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Gay England Soccer Player to Come Out Publically This Sunday


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Old 21-03-2014, 23:49
ChristmasCake
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Honest answer please.

Did you make up that word?
No I didn't make up that word.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity
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Old 21-03-2014, 23:52
DiamondDoll
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No I didn't make up that word.
Thank you.

My late father told me to learn a new word every day so I've just fulfilled my quota.............with less than ten minutes to spare.
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Old 21-03-2014, 23:53
attackmusic
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Or maybe you should realise if you're being told things like, demons cause you to be gay, you might seek out a way to get rid of those demons.

Every message I received in my life as a young boy reinforced the idea that there is something wrong with being gay. Even down to the music, which had lovely songs singing about shooting gay people dead, or setting them on fire.

I really don't think you can understand the impact that this will have on someone struggling with their sexuality, and the reason they struggle is things like this.

If you've never received the message that it's okay to be LGBT, how do you find that out on your own?

I figured it out eventually, aged 19, after being sectioned due to a failed suicide attempt. It wasn't the first attempt, and it wasn't the last.

I've been telling you all over this thread why people may seek to try and change themselves, it's all down to the attitudes of others, but you keep ignoring.
Sorry you had such a bad experience

I agree that it is other peoples horrible attitudes that causes them to loathe themselves and want to change who they are. If you are constantly being told you are weird or wrong for who you are attracted to, then it's going to be hard for you to accept yourself.

I had a hard time admitting I was bisexual. Sadly the bigotry comes from gay people too, not just straight people often people can't stand anyone who isn't like them so they lash out. It can be hard to deal with. That's why it makes me angry when people criticise someone for not coming out sooner than they did. They have no idea how hard it is!
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Old 22-03-2014, 01:33
mseven1
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Why are you posting this? Could you not address the actual point I was making? Seeing as you missed it let me make it clearer, my point was in regards to reasons why people may not be secure in their sexuality.
My point was that evangelical Christianity believes in demons and that is why they do exorcisms in general not as a sexual thing. I mentioned before that they do not need to feel bad about their sexuality if it's a sociably acceptable so they shouldn't worry but pressuring them that they need to come out and that they are different rather than saying everyone is human but sexuality varies.

Actually, the songs I mentioned were by Jamaican Ragga artists.
76.3% of Jamaicans are of African descent and so that would qualify as being of African heritage.

All you keep doing is ignoring the point I'm making and bleating on about it being no different. I agree, it should be treated the same, that's exactly what I want, cultural norms mean that people are assumed straight unless they say otherwise..

You can pretend this isn't an issue if you want, but it is.
Like I said with interracial relationship acceptance they didn't make out they were different, they were saying that we are all the same, it's just that they prefer people of a different race.

What does that have to do with me being able to empathise with Tom Daley in regards to his coming out? Money makes no difference to coming out, and when you mentioned Tom and empathy, we were talking about people in the public eye with whom LGBT teens can identify.
Tom Daley is known world wide, is worth millions of pounds and is a diver that has represented his country in many diving events. The majority of people aren't any of these so they can't empathise with him because their experience would be different.

The mentions are irrelevant it's the attitudes that they have that are important.
But you are criticising them for being homophobic when the bible condemns heterosexuality 175 times for every one time homosexuality is condemned. You could say most sex books involving heterosexuality condemns homosexuality.

That doesn't make it similar.
He married a woman he wasn't sexually attracted to and later went in to a relationship with someone he was attracted to. How is it not similar? It is claims like that which creates a bigger acceptance gap.
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Old 22-03-2014, 09:17
Blondie X
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Making out it is isolating is what is making it isolating for them. Why should it be such a big thing? The chocolate biscuit thing was to illustrate how ridiculous making coming out of the closet a big thing is. People should be happy with who they are, why should anyone need to make out it's such a big thing, it just makes it harder for them to come out.
Yes, people should be happy with who they are but that's part of maturing and takes time to happen. It takes until well into adulthood for most people to feel completely comfortable in their own skin imo.

It's fine for older people to say they are happy and comfortable being gay but it must be a nightmare to go through the difficult teenage years knowing you are different to the majority and feeling scared to tell people that. I know almost all of the gay people I know say that during their teenage years, if someone could have waved a magic wand and made them straight, they'd have bitten their hand off. Not know because as mature adults they like who they are but being young is tough enough, without having to make that choice of whether to come out and possibly get a negative response or to live a lie until you are in an older, wiser headspace
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Old 22-03-2014, 15:49
ChristmasCake
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My point was that evangelical Christianity believes in demons and that is why they do exorcisms in general not as a sexual thing. I mentioned before that they do not need to feel bad about their sexuality if it's a sociably acceptable so they shouldn't worry but pressuring them that they need to come out and that they are different rather than saying everyone is human but sexuality varies.
You seem to be under the erroneous assumption that I need educating in regards to this.

