"Clara ask's me some times if I dream. Of course I dream, everybody dreams I tell her. What do you dream about she'll ask. Same thing everybody dreams about I'll tell her. I dream about where I'm going. She always laugh's at that "but your not going anywhere, your just wandering about" that's not true, not any more. I have a new destination. My journey is the same as yours, then same as anyone's. It's taken me so many years so many lifetimes but at last I know where I'm going, where i've always been going- home - the long way around"

This to me is a very muddled speech. on one hand he says "not anymore. I have a new destination" implying that it's only now because of recent event's he's heading to find gallifrey, but then on the other hand you've got "it's taken me so many years, so many lifetimes, but at last I know where I'm going, where I've always been going" which coupled with showing all the doctors implies that this was the underlying point of his entire journey and he's only just realised it. Obviously this makes no sense because doctors 1-8 could go to gallifrey any time they wanted, and frequently did.

Seems to me this was an attempt to show some grand plan behind the doctors journey that wasn't really thought out, as the desire to find gallifrey is only really relevant for the new who doctors.

I know it was only a fancy intended as a fancy bit of grandure at the end, but the conflicting nature of what was said annoys me every time I hear it

I don't have much of a problem with it. They do say that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone. What I read into it was that whereas his adventures were initially always random and he never really knew what he was doing or where he was going, now he feels that, because he is aware that Gallifrey is no longer gone, his travels have more of a focus; he's finally worked out what he's going to do with his life, so to speak. It was the pain of losing Gallifrey, his home, and then realising that it wasn't lost as he had previously thought which had inspired this epiphany.
Yes, it's primarily a grandiose way of ending the anniversary special, but I don't think it's as nonsensical and confused as you make it out to be.

" I have a new destination"

Vs

"I know where I'm going, where I've always been going"

That's all I'm saying, the whole text seem's to conflict and contradict itself. maybe I'm just taking it too seriously.

It's hyperbole: exaggeration for dramatic effect.

Of course he is referring to the Long Way Round with Ewan McG and Charley B in 2004.

He's going to Mongolia.

That's kind of what I was getting at. it's a recent occurance and a new situation, and yet in the pursuit of making the whole thing grandiose it's exaggerated to sound as though it was his entire life's mission which he has only just realised. I don't hate it per say, just find it inaccurate. Oh well, artistic licence and all that I suppose.

But look at it this way - He (with his other regenerations) just pulled off saving his entire planet and his entire civilization, just met his future self (the curator) who pretty much just gave him his next mission - Find Gallifrey. Of course he is going to feel as though it is his life's mission at that point and it would give him direction.

What I think really blew it for the Doctor was when the Timelords sent out the message through the crack in the universe that started all of those problems for the Doctor. They should have just sat back and waited. But then he may not have gotten his next set of regenerations. And so the story continues.

What gets me is that the Doctor was originally trying to get away from the blighters! He wanted nothing to do with them!

It makes perfect sense and isn't confused at all. Unless you want to be extremely literal minded and simplistic about it.

This!

I've done a lot of travelling and even when I never wanted to go back I always knew I'd end up up "home"


ps Will people stop automatically assuming the Curator is a future Doctor.

I take it to mean that that was always where he was heading, he just didn't know it

The Doctor spent his life running away from Gallifrey. Any time he came back, it was because he was summoned, or forced against his will. Even when he was accepted as their President, he ran away from the responsibility.

Now he's actively seeking them out - returning as a saviour, not as an outcast.

You are obsessed with Motorbikes :

That and it has been what nearly 1200 years since he was last home (dependant on his age at the end of his time on Trenzalore) when he was the War Doctor.

His outlook on home has to have changed since then!

Won't stop him running at the first opportunity tho

Personally I don't dream and I don't dream of going home either.

Maybe I would though if I thought it was all coming to an end, all my lives, no more incarnations.

Maybe if I was a timelord who ran away from my home planet because they were all a bunch of bores, then spent a lot of my life thinking I'd killed them all, then found out I could send a message back through my previous lives to actually save them (even that first life the one who ran away to begin with) , that now I have unfinished business, I owed it to them and myself to bring them back to our universe, their home universe.

Who nose.

Why yes, yes I am.

The Doctor rides a Triumph, of course

Triumphs are cool

Couldn't agree more. He even made a big deal in the end of time about how he wouldn't want them back after what they became towards the end of the time war


I'm not being simplistic, I can allow for a certain amount of artistic leeway and symbology otherwise i'd be asking where he was standing with his other selves as some might. I was simply saying that what is presented in this speech seems contradictory and inaccurate. At one point he says "clara says I'm just wandering" and he says "not any more" clearing indicating that he has now changed his life path from wandering to having a purpose, but then completely contradicts that by saying it's where he's always being going, when that wasn't the case. Even if you think he meant as in a destiny sort of way, that dosen't really work in the show's timey wimey, nothing is decided, time can be rewritten type of universe.

Aside from all that, I don't buy it anyway, for two reason's

1) It's not like he's going to be actively chasing down gallifrey every episode, most likely he will continue 'wandering' as he always has for the most part, with the search for gallifrey maybe getting the occasional mention.

2) If he does find it, he's never going to stay there. I wouldn't call something my destination or going home, if I only wanted to find it, check it's okay and then run off again. More of just another thing to add to his wandering to do list, a brief pit stop really.

I wouldn't say that speech was 'muddled', so much as I would say it was 'tacky'

Of course there's alot of dramatic license in there. Its meant more as a slightly whimsical, melancholy and thoughtful mediation on his own destiny or that's how I interpreted it. After all the Last of the Timelord stuff, guilt and navel gazing about the 'genocide' he committed and the seemingly random wondering he has done for so long finally he feels a renewed sense of purpose. A sense of direction. And though he didn't realize it this was where it was leading. Going home. That doesn't mean that was always his intention or every previous action was designed to lead to this. Just that this is how its worked out. And after all the angst and conflict with the Timelords and his feeling of isolation and loneliness its understandable this would have a profound meaning for the Doctor. Even as a purely narrative device its nice and circular. He began by running away and has run ever since. And now he's ready to 'go home' or at least find it. For the purposes of the Fiftieth it worked perfectly.

I don't always agree with your point of view, but in my opinion you summed this up very nicely.

It was a great idea for the 50th, and it fit very nicely with everything that Moff had done previously.

It's not so much a musing on destiny, but a realisation that he can't always run forever, and in fact doesn't need to. He's always been the one that rides into a situation on a wave of chaos, defuses it, and then waltzes off. He's never been one to plan for the future, or have an intention, he just does what needs to be done.

To get a bit more philosophical for a minute, and delve into recent themes in the series - in Series 6 he realised that he'd been running from his fate too long, and that he needed to face it and accept it. To an extent, this also happened in the 'knock four times' arc. By the end of Series 6, or at least the Christmas special, he also accepted a place in Amy and Rory's home, and family (of sorts). He's starting to realise that he can travel, and still have a place to call home.

He's always been proud of his race, and his heritage, but Gallifrey has always been the place where he's from, never his home.

Just the very fact that he stayed on Trenzalore for centuries to protect it, is something he would never have done before. It doesn't mean that he's going to stay on Gallifrey forever, but he can still come to think of it as home.

Think we should have at least a glimpse of it. If or when he ever finds it a lot will have probably changed. Because of his regenerations they wouldn't recognise him for a start.
Don't know if it would be a good or bad thing for him to visit. Interesting idea for a christmas or easter special though. Isn't that what we do durring holidays go home?.