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Hayley's 'performance skills' |
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#1 |
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Hayley's 'performance skills'
I've noticed that those (correctly) criticising Hayley's presence in the final of an ice-dancing competition - given that she can't skate - routinely concede that she always gives a good performance. I find this baffling.
I had to pull the television away from the wall last weekend when she was dressed in the white knickers to let the syrup and cheese flow down the wall. It had overloaded. How do people equate this open-mouthed gurning and rictus-inducing fake-smiling with 'performance skills'? ![]() Hayley's a 'good performer' in much the same way as my over-enthusiastic six year old made a wonderful sheep in last year's Christmas play. Y'all need to go and watch some real performances. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
I've noticed that those (correctly) criticising Hayley's presence in the final of an ice-dancing competition - given that she can't skate - routinely concede that she always gives a good performance. I find this baffling.
I had to pull the television away from the wall last weekend when she was dressed in the white knickers to let the syrup and cheese flow down the wall. It had overloaded. How do people equate this open-mouthed gurning and rictus-inducing fake-smiling with 'performance skills'? ![]() Hayley's a 'good performer' in much the same way as my over-enthusiastic six year old made a wonderful sheep in last year's Christmas play. Y'all need to go and watch some real performances. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Thirded!
never did see why frantic arm waving, cheesy grins an dancing madly on toepicks in one place equals great performing. i much prefer the less manic presentation of Ray and Beth which they both combine with lots of SKATING! Dear Ice panel - please put on your specs and actually SEE whats in front of your eyes - or maybe you need to get some goggles which allow you to see through the smoke and mirrors of Hayley's performances. Take away the OTT showmanship - and there is nothing there to rate! Her "dancing on ice" is so minimal that she might as well be standing on a floor... Ray and Beth actually do dancing on ice - with lots of skating moves - Hayley doesn't! |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
I've noticed that those (correctly) criticising Hayley's presence in the final of an ice-dancing competition - given that she can't skate - routinely concede that she always gives a good performance. I find this baffling.
I had to pull the television away from the wall last weekend when she was dressed in the white knickers to let the syrup and cheese flow down the wall. It had overloaded. How do people equate this open-mouthed gurning and rictus-inducing fake-smiling with 'performance skills'? ![]() Hayley's a 'good performer' in much the same way as my over-enthusiastic six year old made a wonderful sheep in last year's Christmas play. Y'all need to go and watch some real performances. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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I don't appreciate Hayley's 'performance' either, and I don't think the word 'subtle' is in her vocabulary.
But that's what Theatre is, isn't it? When most people watching are so far away, you have to exaggerate every move, and every facial expression, and that's what Hayley would have been taught to do all through her stage school. As much as I'm in the 'anyone but Hayley to win' camp, she's getting the results she's after, so she must be doing something right. |
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#6 |
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Hayley's performance skills seems consist of little more than jazz hands and gurning...,
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#7 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Do we really need another Hayley bashing thread? There are plenty of others to choose from.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Clearly a lot of people must disagree with this thread because - unless I'm mistaken - she has never landed in the skate off, and, has already been proven, being high on the leaderboard after the judges scores is not enough to keep a celeb out of the bottom 2.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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Quote:
I've noticed that those (correctly) criticising Hayley's presence in the final of an ice-dancing competition - given that she can't skate - routinely concede that she always gives a good performance. I find this baffling.
