I fullly agree that you should be allowed to post your opinions and have every right to disagree with me, as others have done also, as you say its often part of the fun. I'm also aware that my last post was maybe a little personal, and for that I apologise. I just feel that their have been a lot of posters who have come on here who have said that they acknowledge RTD could have made that choice, and their are others who have said things in the way of 'i disagree because....' which are examples of both agreeing and disagreeing whilst still keeping in the spirit of things, whereas it's felt that since you came onto this thread it's been your mission to make me feel that I should be ashamed for daring to even have the opinions that I do at all, which has affectively ruined the thread for me because I now feel I'm practically 'not allowed' to post my opinions on the topic without you launching another rant about how terrible I am.
There's disagreeing and even strongly disagreeing but the way you've been replying consistently feels like your trying to 'tell me off' for having an opinion.

The problem is that you state as absolute fact that RTD had the option to erase the TV Movie (including McGann's Doctor) from history. This is a bit more than "having an opinion".

Bear in mind there had been years of merchandise featuring the Eighth Doctor since 1996 and Big Finish continued to produce Eighth Doctor audio plays after the launch of the 2005 series. Overwriting McGann would have alienated a lot of loyal fans.

Maybe that reflects the the consistently weak nature of your argument and the fact that you don't seem prepared to consider that the opinions of others who disagree with you are backed by evidence.

If no-one disagrees with you, this thread is just going to end with your last post repeating what you said at the start and you telling yourself you're right.

This is like playing chess with a Pigeon




Also .... I would like to directly ask you for a response to this, as you seem to have overlooked it ...



???

i would love to see 7s stint completely retconned but it is what it is regardless of my feeling about McCoy's era.

Well in response to that I would say that as far as I've been aware of who it's always been the tv movie, I've never seen it referred to as anything else. Just because a series was intended to follow dosen't neccesarily mean it wasn't still a movie. There have been many movies that later became tv shows. If someone did indeed class it as a 'pilot' at the time and there is evidence of this then fair enough, I've just personally never seen it described as such.

It was only a "movie" in the sense that it was a one-off feature-length episode. Segal had always intended to launch a full series and a TV Movie was the only deal on offer from Fox, on the understanding that it could potentially act as a backdoor pilot.

The title "The Movie" wasn't used officially until the DVD was released, several years later. The official title was always just "Doctor Who".

The BBC fully embraced Paul McGann as the current Doctor and the logo was used across all branding. Indeed, the TV Movie logo/branding is still used for classic series DVDs and Big Finish productions.

I'm pretty sure that it was only referred to as a movie on its video release. When it was shown in 1996, i think it was called, simply, Doctor Who.

This thread is almost making me think all of New Who is non-canon, since it didn't strictly follow on from McGanns time


No wait, I've just had a cup of tea, all is well, its all canon

Evidence? Philip Segal's quest to relaunch Doctor Who as a TV series is so well-documented that I'm amazed any long-term fan could possibly be unaware of it. In addition to all the interviews and documentaries clearly stating his intention to make a full series, the guy even wrote a book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-R...l+regeneration

Further reading:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Nth-Doct...rds=nth+doctor

I find it bizarre that you're somehow unaware of the wealth of evidence that the TV Movie was intended as a "backdoor pilot" for a TV series.

I was only 8 when the tv movie was released so I wasn't exactly 'around' at that time, and while I have now been aware for a while that the plan was to make a tv series from it if popular, it still seems this particular production intended to launch that series was made in a movie format. If it were a 'pilot' then i would have thought it would have been no more than an hour, or the whole thing would have been split across two episodes. I can't actually recall ever seeing a 'pilot' that was an hour and a half in length, unless all the episodes were intended to be that long, such as in the case of sherlock, which presumably wouldn't have been the case for doctor who. Most american tv episodes are about 45-50 mins long and shown in an hour slot to accommodate adverts. Not disagreeing that a series was intended from it at all, as I said It just seem's like a movie intended to launch the series than an episode.

