of there always being three dimensions but people who can only perceive two dimensions would not normally be aware of them. You can fit a cube into a square simply by placing the cube on top of the square. It fits within the two-dimensions that the square occupies and also projects an infinite number of such two-dimensional slices into the third dimension.
The TARDIS allows those who enter it to access all these extra slices of space that would otherwise not be accessible or visible. That's the concept I am imagining. It's dimensionally transcendental in that it transcends the limitations that the standard dimensions would normally restrict it too.
Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“That is precisely the point, though. It isn't a question of whether you can fit three dimensions into a two dimensional object it is a question of there always being three dimensions but people who can only perceive two dimensions would not normally be aware of them. You can fit a cube into a square simply by placing the cube on top of the square. It fits within the two-dimensions that the square occupies and also projects an infinite number of such two-dimensional slices into the third dimension.
The TARDIS allows those who enter it to access all these extra slices of space that would otherwise not be accessible or visible. That's the concept I am imagining. It's dimensionally transcendental in that it transcends the limitations that the standard dimensions would normally restrict it too.”
“That is precisely the point, though. It isn't a question of whether you can fit three dimensions into a two dimensional object it is a question of there always being three dimensions but people who can only perceive two dimensions would not normally be aware of them. You can fit a cube into a square simply by placing the cube on top of the square. It fits within the two-dimensions that the square occupies and also projects an infinite number of such two-dimensional slices into the third dimension.
The TARDIS allows those who enter it to access all these extra slices of space that would otherwise not be accessible or visible. That's the concept I am imagining. It's dimensionally transcendental in that it transcends the limitations that the standard dimensions would normally restrict it too.”
The police box exterior contains the TARDIS interior though. Unless there is a teleport or a door leading to the console room which is outside the police box the interior cannot be 4D. The question is whether a 3D object can contain a 4D object and the answer is no. And the police box having more dimensions and allowing the interior to be 4D is a flawed idea because the interior would have the same x,y,z coordinates as the police box and that is not the case.
Originally Posted by bp2:
“The police box exterior contains the TARDIS interior though. Unless there is a teleport or a door leading to the console room which is outside the police box the interior cannot be 4D. The question is whether a 3D object can contain a 4D object and the answer is no. And the police box having more dimensions and allowing the interior to be 4D is a flawed idea because the interior would have the same x,y,z coordinates as the police box and that is not the case.”
“The police box exterior contains the TARDIS interior though. Unless there is a teleport or a door leading to the console room which is outside the police box the interior cannot be 4D. The question is whether a 3D object can contain a 4D object and the answer is no. And the police box having more dimensions and allowing the interior to be 4D is a flawed idea because the interior would have the same x,y,z coordinates as the police box and that is not the case.”
I think I'm just not explaining it very well. All 2d spaces actually extend into 3 dimensions. A piece of paper might be 2 dimensional but the other dimensions around it don't go away.
Imagine you can only perceive 2 dimensions. Then imagine a box of paper. All you would be able to see in your 2 dimensional world would be the top sheet of paper and the edges of the box that bound it. As far as your concerned, nothing larger than the sheet of paper could possibly fit inside the 'box'.
Now imagine that each sheet of paper is actually curved at the edges and as you walk to the edge you just follow the curve round to the underside of another piece of paper in the box. You don't perceive the curve because the curve is a manifestation of the 3rd dimension. To your 2D senses you are just continuing to walk in the same direction but there is a whole extra sheet of paper for you to walk across. Now imagine that every sheet does this for thousands of pages.
Inconcievably to your 2 dimensional senses there is more space within the confines of the box's boundaries than could possibly fit within those boundaries because the 2 dimensional ream of paper has been folded up and, by extending into a 3rd dimension through this folding it is squeezing into the 2 dimensional confines of the box opening.
With the TARDIS we're just adding another dimension to that concept. It's hard to conceptualise because we can't concieve of a 4 dimensional space but it's the same concept as the box of paper. The TARDIS is folding our 3 dimensional space into a four dimensional space which we can't visualise, allowing an infinite amount of 3 dimensional space to occupy what we perceive as the 3 dimensional TARDIS exterior.