I had to pull the television away from the wall last weekend when she was dressed in the white knickers to let the syrup and cheese flow down the wall. It had overloaded. How do people equate this open-mouthed gurning and rictus-inducing fake-smiling with 'performance skills'? ![]() Hayley's a 'good performer' in much the same way as my over-enthusiastic six year old made a wonderful sheep in last year's Christmas play. Y'all need to go and watch some real performances. Performance skills are difficult to asses though. . Some work better in different settings. People trained to work on stage sometimes look right to rows N and Z - but OTT on a camera close up. Some roles can be played OTT, some require it. Some people play one character all their career - others play themselves every job. - it works if it fits the role. Performance also covers dance skills and style - and Hayley is a trained dancer who you might expect to do well there. It may be cheesy, but its precise too. On DOI it depends on what the routine is - and what acting it leads to, and whether you like the outcome. Hayley tends to get routines that work for most people, and her acting range. My bigger problem is that Hayley tends to get few roles - OTT American (As last week and in her Charleston) and romantic lead ( where she does silent film star) She then gets marks thrown at her for distinctive characters she can do - with lots of similar dance steps and a very few simple tricks and lifts. Bonnie, or Suzanne could do the same routines/play the same roles as well or better, and might be able to do more roles, and tricks,given the chance. I've seen all three act on stage, two in the same role, and Hayley wasn't the one who was doing the subtler tones. Zaraah and Jorgie might have been able to manage them too. No one else but Hayley got those routines. That leads to problems two, three, and four. Because Hayley has the strong dance routine she can act ,somone else gets the more difficult, less well choregraphed, numbers ,and new moves. They then have to concentrate on mastering the difficulty. Hayley however stays in her comfort zone and can concentrate on her acting. I think she does what she does pretty well. You just can't mark it so highly by ignoring difficulty, or disadvantage all the competition by not tailoring things as well to their strengths, by giving them much more to learn, and by never giving them routines like hers. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Hayley's performance skills are way over the top, perhaps in order to hide the fact that she can't actually skate very well. She's one of the weakest skaters in this year's competition, certainly the weakest of the former champions. Regardless of what Jason says, Hayley is most definitely NOT the complete package. She's all style and no substance. Her routines are all jazz hands and not much skating content. Not to mention she rarely lets go of Dan to skate unassisted.
She's also the only one who has consistently been given routines designed to play to her strengths instead of challenging and stretching her, whereas Bonnie, Suzanne, Sam, Kyran and Beth all had to struggle with routines that didn't suit them in the slightest. Perhaps if Hayley had been given a different partner this year, it might have been better for her. Beth has done much better with Luk than Dan. The problem is that while Dan is a nice guy, he always seems to make his partners very dependent on him. When he was paired with Linda Lusardi and Emily Symons, both of them hated not to be in hold with him, even if, as Jayne, Chris and Karen said with both of them, they were only holding one finger. Hayley is a better skater than either of them were but she's still very dependent on Dan. Beth and Suzanne (although Suzanne was the right elimination that week, given that she messed up the skate off) are both far better skaters than Hayley but aren't given credit for it. I think Gaynor Faye also, when I saw her on the tour, was far better with Matt than Dan. She was certainly more confident than Hayley, given that her routines with Matt had quite a lot of skating out of hold. There's seems to be a lot of bias towards Hayley and against Beth from the judges and for the life of me, I can't understand it. There's always some bias from the judges but this year it's been overly blatant. I'm glad the final is scored solely on the public vote. I rather Beth will be out first, unfortunately, but I hope that Ray will win. I'm not an enormous fan of him but he's so good (he really is the complete package!) that I would actually be disappointed if he didn't win. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
I don't appreciate Hayley's 'performance' either, and I don't think the word 'subtle' is in her vocabulary.
But that's what Theatre is, isn't it? When most people watching are so far away, you have to exaggerate every move, and every facial expression, and that's what Hayley would have been taught to do all through her stage school. As much as I'm in the 'anyone but Hayley to win' camp, she's getting the results she's after, so she must be doing something right. DOI has a problem with poor camera work too - that doesn't help - particularly if the routine hasn't been rehearsed for the camera. Look at Suzanne's routine she couldn't do the dress rehearsal for, and several of the skate off routines where people were acting their socks off in the usual places - while the camera was aimlessly pointed elsewhere. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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One of the major problems is that no one on the judging team is qualified to mark acting, and that adds to the other issues that no one marks the entire performance for wow factor, and they do mark the routine - not the performance or its difficulty. Robin's acting isn't great. Karen and Ashley don't act - Emma was better qualified to mark that than any of them. Jason is a dancer who was a dance captain - not a major director, or a lead actor. He comments on dancing minutiae - which he is qualified to do - but his forays into judging acting have no more merit than anyone elses. The show actually recognised that poroblem by adding Ruthie, but people didn't like someone who knew acting telling them who wasn't that good.
