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The Only Real Competition for Ray


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Old 10-03-2014, 12:56
Dilly Daydream
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I really believe that the only real competition for Ray might have been Matthew Wolfenden or Chris Fountain.

Now that would have made it an exciting competition.

Still think Ray would have won though
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Old 10-03-2014, 13:21
WhyHelloWorld
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Why do people keep saying this?

Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition.
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Old 10-03-2014, 13:56
natalian
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I really believe that the only real competition for Ray might have been Matthew Wolfenden or Chris Fountain.

Now that would have made it an exciting competition.

Still think Ray would have won though
The only time Ray was top of the public vote the whole series was in the final. On skating ability, the result should never have been in doubt but the public's ability to vote according to ability is substantially impaired.
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Old 10-03-2014, 14:05
Patti-Ann
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If the public voted for ability the final three would have been Ray, Sam and Kyran/Suzanne.

But it's also down to popularity - look how long Coleen lasted
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Old 10-03-2014, 14:14
foxy23
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REALLY glad Ray won! He was always head and shoulders above the others. Although I did like Suzanne and Sam!
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Old 10-03-2014, 16:30
_NiallDEE_
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Why do people keep saying this?

Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition.
This. The voting statistics reveal that Ray never actually topped the voting until the final which shows that he was actually quite lucky to win, and it wasn't a case of him having 'no competition' whatsoever.
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Old 10-03-2014, 16:44
LazySusan
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Why do people keep saying this?

Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition.
As I said in another thread I'm sure Ray never got as many votes in all the other weeks because everyone assumed he was safe. I wanted Ray to win but never voted for him until the final. I did however vote for Beth a few times to help get her through to the final,
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Old 10-03-2014, 16:52
danyell
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I really wish Chris Fountain was in this final series. I thought he was brilliant. I liked matthew too but he wasnt as rememberable as Chris.
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Old 10-03-2014, 16:53
The Swampster
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As I said in another thread I'm sure Ray never got as many votes in all the other weeks because everyone assumed he was safe. I wanted Ray to win but never voted for him until the final. I did however vote for Beth a few times to help get her through to the final,
I agree with this. Voting on Dancing on Ice costs money (unlike on Strictly, with its new, free online votes). I think if you wanted to see Ray win the series , there was absolutely NO incentive to vote for him any week before the final because it was pretty much guaranteed that whoever he was up against in the skate off, he could beat. Hayley fans, on the other hand, knew that their favourite's skating might not stand up so well in a skate off, so were much more motivated to vote (IMO).
Had the voting been free - as for Strictly - I suspect Ray would have polled a bit better in the early weeks, but not necessarily much better. His vote suffered because, in terms of quality (and therefore judging panel skate-off appeal) it was a one-horse race until the very end.
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Old 10-03-2014, 16:54
Dilly Daydream
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Why do people keep saying this?

Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition.
I'm not talking about voting statistics, I'm talking about actual ability. It's got nothing to do with popularity (which is what the voting is mainly for).

No-one can deny that Ray is the best skater and the only real competition for him would be from another man., doing the same kind of lifts etc. You cannot compare what Ray does to a female - any female - being pulled around and being lifted by a man.

There is no comparison. Therefore I stand by what I said - the only real competition for him would have been from Matthew or Chris.
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Old 10-03-2014, 17:21
yellowlabbie
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REALLY glad Ray won! He was always head and shoulders above the others. Although I did like Suzanne and Sam!
These 3 were certainly the best 3 ice-skaters in the competition without a doubt.
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Old 10-03-2014, 17:26
WhyHelloWorld
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I'm not talking about voting statistics, I'm talking about actual ability. It's got nothing to do with popularity (which is what the voting is mainly for).

No-one can deny that Ray is the best skater and the only real competition for him would be from another man., doing the same kind of lifts etc. You cannot compare what Ray does to a female - any female - being pulled around and being lifted by a man.

There is no comparison. Therefore I stand by what I said - the only real competition for him would have been from Matthew or Chris.
You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.

No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts.
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Old 10-03-2014, 17:30
yellowlabbie
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You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.

No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts.
I disagree, I am another voter who only voted on finals night. I believe Beth and Hayley voters were voting most weeks. Ray fans knew he would get to the final, the judges would never have voted him out.
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Old 10-03-2014, 17:42
tabithakitten
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You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.

No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts.
Matthew (possibly) and Chris (definitely imo) may well have altered the judges' placings which may well have stirred more Ray fans to vote pre-final. As others have said, barring a skate-off disaster, Ray would have been safe whatever in the series that's just taken place. However, with Matthew and/or Chris (particularly Chris) in the mix, that outcome would quite possibly have been much less certain.