I don't.



76.3% of Jamaicans are of African descent and so that would qualify as being of African heritage.
What does any of that have to do with culture?



Like I said with interracial relationship acceptance they didn't make out they were different, they were saying that we are all the same, it's just that they prefer people of a different race.
The difference here being it's still seen as 'normal' compared to minority sexuality types, and you only have to look at attitudes at the time to realise this.

Tom Daley is known world wide, is worth millions of pounds and is a diver that has represented his country in many diving events. The majority of people aren't any of these so they can't empathise with him because their experience would be different.
Anyone can empathise with what it's like to struggle with your sexuality.

But you are criticising them for being homophobic when the bible condemns heterosexuality 175 times for every one time homosexuality is condemned. You could say most sex books involving heterosexuality condemns homosexuality.
It's irrelevant how often it's condemned in the book, when the Archbishop of Canterbury for example, comes out with the sort of nonsense he did during the equal marriage debate...

He married a woman he wasn't sexually attracted to and later went in to a relationship with someone he was attracted to. How is it not similar? It is claims like that which creates a bigger acceptance gap.
He still married someone of the opposite sex which is still viewed by many as culturally normal, it's nothing like being transgendered for example...
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Old 23-03-2014, 10:48
Blockz99
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Given that one of my aunts and her family are Muslim, I think I am more than aware, I've also been contacted by people in these communities who seek help and reassurance.

I'm also partly Jamaican, so have an understanding of it from that perspective too.

I deal with this day in day out as a volunteer, so I'm unsure why you're questioning me in this way..
I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the Christian world...read my post . I'm saying homophobia is far more widespread in the Muslim and African worlds which I'm sure as you will agree with as members of your family have Muslim and African are from these worlds. I just though that by bringing in "the Christian do it too " you were trying to imply that homophobia is as widespread in the Christian world which is just not true.
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Old 23-03-2014, 11:03
ChristmasCake
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I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the Christian world...read my post . I'm saying homophobia is far more widespread in the Muslim and African worlds which I'm sure as you will agree with as members of your family have Muslim and African are from these worlds. I just though that by bringing in "the Christian do it too " you were trying to imply that homophobia is as widespread in the Christian world which is just not true.
The Christian world includes many African States, Latin America, Russia, and the U.S, where homphobia is rife, so I'm not sure where you get that idea from..
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Old 23-03-2014, 11:27
Blockz99
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The Christian world includes many African States, Latin America, Russia, and the U.S, where homphobia is rife, so I'm not sure where you get that idea from..
Yes that is true. The original post lumped Islam and Africa together and I was trying to cover two completely different areas of Homophobia in response . Let me be clear.
It really depends on what % of a Christian country is actually Christian . In the US there is a swath of the country that is conservative Christian about 60-80 million and yes they are by and large very homophobic . But the rest of the county some 280 million are not or at least not as homophobic. A dozen states in the US have gay marriage and the tide is in favour of equal gay rights . It is expected that gay marriage will be universally enshrined in laws over the next few years . Russia that other big Chrisitan state is very homophobic and its human rights appear to be going backwards in general .South America - appear to be somewhere in between the extreme homophobia of Russia and the liberalism of the US (excluding the conservatives). Europe - basically Christian in name only is the most Liberal place to be gay in the world , though obviously there are some areas that are not that safe but by and large its the most progressive continent of all.
Islam - no country recognises gay marriage , overwhelming majority have laws against it and culturally its a no no. African is overwhelming homophobic and yes most of these countries are Christian . Even in SA where gay marriage is legal homophobia is rife . Corrective rape for Lesbians is common .

It is a very complex issue as there are many permutations . But it seems the least homophobic places appear to be Secular Europe , US the worst appear to be Africa and Islamic countries. I can't comment on China, India (Hindu) Japan or the far east as I don't have much data regarding their laws or cultural attitudes to Homosexuality so I'm not just going to make things up.

I was not trying to say Christians are less homophobic than Muslims . Both religions use bigotry to control the poor and uneducated .
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Old 23-03-2014, 20:26
Airborae
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So, Fernando Torres still hasn't come out yet!
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Old 23-03-2014, 20:33
mseven1
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Yes, people should be happy with who they are but that's part of maturing and takes time to happen. It takes until well into adulthood for most people to feel completely comfortable in their own skin imo.