Performance skills are difficult to asses though. . Some work better in different settings. People trained to work on stage sometimes look right to rows N and Z - but OTT on a camera close up. Some roles can be played OTT, some require it. Some people play one character all their career - others play themselves every job. - it works if it fits the role. Performance also covers dance skills and style - and Hayley is a trained dancer who you might expect to do well there. It may be cheesy, but its precise too. On DOI it depends on what the routine is - and what acting it leads to, and whether you like the outcome. Hayley tends to get routines that work for most people, and her acting range. My bigger problem is that Hayley tends to get few roles - OTT American (As last week and in her Charleston) and romantic lead ( where she does silent film star) She then gets marks thrown at her for distinctive characters she can do - with lots of similar dance steps and a very few simple tricks and lifts. Bonnie, or Suzanne could do the same routines/play the same roles as well or better, and might be able to do more roles, and tricks,given the chance. I've seen all three act on stage, two in the same role, and Hayley wasn't the one who was doing the subtler tones. Zaraah and Jorgie might have been able to manage them too. No one else but Hayley got those routines. That leads to problems two, three, and four. Because Hayley has the strong dance routine she can act ,somone else gets the more difficult, less well choregraphed, numbers ,and new moves. They then have to concentrate on mastering the difficulty. Hayley however stays in her comfort zone and can concentrate on her acting. I think she does what she does pretty well. You just can't mark it so highly by ignoring difficulty, or disadvantage all the competition by not tailoring things as well to their strengths, by giving them much more to learn, and by never giving them routines like hers. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,239
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Hayley does nothing for me - I find her OTT. However, she clearly gives a performance whether it's to one's taste or not. She isn't bland or stilted and knows how to captivate those who like her style.
I've given up trying to understand why people do like her style because I know it's never going to appeal to me and I'm on a hiding to nothing. I don't think anyone can learn to understand something that is so completely down to personal preference. Still baffles me that there are obviously many people out there that love the way she performs so much that they're prepared to overlook an obvious lack of skating skill though .
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#14 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,441
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Quote:
I've noticed that those (correctly) criticising Hayley's presence in the final of an ice-dancing competition - given that she can't skate - routinely concede that she always gives a good performance. I find this baffling.
I had to pull the television away from the wall last weekend when she was dressed in the white knickers to let the syrup and cheese flow down the wall. It had overloaded. How do people equate this open-mouthed gurning and rictus-inducing fake-smiling with 'performance skills'? ![]() Hayley's a 'good performer' in much the same way as my over-enthusiastic six year old made a wonderful sheep in last year's Christmas play. Y'all need to go and watch some real performances. Dont let it upset you too much.......win or lose Hayley has achieved what she wanted to do for a while and shes loving it too!!!!
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#15 |
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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It totally depends on what you want to see I suppose. For me, I think Hayley always plays a good character (obviously this is because of what is given to her, but she does what she does very well). Some people prefer Beth, but I personally find her very wooden to watch, no matter how good her skating ability is.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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You mention Bonnie who is much more famous than Hayley for being on stage. I never thought that Bonnie was over the top when performing on the ice.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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And yet she through to the final with the aforementioned 'arm waving and gurning' she does every weekend. .......oh the irony
Dont let it upset you too much.......win or lose Hayley has achieved what she wanted to do for a while and shes loving it too!!!! ![]() |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Hayley does nothing for me - I find her OTT. However, she clearly gives a performance whether it's to one's taste or not. She isn't bland or stilted and knows how to captivate those who like her style.
I've given up trying to understand why people do like her style because I know it's never going to appeal to me and I'm on a hiding to nothing. I don't think anyone can learn to understand something that is so completely down to personal preference. Still baffles me that there are obviously many people out there that love the way she performs so much that they're prepared to overlook an obvious lack of skating skill though . |
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#19 |
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One of the major problems is that no one on the judging team is qualified to mark acting, and that adds to the other issues that no one marks the entire performance for wow factor, and they do mark the routine - not the performance or its difficulty. Robin's acting isn't great. Karen and Ashley don't act - Emma was better qualified to mark that than any of them. Jason is a dancer who was a dance captain - not a major director, or a lead actor. He comments on dancing minutiae - which he is qualified to do - but his forays into judging acting have no more merit than anyone elses. The show actually recognised that poroblem by adding Ruthie, but people didn't like someone who knew acting telling them who wasn't that good.