Can everyone hear the Tardis noise when it appears/disappears and just dismiss it as a windy day/train going by/elephant in pain or does its perception filter apply to the masses too and only those who have travelled with it or are in direct contact with it (Mickey/Jackie in The Christmas Invasions opening sequence spring to mind) can hear it come and go, even from a few streets away?
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“Can everyone hear the Tardis noise when it appears/disappears and just dismiss it as a windy day/train going by/elephant in pain or does its perception filter apply to the masses too and only those who have travelled with it or are in direct contact with it (Mickey/Jackie in The Christmas Invasions opening sequence spring to mind) can hear it come and go, even from a few streets away?”
“Can everyone hear the Tardis noise when it appears/disappears and just dismiss it as a windy day/train going by/elephant in pain or does its perception filter apply to the masses too and only those who have travelled with it or are in direct contact with it (Mickey/Jackie in The Christmas Invasions opening sequence spring to mind) can hear it come and go, even from a few streets away?”
People can hear it. I don't remember it ever using a perception filter, although it has sometimes been invisible.
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“but surely that means the universe of the inside is indeed inside the phone box somehow, and the phone box isn't a gateway.
I know some people think this gateway theory, and fair enough if that's what they believe, but I've always thought it was an entire universe somehow fit inside the phone box, and the inside and outside are one and the same item. if this wasn't the case then it wouldn't make sense how they feel the effect's of what is happening to the outer part of the tardis when they are inside, or how the inner and outer tardis could cross to paralell worlds, or bubble universes etc together.
This being my opinion, I just assumed it was compression as it is the only way I could think it could happen.”
“but surely that means the universe of the inside is indeed inside the phone box somehow, and the phone box isn't a gateway.
I know some people think this gateway theory, and fair enough if that's what they believe, but I've always thought it was an entire universe somehow fit inside the phone box, and the inside and outside are one and the same item. if this wasn't the case then it wouldn't make sense how they feel the effect's of what is happening to the outer part of the tardis when they are inside, or how the inner and outer tardis could cross to paralell worlds, or bubble universes etc together.
This being my opinion, I just assumed it was compression as it is the only way I could think it could happen.”
But they don't. Not consistently, anyway.They don't spin around when it's in flight, but the TARDIS itself does.
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“But they don't. Not consistently, anyway.They don't spin around when it's in flight, but the TARDIS itself does.”
“But they don't. Not consistently, anyway.They don't spin around when it's in flight, but the TARDIS itself does.”
Yes, it's not being spectacularly consistent. There have been plenty of times when the travellers have been shaken about due to external forces and times when they haven't. Maybe the TARDIS sometimes has problems with its inertial dampers
Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“Yes, it's not being spectacularly consistent. There have been plenty of times when the travellers have been shaken about due to external forces and times when they haven't. Maybe the TARDIS sometimes has problems with its inertial dampers”
“Yes, it's not being spectacularly consistent. There have been plenty of times when the travellers have been shaken about due to external forces and times when they haven't. Maybe the TARDIS sometimes has problems with its inertial dampers
”
I think gathering together a set of logically consistent rules for the TARDIS from the available evidence would be a tedious, unrewarding job.
Unless it was welcomed by the fandom, then likes and karma all-round!
Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“I think I'm just not explaining it very well. All 2d spaces actually extend into 3 dimensions. A piece of paper might be 2 dimensional but the other dimensions around it don't go away.
Imagine you can only perceive 2 dimensions. Then imagine a box of paper. All you would be able to see in your 2 dimensional world would be the top sheet of paper and the edges of the box that bound it. As far as your concerned, nothing larger than the sheet of paper could possibly fit inside the 'box'.
Now imagine that each sheet of paper is actually curved at the edges and as you walk to the edge you just follow the curve round to the underside of another piece of paper in the box. You don't perceive the curve because the curve is a manifestation of the 3rd dimension. To your 2D senses you are just continuing to walk in the same direction but there is a whole extra sheet of paper for you to walk across. Now imagine that every sheet does this for thousands of pages.
Inconcievably to your 2 dimensional senses there is more space within the confines of the box's boundaries than could possibly fit within those boundaries because the 2 dimensional ream of paper has been folded up and, by extending into a 3rd dimension through this folding it is squeezing into the 2 dimensional confines of the box opening.