It's fine for older people to say they are happy and comfortable being gay but it must be a nightmare to go through the difficult teenage years knowing you are different to the majority and feeling scared to tell people that. I know almost all of the gay people I know say that during their teenage years, if someone could have waved a magic wand and made them straight, they'd have bitten their hand off. Not know because as mature adults they like who they are but being young is tough enough, without having to make that choice of whether to come out and possibly get a negative response or to live a lie until you are in an older, wiser headspace
But having famous people coming out and making out it is a big thing and all gay people need to come out is what is causing the problems. Gay rights groups only want people to come out and for it to be controversial as it gives their organisations publicity. People should be their self and they shouldn't be causing bigger gaps of acceptance just for a gay rights group to get publicity. Making out gay people are different creates a bigger gap than promoting the similarities.

The difference here being it's still seen as 'normal' compared to minority sexuality types, and you only have to look at attitudes at the time to realise this.
It is attitudes like that why some people don't accept homosexuality. Interracial relationships were seen they way homosexuality was and still sometimes is. Claiming someone is different creates a gap. It's not only in sexuality, it can be the same with sports teams, your home country and favourite TV programmes to name a few. If those are seen as the similarities it creates less of a gap if it was to say you all like sports, you all come from the same planet and you all like TV.

Anyone can empathise with what it's like to struggle with your sexuality.
No, famous people like Tom Daley would have talked to a publicist and they would have discussed the best way to announce it, when to announce it and arrange the announcement. People in the general public don't have this.

It's irrelevant how often it's condemned in the book, when the Archbishop of Canterbury for example, comes out with the sort of nonsense he did during the equal marriage debate...
If you weren't Church of England Christian why would you care what the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks? Sexuality and marriage aren't the same thing, in a religious sense the bible it says marriage is between a woman and a man and so the Archbishop of Canterbury would understandably be against it. Not everyone against homosexual marriage is against homosexuality, there are people who are against homosexual marriage because they believe it will lead to other sexualities being able to get married and there are people who are against marriage in general and so would also be against homosexual marriage.

The Christian world includes many African States, Latin America, Russia, and the U.S, where homphobia is rife, so I'm not sure where you get that idea from..
Some of them are Evangelical or Methodist who are more against homosexuality than some other Christians
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Old 23-03-2014, 20:59
ChristmasCake
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I'm getting tired of the circular logic you keep applying, but LGBT people hiding who they are will only set things backwards, and ignoring the impact that socio-cultural homphobia has on people is confusing at best..
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Old 24-03-2014, 01:07
mseven1
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I'm getting tired of the circular logic you keep applying, but LGBT people hiding who they are will only set things backwards, and ignoring the impact that socio-cultural homphobia has on people is confusing at best..
How is making out that homosexuality is different and a big thing going to make people accept homosexuality more? Like I keep saying homosexuals and heterosexuals are both human and all that's different is sexual attraction. If there is more focus on the similarities than the differences it would be more accepted.
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Old 24-03-2014, 02:35
ChristmasCake
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How is making out that homosexuality is different and a big thing going to make people accept homosexuality more? Like I keep saying homosexuals and heterosexuals are both human and all that's different is sexual attraction. If there is more focus on the similarities than the differences it would be more accepted.
Unfortunately, the reality is that most people don't and won't change their mind on accepting minority sexuality types until it involves someone they know.

I don't know why you keep focusing so much on homosexuality here, this applies across the LGBT spectrum...

In an ideal world, people would accept the BIB, but they don't, and it's not LGBT people creating the difference...
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Old 25-03-2014, 22:07
mseven1
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Unfortunately, the reality is that most people don't and won't change their mind on accepting minority sexuality types until it involves someone they know.

I don't know why you keep focusing so much on homosexuality here, this applies across the LGBT spectrum...

In an ideal world, people would accept the BIB, but they don't, and it's not LGBT people creating the difference...
But making out LGBT people are different is what creates a larger gap and that is partly why people don't accept it
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Old 25-03-2014, 22:09
The Cricketer
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So who was the journalist that made this claim? Is he still working?
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Old 25-03-2014, 23:22
DLcastoff
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Christmas cake, hoping this will give you a little more hope. I am an Anglican in the most conservative - homophobic part of the UK. In the church I attend no one under about fifty and many older members support equal marriage and have no difficulty with people being gay, gay clergy etc. It seems a long way off but in Britain at least homophobia is literally dying out. I know many other nations have a long way to go and I support various advocacy groups but let us be happy for our small victories and pick our battles. For example, I can't be bothered to argue with an eighty year old man. He is too set in his ways and I will never change his mind. Other people I might be able to.
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Old 25-03-2014, 23:35
ChristmasCake
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But making out LGBT people are different is what creates a larger gap and that is partly why people don't accept it
You keep saying that, like it's LGBT people creating that difference, it's not.
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Old 25-03-2014, 23:45
ChristmasCake
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Christmas cake, hoping this will give you a little more hope. I am an Anglican in the most conservative - homophobic part of the UK. In the church I attend no one under about fifty and many older members support equal marriage and have no difficulty with people being gay, gay clergy etc. It seems a long way off but in Britain at least homophobia is literally dying out. I know many other nations have a long way to go and I support various advocacy groups but let us be happy for our small victories and pick our battles. For example, I can't be bothered to argue with an eighty year old man. He is too set in his ways and I will never change his mind. Other people I might be able to.

