Exactly. Dance combined with skating.

Hayley brings more to the ice as a whole package than Ray and Beth. Beth brings more as a whole package than Ray. I'm always left feeling cold.

So, again, as you agree, it's dancing on ice.

Again, I'll be voting Hayley and if she is 3rd, I'll vote Beth.

Hayley is entertaining, Beth is nice and good but completely underwhelming with no wow factor, and Ray is a cocky arrogant git. So I don't care its its meant to be dancing on ice, skating on ice or anything else on ice, Hayley gets my vote as she's the most likeable and enjoyable one to watch. You can be the best there's ever been at something, but if you come across as thoroughly unlikeable, egotistical and up yourself nobody will want to see you succeed.

Beth's the best, for me. I engage in her routines and I'm left wanting more. I can take or leave Ray's and Hayley's. It's all subjective.


Didn't he say he was "shocked to the bones" at one point?


When does Hayley dance on ice? I only ever see her dance in Dan's arms

No she falls into his arms. She makes faces and acts. You're right she doesn't dance either. The flying routine was so simple.

This sounds more like big brother than doi forum I just hope the best one wins

Perhaps it should be named the 'champion of champions of personality and likeablility' instead then...scrap T&D and get some psychologists in to give their remarks. Would seem more relevent.

You could say that about any reality show.

Natalie was clearly the best dancer on Strictly in the latest series, she lost.
The X Factor produces the most rubbish winners ever. They're all so bland and win because of their personality. Only exception to this is probably when James Arthur bizarrely won. He wasn't just rubbish, but his personality was crap, too. Oh, and Leona, she was obviously the best.
The Voice winner last year was quite clearly the weakest vocalist in the final, yet she still won.

It's part of the deal when you enter these shows (as a contestant and a viewer). Unless this is your first ever reality TV experience, why are you surprised by this?

I've been trying to vote for the best skater for the past few weeks but they never advertise Todd's voting number.

Not surprised, I'm well aware its a factor, I was responding to your post where the content was purely on their personalities. Of course personality will come into it....I just think the degree to which its coming into it (not to mention the judges personalities and the degree to which that seems to be involved in the voting now too! LOL) is too much. Of course thats the way it is, doesn't mean I like it.

And I agree its the same with every reality show...just as likely if not more likely that you'll get votes if you make a mistake, are criticised heavily by the judges, cry, or get sick than if you put in a great performance.

No, but the show, or any show of this sort, is a popularity contest as much as anything. If you have an awful personality and don't come across as very nice people aren't going to want to see you win, no matter if you are the best one there or not. And if you are so swollen headed that people can practically see the arrogance radiating off you in waves their going to want to knock the wind out if your sails more than ever. Just like the school play brat who thinks their more superior than everyone else, whilst their good, their so damned dislike-able that rather than wanting them to do well, your praying that they will go flying off the stage to bring them down a few (hundred) notches

I agree with the OP. This should be about who's the best ice dancer (skating ability and performance combined). For me, that person is Ray by a country mile. Even if he is "an arrogant git" (which I don't think he is, by the way), he'd still get my vote for being the best. Beth's very popular with the public because she comes across as being humble in addition to being a technically good skater. However, she lacks the wow factor in her performance, which is why I don't think she should win. I hope Ray wins, simply because I think he's the best all-round skater.

can't stand Hayley - manic grinning can't skate on her own

I know I'm in the minority I just see all of the celebs that are left as pretty likeable, and certainly none of them horrible enough to be thoroughly dislikeable, and I'm irritated not so much about the degree to which personality is being so influential, but that so many other factors other than performance and ability seem to be effecting the vote too. I am aware that its inevitable with this type of show, and I shouldn't be surprised by it, but I can't help but complain about it too

You know, based on this forum tonight I would like to see Beth finish third. Some of her supporters would appear to be really unpleasant people.

Natalie was overhyped by the judges. . Her acting and lack of chemistry was open to be beaten by someone more charismatic, a better journey story and a better routine. The winner wasn't a silly option, or someone out of the top 3 dancers there. Its doubtful if this DOI has the top 3 left in, doubtful if skating matters much to the soap vote, and doubtful if any alternative to Ray is as convincing a winner as Abbey.

X factor and the Voice are pretty interchangeable. Neither can produce good saleable winners because the. vote defaults elsewhere - females with stories and weak male competition, or pretty males. Leona is the exception of someone talented who can sing and sell. It doesn't matter - because no one cares who won the Voice and the x factor picks up whoever can sell wherever they come - One Direction can't win with an older X factor audience - but they have probably made Simon more than anyone - even though most of them can't sing. DOI is more narrowly focused - it either gets a credible winner or it has no point.

DOi has also been much better than many shows at getting credible finalists. Its had a decent record of getting the top 2 to the last two - except in the first and 4th series. The marking started to go OTT over Mathew W and then went completely OTT for Matt L last series. This series takes the marking mess much further. Its also been a disaster as a competition - the first series to lose two major contenders to twists. The first to have the judging criticised by T and D, the celebs and the pros so much. Its also the first to set up who the top contenders were only to lose one, and to point out how weak its remaining contender was - before giving her full marks for being weak. As reality shows go its pretty unique, and, compared with past DOI's, its ending in a fiasco- rather than with a champion of champions.

I will vote for Haley.

Bit in bold: I don't think this can be said for anyone remaining in this series, though. Those who feel Beth is being unfairly treated obviously think she's better than the marks/comments she's receiving... hence believing she's being unfairly treated. So, if they genuinely feel that way, they aren't voting for her because she's getting a tough deal, but because they think she's actually good.


Whatever you do, don't go looking at the Dancing on Ice Facebook page comments, or you may feel you want Beth to win... There's some vile people on there. It's all the more shocking considering they're not anonymous.