Performance skills are difficult to asses though. . Some work better in different settings. People trained to work on stage sometimes look right to rows N and Z - but OTT on a camera close up. Some roles can be played OTT, some require it. Some people play one character all their career - others play themselves every job. - it works if it fits the role. Performance also covers dance skills and style - and Hayley is a trained dancer who you might expect to do well there. It may be cheesy, but its precise too. On DOI it depends on what the routine is - and what acting it leads to, and whether you like the outcome. Hayley tends to get routines that work for most people, and her acting range. My bigger problem is that Hayley tends to get few roles - OTT American (As last week and in her Charleston) and romantic lead ( where she does silent film star) She then gets marks thrown at her for distinctive characters she can do - with lots of similar dance steps and a very few simple tricks and lifts. Bonnie, or Suzanne could do the same routines/play the same roles as well or better, and might be able to do more roles, and tricks,given the chance. I've seen all three act on stage, two in the same role, and Hayley wasn't the one who was doing the subtler tones. Zaraah and Jorgie might have been able to manage them too. No one else but Hayley got those routines. That leads to problems two, three, and four. Because Hayley has the strong dance routine she can act ,somone else gets the more difficult, less well choregraphed, numbers ,and new moves. They then have to concentrate on mastering the difficulty. Hayley however stays in her comfort zone and can concentrate on her acting. I think she does what she does pretty well. You just can't mark it so highly by ignoring difficulty, or disadvantage all the competition by not tailoring things as well to their strengths, by giving them much more to learn, and by never giving them routines like hers. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 18,686
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Quote:
One of the major problems is that no one on the judging team is qualified to mark acting, and that adds to the other issues that no one marks the entire performance for wow factor, and they do mark the routine - not the performance or its difficulty. Robin's acting isn't great. Karen and Ashley don't act - Emma was better qualified to mark that than any of them. Jason is a dancer who was a dance captain - not a major director, or a lead actor. He comments on dancing minutiae - which he is qualified to do - but his forays into judging acting have no more merit than anyone elses. The show actually recognised that poroblem by adding Ruthie, but people didn't like someone who knew acting telling them who wasn't that good.
Performance skills are difficult to asses though. . Some work better in different settings. People trained to work on stage sometimes look right to rows N and Z - but OTT on a camera close up. Some roles can be played OTT, some require it. Some people play one character all their career - others play themselves every job. - it works if it fits the role. Performance also covers dance skills and style - and Hayley is a trained dancer who you might expect to do well there. It may be cheesy, but its precise too. On DOI it depends on what the routine is - and what acting it leads to, and whether you like the outcome. Hayley tends to get routines that work for most people, and her acting range. My bigger problem is that Hayley tends to get few roles - OTT American (As last week and in her Charleston) and romantic lead ( where she does silent film star) She then gets marks thrown at her for distinctive characters she can do - with lots of similar dance steps and a very few simple tricks and lifts. Bonnie, or Suzanne could do the same routines/play the same roles as well or better, and might be able to do more roles, and tricks,given the chance. I've seen all three act on stage, two in the same role, and Hayley wasn't the one who was doing the subtler tones. Zaraah and Jorgie might have been able to manage them too. No one else but Hayley got those routines. That leads to problems two, three, and four. Because Hayley has the strong dance routine she can act ,somone else gets the more difficult, less well choregraphed, numbers ,and new moves. They then have to concentrate on mastering the difficulty. Hayley however stays in her comfort zone and can concentrate on her acting. I think she does what she does pretty well. You just can't mark it so highly by ignoring difficulty, or disadvantage all the competition by not tailoring things as well to their strengths, by giving them much more to learn, and by never giving them routines like hers. As said above, I accept that the OTT gurning appeals to some. I just can't fathom it out.
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#21 |
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Excellent post. I agree that the roles Hayley's being given on DOI are very samey and repetitive. It's also quite remarkable how little (apart from Robin, occasionally) the judges comment on her limited technical ability. They also completely ignore this in the marking.
As said above, I accept that the OTT gurning appeals to some. I just can't fathom it out. ![]() |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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It's quite baffling to me the gurning and arm waving it's just not appealing to me and she seems to me to do more or less the same 'dance' every time, added to this her skating skills appear very basic.
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#23 |
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I feel like that. It's like similar dancing and similar lifts - just a different costume and different music.
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#24 |
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Hayley's performance skills are on par with skills performed by most dance school kids
they tend to over perform facial expressions and armography either because they are on a big stage or to distract from footwork every time I watch Hayley she reminds me of the overachievers in my daughters dance school all hands, arms and teeth but nothing much else I can see her being popular with the same kind of people who love dance school competitions |
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#25 |
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Hayley does have OTT presentation skills - Bonnie too on a lesser level. I find Hayley irritating but not Bonnie, which is strange. However not all 'stage school kids' are like that as Ray was also at performing arts college prior to X Factor and his presentation is nothing like Hayley's
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