Thanks for the message. I'm always full of hope, but casual homophobia remains a problem.
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Old 26-03-2014, 00:00
DLcastoff
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Thanks for the message. I'm always full of hope, but casual homophobia remains a problem.
It does. I don't let comments pass in young people who are the ones who make unthinking comments.
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Old 26-03-2014, 00:24
mseven1
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You keep saying that, like it's LGBT people creating that difference, it's not.
When someone says they are different it does create a difference because they are the ones saying they are different. It's not just with homosexuality like I said before. If someone supports a specific football team it also creates a gap and you would probably find some people who dislike some football teams as much as some people dislike homosexuals
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Old 26-03-2014, 00:26
ChristmasCake
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When someone says they are different it does create a difference because they are the ones saying they are different. It's not just with homosexuality like I said before. If someone supports a specific football team it also creates a gap and you would probably find some people who dislike some football teams as much as some people dislike homosexuals
Who is saying they are different?
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Old 26-03-2014, 05:08
dd68
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Why is this thread still running?
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Old 27-03-2014, 13:06
ChristmasCake
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mseven1 seeing as you haven't answered my question, I thought I'd leave a quote here from Tyler Glenn, a vocalist from Neon Trees who just came out:

I donít think Iím special for being a gay man. Thatís not why I came out. I didn't come out so all of you could say ďi knew itĒ based on the clothes I wear or the way I dance. I never even thought Iíd have to come out.

Iíd be the 50 yr old living with dogs hiding my relationships living on a beach somewhere. Maybe then iíd be comfortable with it. But it was last summer, writing songs for the new album, being so fed up with ďhidingĒ and being so ready to be ďfreeĒ that I poured my heart out into music more than Iíd ever had before. Music indeed was my first love. Not a boy. It was music that I had always had a torrid love affair with. I felt I owed him, the music, or her, the song. I had to be honest with that relationship.

It was the moment I let myself write about the years spent in falling for my straight friend or the song I let myself write about thinking it was ok to be alone forever because it was better than explaining myself. It was those truths that came out before I decided to. You canít hide away forever. I don't think i was even trying. But music never let me lie. Something always would come out in the songs.

So now you know what you may have always assumed. Good for you. How does it feel? Do you want a ďgaydarĒ award? Do you want to be pat on the back because you can ďspot themĒ?

It is not news. It is not meant to be salacious. Until you know what itís like to hide, to keep away true happiness out of fear. Thatís when you truly understand what itís like. Itís not about coming out to wave a flag in anotherís face. At least itís not for me. For me its about finding the purist of peace. The absolute settling of my soul. The clearest vision of the road I want to take.

Iím 30. I donít want to die anymore. I want to really live. Honestly, and fully. What an amazing place to be. For me it was a place I never cared about. Now all I want is to be honest.

Thatís what this whole ďcoming outĒ thing is for me. Itís been quite a real and beautiful day to have so much compassion and love coming from strangers, fans that have been there since the beginning, new fans, family, friends. For someone like me, the eternal self deprecator, i just want to say thank you.
I guess the last thing I want to say tonight and for now is if you're like me, a wanderer, a questioner, a soul searcher, a dreamer, or misunderstood for any reason at all: Come out.

Come out as a wanderer. Come out as a questioner. One day it wont matter. But it still does. Come out as YOU. Thatís all I really can say. Thatís what iíd say to me at 21, the scared return mormon missionary who knew this part of himself but loved God too. You can do both. Donít let anyone tell you you canít.

All my love and hope, and for now, back to the music.
Link here.
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Old 28-03-2014, 01:48
mseven1
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Who is saying they are different?
Coming out is making a distinction that they are different. Why does a big thing need to be made of it? People should be happy who they are without having to come out, they should always have been out. It is like the Nazis who put homosexuals in to concentration camps and made them wear pink triangle badges so people would know they are homosexuals. In reality no one should care if some one is gay or not but putting labels on people cause bigger acceptance gaps than saying we're all the same.

mseven1 seeing as you haven't answered my question
Which question?
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