Can't agree with that at all!

Natalie wasn't overhyped. She topped the leaderboard until near the end for a reason - she was simply the best. If you're the best, you're the best. The judges were pretty mean with their scores towards her, to be honest. Usually, the gap between her and second would be very small, when she was heads and shoulders above the rest. Abbey wasn't a worthy winner, her Salsa that received four 10's was atrocious and compared to Natalie, she was a silly winner. Abbey deserved her place in the final, no doubt about that, but not the trophy.

As for Susanna and Sophie, dreadful finalists. Sophie had one decent routine, Susanna was the one who was overhyped, not Natalie.

I agree with your Dancing on Ice final three comments, though. It's clear that Hayley shouldn't be there, and it's debatable whether Beth should be there.

Ray, Suzanne, Jorgie, Beth and Sam are the only five of the 14 that competed this year that I'd say deserved a place in the final three. The twist screwed Suzanne over so we can't really blame the public for that, whilst Jorgie was also screwed over by the show, too. So, 2/3 ain't bad. I know it's an All Stars series so it's unfair to compare, but if you compare it to any other final three, there's not much difference between this year and every other year's finalists in terms of ability.

It's odd normally if a male contender wins the (mainly female) voters are accused of simply voting for the prettiest male even though there are better female contestants.

This time the best contestant is Ray but the winner will like be a female. Funny that.

I don't really mind now who wins the programmes a farce. How can the audience be expected to vote for the best when the judges don't.

I didn't think Ray looked angry or arrogantly cheesed off or anything like that at the scores he got. He looked disappointed with himself, not with anyone else or his scores. He said himself he deserved lower marks for that flying routine (which is the only routine of his I haven't liked very much). Everyone's got a weak point, and that was Ray's, and he knew it and reacted accordingly.

Typical British public voting for popularity instead of the best skater, yes it is a reality show and that is the reason the best skater should win. Closed eyed fake Hayley getting votes because she has lots of Twitter fans and people call Ray cocky. Hayley wants to win at any means, it would be a false win if she does. Fake smile. Let her skate on her own again. Just because she was better flying than skating does not make her a winner, girls are always better at the flying part. Just hope the British public wake up and vote for the best skater not the one being supported by her partner. Ray is a perfectionist and was annoyed with himself for not doing his best, not because he did not get 10's, he said he was glad that was over, he did not like flying, he is a good skater on the ice not flying around like a fairy.

Well I have allowed myself 10 votes for Ray next week - and 5 for Beth.

I know without even seeing the show that they will be the best skaters and ice dancers.

The arm waving gurning champion of "Dancing on Toepicks" won't be getting any from me - she doesn't deserve to be there and if she finishes anywhere other than 3rd it will be a complete travesty!

I couldn't have put it better. Agree with everything you said. Thank you for talking sense.

I'm a Beth supporter and I'm not an unpleasant person.

In fact, I've said before, I won't be disappointed if Ray wins and Beth comes second. I will admit I won't be as happy if Hayley wins, because her skating appears to be quite poor this series, and because I think she has been overmarked on several occasions, but I won't be gnashing my teeth about that either.

But like others, I see this as a reality show and there is a certain 'package' that reality show voters look for.
And this season has given them the lot:
[LIST][*]Pre-skate VT's designed to either gain or take away support from certain celebrities.[*]A couple of on-ice romances which have been over-played to the disadvantage of the contestants involved.[*]A couple of celebrities who couldn't skate, for the 'funny' factor.[*]At least one soap star guaranteed to make the final almost on acting skills alone.[*]A 'one-off' skating celeb who is undoubtedly a great ice dancer, but who appeared (until this week anyway) to be given a 'free pass' to the final, so we have been given a rather one-dimensional picture of his personality.[*]A 'journey' skater who constantly battles to achive better and copes with everything thrown at her, but this is never enough for the judges.[*]Judges who appear, at times, not to have a clue about how to mark and as a result appear very biased.[*]And now we have true ice dancing champions (and 'national treasures') now disputing what the judges say.[*]All guaranteed to keep (and hopefully achieve more) public interest and social media chatter.
[/LIST]And most important of all, from a financial point of view, a public favourite who, for the last 3 weeks or so has been bottom or near bottom of the leader board - guaranteed to get those votes coming in....

You may, quite rightly I think, say that DOI is an outdated format which is now past its sell-by date, but you have to commend the producers for a job well done...

And that's why I'm voting for Beth.
She has always been my favourite. It's not a reaction to the judges undermarking her (although I have been sucked into having to vote more for her because of this). I simply think she is the best all round skating celeb on the program.

This isn't just an 'ice dancing show', otherwise none of the finalists would qualify (even Ray).
It's a reality show with skating celebs.
And, because I want to, I'll vote accordingly.

@via_487

I would say that I did say "some" as I would not tar all with the same brush. I did find some of the vitriol directed to Ray and Hayley as a bit OTT and not altogether called for.

I would agree that the producers can indeed congratulate themselves on a job well done. I am just surprised so many have fallen for the hype. Does anyone really believe that the judges and producers really do not know what impact Beth bashing has on the voters? Is it really coincidence that Chris said what he said? Clearly they wanted Beth in the final along with Hayley and Ray. Sam was out regardless of who was there with him. And by having Ray in the SO they guarantee more votes next week for him. RESULT,

If anyone really believes that the Beth bashing is real please PM me as I have a Nigerian friend who would love to do a business deal with you.

Ok then


Now that's the bit that makes me wonder....
I would like to think that Chris (and later Jayne) was genuine in his remarks and that the producers saw this as a great opportunity to highlight, with a later pre-results interview. But I'm not sure...
About guaranteeing Ray votes for next week, I absolutely agree with.


Is that the nice man who helped my dad get much more out of his pension plan?