I think you're trying to see the worst in Ray. I haven't seen him "slag off" anyone. Ray comes across to me as a nice person but rightly confident in his abilities. Beth hasn't come from a skating background, but she's used to performing as a gymnast (floor exercise?) and has that fearlessness which, in itself, is an advantage when it comes to skating. If you think she deserves to win, that's fine. I think Ray does simply because he's the best skater. No other factors come into it. If they were in Big Brother (which is a popularity contest), I might feel differently.

And no, I'm not Jason . We agree (as probably the rest of the Ice Panel do) about Ray, but that's about the only thing we have in common! (I realise it was a different poster who made the Jason remark.)

Why are you saying that again when i've quoted twice before what he said - I don't get it.

I'll quote what he said "...i'd prepared myself to be honest, I knew I was a bit vulnerable tonight, everyone skated really really well..."

My point was we are on this forum to discuss a TV show and obviously we all have are favourites and feel passionately about it and should be allowed to discuss the judges / contestants / routines etc. I'm just saying don't say things like "Beth fans are unpleasant" as it's aimed at someone who's not on the TV show but commenting on it.

Like I said earlier, saying Sam was the worst person to be up against and saying he was shocked to the bones to be in the bottom two to me said I shouldn't be here nor should Sam so therefore the girls should be which I found slightly disrespectful as he didn't go congrats girls, good luck Sam but instead indirectly criticised the girls and the public's decisions just like Robin and Jason did.

Where is the "head shaking" emoticon when you need it? Let's just leave it as you seem to have made your mind up regardless of what was actually said.

Ray is complimentary to everyone and not in a cheesey, false way but a genuine way (obviously imo). Thats what I've seen on the show, in backstage footage and in his blogs and tweets too. Hes a perfectionist and a hardworker and takes delight in getting good results. Hes a good sport as hes shown before when losing out on xfactor. I have in no way see him to be even remotely arrogant or rude to anyone...on the contrary he seems delighted and appreciative to be in each week, always thanks everyone, states how good the competition is. He loves to 'perform' which is his talent, and I'm wondering if people are perceiving his confidence in performing to his best on the ice as being associated with 'showing off'. I guess we're never going to change our opinions on who we like and dislike, but I'm quite surprised at reading peoples 'glee' in seeing him 'suffer' at being in the skate off??? In terms of personality and character, I'd suggest it says more about the people with these views than it does about Ray himself.

To be fair, Katie, it's very difficult to be put on the spot like that. He was praising Sam rather than criticising the girls. Give him a little leeway. He did say he prepared himself to be in the bottom two, but he found the experience shocked him. You don't need to find fault with Ray's personality to put Beth's case across. Beth's skating should speak for itself.

My point still stands, I think Ray came across badly in his interview with Phil saying he was shocked to be in the skate off and felt Sam was superior to the others. It just seemed a bit rude towards the public saying they voted incorrectly and the girls essentially should've been in the skate off instead. As you said earlier, you didn't see the interview with Phil so I'm just telling you what was said and my take on it.

I agree with you so much, particularly your last sentence. The skating should speak for itself.

Also I'm not exactly expressing glee in seeing him being in the skate off (not sure if this is even aimed at me) to be honest I think Hayley and Sam should've been in the skate off even though it was very close tonight. I just don't think Ray came across too well in his interview with Phil.

This is part of the problem I have here is that you are not saying what was said, it's your interpretation put into words having been said, two very different things.

Ray was being interviewed at one of the most stressful times of his life, when he risked being put out of the competition and I'm sure his intention was to indicate how good Sam was than to be thinking about having digs at Hayley or Beth at this time. Going by how Ray has been towards all the contestants in the show so far leads me to that conclusion. However people are going to read into it what they will...

Well I'm not going to convince you otherwise. No I was not talking about you...I was talking about people who 'expressed glee at seeing Ray suffer'. If you didn't do this, then it wouldn't be you

I took a direct quote from what he said to Phil and then I said my opinion on it.....


I think that's a slight exaggeration.

I know he probably meant it in a polite way to Sam but it didn't come across too well towards the public by saying they voted badly, Hayley or Beth. To me saying you're shocked at being in the bottom two after being 2nd/4 and having a 50% chance being in the bottom two and then saying your shocked at being there comes across quite badly. Robin and Jason were just as bad though.

Okay....stressful times then - stressful enough not to be thinking about showing off, or having digs at Hayley and Beth, put it that way. I just can't share your opinion about what you've read into what he said, so I'll leave it there

Back to the OPs point I hope Beth wins too, she's my favourite after Jorgie went, then Suzanne went and then Kyran went and Chris and Laura aren't in the contest so yes Beth to win.

1st BIB - You selected some words that he had said yes but then added some of your own as if he had actually said them aswell when he didn't.

2nd BIB being an example of what i'm getting at.

I just think it unfair for someone to say he said this, that or the other when he didn't as some of it is your words not his. Anyway, I give up, what's that point - none it seems!

