It still makes me laugh, that does, the Dalek asking " Would you care for some tea?".

On BBC 3 now.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q43cvAGBk5M
Dalek Tea Time!

Funny if you hadn't heard the Daleks in unusual situations, reading Shakespeare etc gimmick hundreds of times in Big Finish over the last 15 years.

Victory remains probably the worst episode of DW ever.

pretty average episode overall, but yeah the dalek's being so good at the start and the confusion of the doctor at this was good. Would have been good if they had longer to play with this concept, like having what we saw, but also people saying they trust the daleks and recounting times they have helped them, and then all being against the doctor because he is spouting bile about their precious 'ironside' friends who they have known for much longer than him. Maybe even churchill turning against him until the reveal.

Also it's other main good point is the daleks actually win for a change, and the doctor does exactly what they want all along. Why are they not this intelligent every time, they could of disposed of him years ago

Cant say i found it particularly side splitting. That alongside the Jammie Dodger stuff and the reveal of the paradigm Daleks in all their multi coloured splendour made the Daleks as ridiculous as ever. This was the opposite of what I was hoping for. After the CGI swathes of Daleks in the RTD era that were too easily defeated I was hoping that Moffat and Gatiss would make them scary again. Nope. Same old same old.

Thank goodness for Ian Mcniece and spitfires in space for saving the episode.

A really enjoyable episode which suffered because:

(a) Fans tend to associate 'darker' with better. Actually not just fans this seems to be a universal feature of popular criticism. Hence the condemnation for the jammy dodgers (despite actually being thoroughly in keeping with classic Who) and the cup of tea incident.

(b) People hated the redesign of the Daleks. They had a point but the whole thing went a bit over the top.

But I thought the World War II theme worked out really well and the peformances were good.

I loved the jammy dodgers and would you care for some tea

As it happens, I haven't heard that hundreds of times in Big Finish. So I found it perfectly entertaining, thank you.

Just caught part of this, Matt Smith looks so young.

I got physically angry the second time I watched Victory due to them binning the Raymond Cusick designs to sell more toys. The ming mong point of view isn't always the wrong one.

Not at all. Darker isn't always better. Far from it. And we all love the quirky things that make Doctor Who what it is. I just felt it was the right time in the show for the Daleks to have a successfull reinvention. And this wasn't it. I happen to think that over the RTD era the Daleks became CGI canon fodder.

The idea of having the Daleks subjugated and reduced to the status of robot teasmaid could have worked if their eventual victory and revenge had any real punch to it. That contrast would have worked. I think its maybe what they were aiming for. Instead they went from silly to even sillier.

Maybe a two parter wouldve given them more scope to explore the interesting concept. After all with the well known Nazi connotations of the Daleks and their origin the World War 2 setting couldve been a chance to explore this in more detail. I just found it all a bit knockabout. Which is fine sometimes. Just didn't work here. For me at least.

yet another gatiss-butchered episode. seriously can't think of one of his episodes that's really clicked with me, the story telling, dialogue and the rhythm/pace of the episode is quite jarring in comparison to some of the other writers

the dolls in 'night terrors' had a great opportunity to be a proper iconic creepy villain and they were wasted with a weak resolution in the episode to do with the love between a dad and a son

just felt I needed to have a little rant

Gatiss is a very sophisticated writer with a great sense of character- as demonstrated in An Adventure in Space and Time. However, he also likes to have fun. Victory of the Daleks wasn't his best episode, that was probably the Unquiet Dead. And I will agree he slipped up quite badly with the Idiot's Lantern.

The broadcast script of The Unquiet Dead was 100% written by RTD, according to RTD's book The Writers Tale.

I liked the ep apart from the iPod daleks.

Is it this that makes people dislike it?

Wow, I knew that he'd rewritten it but not 100%! Parts of it are extremely Gatiss so it's a little hard to believe that...

Yeah, but he claims to have re-written almost everyone.

He was, perhaps, the the first USA-style 'show-runner' in the UK.

At times, in his book, I was a bit peeved at his neediness. Wasn't it enough to run this whole ship, draw an impressive salary, without mooching in on other writers?

The Daleks trick their most feared enemy into validating them so that they can re-imagine themselves. I thought it was great.

Of course, the reveal of the newly imagined Daleks was sort of 'Mehhh' and the saucer set looked too much like an industrial freezer, but I loved the bits up until that.

I did find it difficult to believe that Churchill would be given weapons that would trounce the Nazis without breaking a sweat, winning the war and saving hundreds of thousands of allied lives, and he lets the Doctor walk off with it at the end without an argument? Maybe I'm quibbling.

Loved the return of the Daleks to being evil game-players. Shades of Power all over again

to be fair to gatiss, the idea of a spaceship hiding behind the moon is really quite clever indeed!

Well, I haven't read the book, but if you believe that you will believe anything. If there was one person who would try to drag a Who script in the direction of a classic 1970s Holmes style script (ie. the Unquiet Dead) it is Gatiss. See his documentary series on British horror. And if there is there is one person whose writing style is least like the 1970s Hammer Horror style (as seen in the Unquiet Dead) it is RTD.

I will forever be grateful to RTD for his triumph in bringing back Who but if he is seriously making this claim then he has really gone down in my estimation.

I do think victory would have worked better as a 2 parter in my opinion. Story feels rushed.

Yep, agree with that. It has good moments, particularly in it's first half, but is not one I've tended to rewatch much. Usually skip to the Weeping Angels 2 parter when watching the Series 5 Box Set. Weakest episode of a brilliant series IMO.

Still, Matt's up to his usual high standard and I liked the Jammie Dodger stand off.

Yes. Very much yes! It should have been a two parter, with doubt over the Ironsides going to the point of the Doctor being arrested to end part one.

If you think Mark Gattiss a 'sophisticated' writer then I think any response I can give to you can only be ungracious towards your sensibilties. It's taking all my willpower to leave it at that.

Your reticence and self-sacrifice in not grabbing me by the sensibilities is much appreciated.