Anyway whether or not anyone believes it was indeed a tv movie or episode pilot, the fact is nothing else came of it. It was neither produced as a part of classic who or new who so it stands alone on a production level and even though it is now acknowledged as a part of the history of the series, and makes sense to do that given the Mccoy regeneration is in there as it now stands (as could have been re done alternately), I feel that since the ongoing series of classic who finished at survival, there could have been a choice for RTD to feel that he didn't need to acknowledge it. Yes, Im sure it would have angered many fans who had believed it was 'cannon' but that dosen't change the fact that he could have done it if he'd wanted.

The closest thing I can compare it to is star wars. their have been many books written about event's after return of the jedi, and george lucas insisted that no star wars movies were going to be made after that point so the books were cannon as much if they'd been on screen. Yet now star wars 7 is going to be made and all the people who have believed those books for all those years are now up in arms that the movie will 'change' what they see as canonical events, but the fans anger dosen't change the fact that they will write whatever story they feel like and I fully feel RTD could have done the same in reagrds to the tv movie. controversial? of course. Fully within his power as showrunner? yes also.

All of the Star Trek shows, with the exception of the original series, had 90 minute pilots and 45 minute regular episodes. Heck, even the original series originally had a 90 minute pilot, but it wasn't accepted and a second 45 minute pilot actually kicked off the show.

I'm positive there are other shows that got movie-length pilot episodes, but its definitely not a unique occurrence for Doctor Who.

Actually that might not be the case. The BBC could easily reject such a pitch.

Maybe, had it been an issue at the start, but the line up of past doctors was not shown at all until the next doctor, at which point it was already such a success I doubt they would have cared what he did.

Have not watched star trek so if that's the case then fair enough on that point. if people want to call it a pilot then fair enough, I personally don't feel it seems that way and also feel that I am allowed to have my opinion. The whole pilot/movie issue is irrelevant to whether it was actually possible for it to be ignored, which of course it was, as anything was possible really.

I just thought a fun little 'what if' thread on if it were to be ignored would be interesting, but obviously I have touched a nerve among some who seem to hold its inclusion as vitally important, which was never my intention, and I feel that at this point further discussion of the subject is, for me, pointless as I'm just repeating my believes over and over whilst those who feel differently are doing the same. I hold no bad feeling and respect that everyone has a different opinion,

Thanks for engaging folks. see you on the next thread

Also, Starsky and Hutch, Streets of San Francisco, Kojak, Cagney and Lacey all started with feature length pilot episodes. Its a well known and well used formula and has been used by American television since at least the 60s.

I'm not 'telling you off'. Why would I? You can say what you want. And others can challenge it. Ill say it one more time. This is nothing to do with your 'what if' scenario. Its to do with various comments you've made about the TV pilot and its place in canon prior to New Who which I disagree with. Instead of explaining or countering my points you ignored them and others and then decided to start commenting on me instead. Which I felt was a bit scurrilous. I apologise if I came across as confrontational. Not my intention. This is all good fun of the forum. However, and its not just you, but I get depressed when I see people including me being accused of 'attacking' other forum members just because we disagree or point out a possible inaccuracie in what they say. That's not attacking or being rude or bullying. Its debating. After all. I agree with you that RTD couldve ignored Eight. I disagree with your view that he should. I also disagree with the original assertion around which your entire first post revolved namely that the TV pilot was disconnected from Classic Who back when it was made. It wasn't. It was and is a direct continuation and was always intended as such.

"If we fight like animals, we'll DIE like animals!"

Debate is cool. Bullying is despicable. We're all fans and have our opinions. Respect is paramount. You all have good taste in genre TV and all is good here I think. I like this forum. Long live Doctor Who! Opinions are like buses, three turn up at a...no, hang on, that's not right.

Not being serious. Just vainly trying to come up with something vaguely interesting for me 1000th post. Peace.

https://twitter.com/pauljmcgann/stat...16279969644544