1 His exact words were he couldn't have came across anyone worse than Sam to skate against ...to me that comment was all about Sam - complimenting his ability and performance at skate-offs and was just a reactive comment in response to how he was feeling at the time after seeing him perform so well in the skate off and feeling insecure. I'm sure even thinking of Hayley and Beth, never mind trying to have a dig at them at that particular time was furthest from his mind,. especially as he has shown since the beginning of the show, from his blogs etc that its not in his character to be like that, he likes to big up everyone.

2 He didn't say he was shocked to be in the bottom 2, he said 'it was a shock to the bones' and it was in the context of him feeling nervous about skating and performing as he had never been in it before. Ray knows how reality shows work, hes done the xfactor, hes well aware he was up against Hayley and Beth, who have never been in the bottom two even when bottom of the leaderboard or with lower marks, knows they have the public vote and are popular, have much more followers on him on twitter etc that Dan has huge support too. All the celebs and the public know that including Ray. Hes not daft, of course he wouldn't be surprised from a voting point of view.

To me he was expressing how shocking it feels to experience the skate-off - he was feeling vulnerable and nervous about it due to being inexperienced at skate-offs and was aware that Sam was very experienced at it. It had nothing to do with actually feeling 'shocked' that he hadn't been voted through by the public. For me, it was clear by his demeanour alone that that was what he meant.

Exactly.

I'm guessing Ray is your favourite then? I still think him saying being in the skate off was a shock to the bones made him come across as arrogant.

As for your point about Hayley and Beth getting through because of Dan I doubt that considering one isn't even partnered with him. I doubt Beth and Hayley are getting through solely because of their fanbases they brought with them to the show either. Hayley is in Coronation Street - a show Zaraah was in and Zaraah was in several skate offs in both her series where she wasn't in the bottom two with the public. Sam was in a soap just as big and found himself in 5 skate offs this series. Beth is known for being an Olympian - Sharron Davies, Chemmy Alcott and Kelly Holmes were arguably more famous than Beth and they both found themselves in a few skate offs so I doubt Beth is getting through solely because of her Twitter fanbase. Rebecca Adlington arguably one of the most successful Olympians at 2012 only finished 6th? or so on I'm A Celeb which is a popularity contest. Beth is voted because she seems humble, and actually does new things every week.

Please read my post again...I did not say Beth got through because of Dan, neither did I say that Beth and Hayley are getting through solely on their fanbases??? I'm beginning to understand why you 'interpreted' Rays comments as you did a bit more. All the points you make in the above post have nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I merely listed a whole range of factors, known to everyone, which indicate that Hayley and Beth are popular with the public - but the bottom line being they have never been in the skate off even when being bottom of the leaderboard. That was my point. I'm not interested in beginning another debate about the reasons why they're popular, I was responding to your claim that Ray was arrogant and expecting to get through to the final. My point was that It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that they're popular...the public know it, the celebrities know it, we all know it. And of course Ray knows it too...being up against the pair of them, of course he wouldn't be surprised that the public vote went their way, let alone 'shocked'.

I merely stated that perhaps Beth & Hayley are getting through as they don't come across as badly as Ray and are more likeable hence get the votes. Beth & Hayley in my opinion are getting the votes because they have learnt a new skill and come across well, not just because of their pre-existing fanbase or because of Daniel.

ETA: Also yes I can read.

Fine...its just that the discussion we'd been having had got nothing to do with the reasons why people are popular?

People were responding to your claim that Ray was arrogant and shocked to be in the bottom two. That was the topic.

I was pointing out that everyone knows that Hayley and Beth are popular with the public - its been talked about by the celebs, they've never been in the skate-off despite low positions on the leaderboard, its a known fact. Ray is not daft, he knows they are popular, knows how reality shows work, therefore he wouldn't be surprised to be beaten by them in a public vote, never mind shocked. I've explained the reasons why I feel he is not arrogant in the post I made above, he was just nervous at being in the skate off for the first time. You obviously disagree, and I'm starting to repeat myself so we'll agree to disagree on that ..and .I'm not interested in starting to argue about a completely different topic about the reasons why they are popular.

Hayley was in Emmerdale originally. She went into Coronation St recently. So she basically has the support of two soap fanbases. Zaraah was in Coronation Street a while ago, and I suspect many people couldn't name the character she played. She also didn't win her series, which shows that she wasn't even getting the votes back then. The public haven't taken to Sam this series.

Rebecca Adlington didn't come across that well on IAC, and her Olympic success was in 2008, not 2012. Beth was one of the London 2012 success stories. The other olympians you mentioned, who appeared on DOI, just weren't good at moving around gracefully on the ice.

I want Beth to win because I think she adds new tricks each week and genuinely "wows" me each time she skates. Ray may be technically better and i can see why he gets high marks, but overall Beth is the best in my humble opinion. Hayley has been great, but was surprised how poor her solo skate was.

Ray was definitely not slagging off Beth or Hayley. He was just praising Sam and saying he was a difficult opponent in the skate off because he has been improving and has survived 4 skate offs.

Wow....lovely to read such a reasonable and balanced post. Its nice to hear that you're supporting Beth for no reason other than you prefer her performances to the rest (I feel the same way about Ray).

Its also nice to see that you can still support Beth without feeling the need to detest every aspect of Hayleys existence or believe that Ray is the spawn of Satan either