With the TARDIS we're just adding another dimension to that concept. It's hard to conceptualise because we can't concieve of a 4 dimensional space but it's the same concept as the box of paper. The TARDIS is folding our 3 dimensional space into a four dimensional space which we can't visualise, allowing an infinite amount of 3 dimensional space to occupy what we perceive as the 3 dimensional TARDIS exterior.”
“I think I'm just not explaining it very well. All 2d spaces actually extend into 3 dimensions. A piece of paper might be 2 dimensional but the other dimensions around it don't go away.
Imagine you can only perceive 2 dimensions. Then imagine a box of paper. All you would be able to see in your 2 dimensional world would be the top sheet of paper and the edges of the box that bound it. As far as your concerned, nothing larger than the sheet of paper could possibly fit inside the 'box'.
Now imagine that each sheet of paper is actually curved at the edges and as you walk to the edge you just follow the curve round to the underside of another piece of paper in the box. You don't perceive the curve because the curve is a manifestation of the 3rd dimension. To your 2D senses you are just continuing to walk in the same direction but there is a whole extra sheet of paper for you to walk across. Now imagine that every sheet does this for thousands of pages.
Inconcievably to your 2 dimensional senses there is more space within the confines of the box's boundaries than could possibly fit within those boundaries because the 2 dimensional ream of paper has been folded up and, by extending into a 3rd dimension through this folding it is squeezing into the 2 dimensional confines of the box opening.
With the TARDIS we're just adding another dimension to that concept. It's hard to conceptualise because we can't concieve of a 4 dimensional space but it's the same concept as the box of paper. The TARDIS is folding our 3 dimensional space into a four dimensional space which we can't visualise, allowing an infinite amount of 3 dimensional space to occupy what we perceive as the 3 dimensional TARDIS exterior.”
I debated whether I should respond to this.
Can I just say you are wrong. The curve example is a bad example. The sheet of paper does not contain the curve. For the TARDIS interior it is clear that at least one of the The Police Box cannot contain a 4D object especially one which doesn't have the same x,y and z coordinates. As I said the only way the interior can be 4D is if there is a teleport or link between the inside of the police box and the TARDIS interior.
Please can you not go on about unseen dimensions because I did acknowledge this in multiple comments but you keep ignoring that as well as me talking about the requirement of having the same x,y and z coordinantes.
Originally Posted by bp2:
“I debated whether I should respond to this.
Can I just say you are wrong. The curve example is a bad example. The sheet of paper does not contain the curve. For the TARDIS interior it is clear that at least one of the The Police Box cannot contain a 4D object especially one which doesn't have the same x,y and z coordinates. As I said the only way the interior can be 4D is if there is a teleport or link between the inside of the police box and the TARDIS interior.
Please can you not go on about unseen dimensions because I did acknowledge this in multiple comments but you keep ignoring that as well as me talking about the requirement of having the same x,y and z coordinantes.”
“I debated whether I should respond to this.
Can I just say you are wrong. The curve example is a bad example. The sheet of paper does not contain the curve. For the TARDIS interior it is clear that at least one of the The Police Box cannot contain a 4D object especially one which doesn't have the same x,y and z coordinates. As I said the only way the interior can be 4D is if there is a teleport or link between the inside of the police box and the TARDIS interior.
Please can you not go on about unseen dimensions because I did acknowledge this in multiple comments but you keep ignoring that as well as me talking about the requirement of having the same x,y and z coordinantes.”
What do you mean the paper doesn't contain a curve? I'm citing an example in which it does. Anyone can curve a piece of paper. I don't understand that comment?
Plus there's no right or wrong. This is all made up science. I'm just positing a theory that could fit.
The reason I keep talking about unseen dimensions is that it is the whole point of the theory. I can't explain the theory without taliking about it and your point about the 3D TARDIS not being able to contain a 4D object misses that point entirely, which is why I was hoping that a different example would explain it better. The 2d box rim 'contains' the 3d ream of paper perfectly adequately, within the context of 2d. Just as the 3d TARDIS exterior contains the 4D TARDIS interior within the context of 3d.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I can't explain it any more clearly but there's really no need to get worked up about it. If you don't like the theory that's perfectly fine
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“If you could rip off all four outer sides of the Tardis, what would you then be seeing?.”
“If you could rip off all four outer sides of the Tardis, what would you then be seeing?.”
Originally Posted by JackMShep:
“I know there's no logic to this, but I've always thought that the other three sides of the TARDIS were like emergency exits that are poitioned in some of the TARDIS' other rooms and can be opened from the inside but not from the outside”
“I know there's no logic to this, but I've always thought that the other three sides of the TARDIS were like emergency exits that are poitioned in some of the TARDIS' other rooms and can be opened from the inside but not from the outside”
Am pretty sure that the Doctor and Adric used one of the other sides as an exit in the first or second episode of Logopolis and during the recursive loop part.
Does the word 'dalek' mean anything or come from anywhere or is it just a alieny type name that popped into someone's head?
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“Does the word 'dalek' mean anything or come from anywhere or is it just a alieny type name that popped into someone's head?”
“Does the word 'dalek' mean anything or come from anywhere or is it just a alieny type name that popped into someone's head?”
I could be wrong here, but I think Terry Nation got the name from a volume of an encyclopaedia which ran from "Da" to "Lek"
This might be an urban myth though
Originally Posted by darthbibble:
“I could be wrong here, but I think Terry Nation got the name from a volume of an encyclopaedia which ran from "Da" to "Lek"
This might be an urban myth though”
“I could be wrong here, but I think Terry Nation got the name from a volume of an encyclopaedia which ran from "Da" to "Lek"
This might be an urban myth though”
While he did claim this he later admitted it wasn't true.
Quote:
“ In 1964 Nation told a Daily Mirror reporter that the Dalek name came from a dictionary or encyclopaedia volume, the spine of which read "Dal – Lek" (or, according to another version, "Dal – Eks").[59] He later admitted that this book and the origin of the Dalek name was completely fictitious, and that anyone bothering to check out his story would have found him out.[59] The name had in reality simply rolled off his typewriter.[60] Later, Nation was pleasantly surprised to discover that in Serbo-Croatian the word "dalek" means "far", or "distant".[61]”
“ In 1964 Nation told a Daily Mirror reporter that the Dalek name came from a dictionary or encyclopaedia volume, the spine of which read "Dal – Lek" (or, according to another version, "Dal – Eks").[59] He later admitted that this book and the origin of the Dalek name was completely fictitious, and that anyone bothering to check out his story would have found him out.[59] The name had in reality simply rolled off his typewriter.[60] Later, Nation was pleasantly surprised to discover that in Serbo-Croatian the word "dalek" means "far", or "distant".[61]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek#Development
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“While he did claim this he later admitted it wasn't true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek#Development”
“While he did claim this he later admitted it wasn't true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek#Development”
Cool. Thanks for the quick reply. shame he wasn't familiar with norwegian though because as we saw in doomsday the word dallig (not sure if thats the right spelling) sounds almost the same and according to that episode means 'bad' which would have been much more fitting.
Did the tenth Doctor ever wear his coat for an episode without ever taking it off (I'm thinking Planet of the Ood but not 100% sure) and did he and Matt Smith in his second generation outfit, ever do the buttons up?
Just comparing to Capaldi
Just comparing to Capaldi
Originally Posted by JackMShep:
“Did the tenth Doctor ever wear his coat for an episode without ever taking it off (I'm thinking Planet of the Ood but not 100% sure) and did he and Matt Smith in his second generation outfit, ever do the buttons up?
Just comparing to Capaldi”
“Did the tenth Doctor ever wear his coat for an episode without ever taking it off (I'm thinking Planet of the Ood but not 100% sure) and did he and Matt Smith in his second generation outfit, ever do the buttons up?
Just comparing to Capaldi”
Well, he didn't take it off in 'Turn Left', because he was hardly in it.
I think most of the time it's three buttons done up and bottom button loose, but it'd be painstakingly impossible to be sure.
Originally Posted by emby2:
“Well, he didn't take it off in 'Turn Left', because he was hardly in it.
I think most of the time it's three buttons done up and bottom button loose, but it'd be painstakingly impossible to be sure.”
“Well, he didn't take it off in 'Turn Left', because he was hardly in it.
I think most of the time it's three buttons done up and bottom button loose, but it'd be painstakingly impossible to be sure.”
I meant his brown long coat not the pin stripe jacket
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