It's all moot anyway. Neither were there and while we can speculate about ifs, buts, whys and wherefores, it makes no difference in the long run. I think that if Chris at least had been there, it would have shaken things up considerably so certain factors would have changed but then I also think that if my aunty had been born with different plumbing, she would have been my uncle.
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Old 10-03-2014, 18:53
the nooster
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They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.
And you know this for a fact because???
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Old 10-03-2014, 19:17
Leicester_Hunk
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You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.

No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts.
HAVE!

HAVE!

HAVE!

Not OF!

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Old 10-03-2014, 19:44
Ignazio
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If the public voted for ability the final three would have been Ray, Sam and Kyran/Suzanne.

But it's also down to popularity - look how long Coleen lasted
That is opinion and opinion is always subjective.

imo Suzanne came good as a skater after Nicky criticised the skating content in her routine - but was never as good technically as Beth. Conversely Beth could never hope to achieve parity with Suzanne's as a performer. Tricks and lifts it would be difficult to separate them. In her winning series Suzanne took the breath away - sadly she was off the boil in Champion of Champions.

Kyran can skate and has strength but no finesse.

In the absence of Matt Wolfenden Sam was the only realistic male contender for the title and was certainly more deserving of a final place than Hayley but better than Beth? It is almost impossible to make a comparison between male and female as the judges look for different skills. Could Beth skate as fast as her partner - could she lift him or grab him by the ankles and swing him around in a headbanger? Clearly not. But then could Sam find the balance to be lifted with elegance and grace. Again not at all.

To make a true comparison one must compare like with like and in the case of male v female this is not possible.

We keep hearing that the men have the most difficult task; they have to stay on the ice whilst lifting their partners; the flying favours the females etc. but no one seems to acknowledge that those females who are good technical skaters are classed as boring and those who excel at the lifts and tricks are accused of being carried around.

Maybe Sam did deserve a final place but this would have been at Hayley's expense- the expressions 'all for show' and 'fur coat and no knickers' springs to mind. On this year's showing Suzanne fell short and Kyran was nowhere near the required standard so Beth earned her place in the last three.
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Old 10-03-2014, 19:47
Ignazio
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I disagree, I am another voter who only voted on finals night. I believe Beth and Hayley voters were voting most weeks. Ray fans knew he would get to the final, the judges would never have voted him out.
What you 'believe' is nothing but conjecture; no one knows anything for sure.

Ray won and thoroughly deserved the title - why not leave it at that?
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Old 10-03-2014, 19:48
StrictlyEastend
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Simple, Chris Fountain. Ray is only 2 times better.
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Old 10-03-2014, 19:51
yellowlabbie
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What you 'believe' is nothing but conjecture; no one knows anything for sure.

Ray won and thoroughly deserved the title - why not leave it at that?
Maybe but why not say this to all the other posters who have been and still are doing the same.

I had an opinion, as did the poster I replied to.
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Old 10-03-2014, 22:22
Sarah Anne
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Why did Matthew not return?

I missed Chris fountain a lot. I'm sure he would have won.
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Old 10-03-2014, 22:54
MarellaK
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Why did Matthew not return?

I missed Chris fountain a lot. I'm sure he would have won.
He didn't even win his own series, Suzanne did and she trailed badly in this series. I was never a fan of Chris's style of skating - yes, he is a powerful and accomplished skater but he never performed or danced like Ray does and it's the dancing aspect of the ice- skating which I find so mesmerising.
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Old 11-03-2014, 00:08
thenetworkbabe
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This. The voting statistics reveal that Ray never actually topped the voting until the final which shows that he was actually quite lucky to win, and it wasn't a case of him having 'no competition' whatsoever.
There's competition in skills and ability to produce a complete top rate routine. There's also a competition in votes. The votes this series had nothing much to do with what happened on the rink, before the final. Most went to three competing fanbases. Beth may have belonged in the final under both definitions, but we never saw the competition between her and the top female competition play out. Hayley's vote just was afixed factor - there was no relationship with how poorly or well she did any week. B eth's vote may, or may not, have reflected her being the judges least favourite, but it reflected her being in most danger more than her peaksa nd troughs. Ray lost to Hayley in the vote every week - its doubtful if the people who stood the strongest hope of challenging him on ability even amde the final.

As it ended, you could have predicted the result at the start because Ray was never challenged on ability, and the runner up was always likely to get a fan vote. Indeed the bokkies odds had the result on day one - when you would never arrive at those odds by looking at past ability.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:58
The Swampster
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There's competition in skills and ability to produce a complete top rate routine. There's also a competition in votes. The votes this series had nothing much to do with what happened on the rink, before the final. Most went to three competing fanbases. Beth may have belonged in the final under both definitions, but we never saw the competition between her and the top female competition play out. Hayley's vote just was afixed factor - there was no relationship with how poorly or well she did any week. B eth's vote may, or may not, have reflected her being the judges least favourite, but it reflected her being in most danger more than her peaksa nd troughs. Ray lost to Hayley in the vote every week - its doubtful if the people who stood the strongest hope of challenging him on ability even amde the final.

As it ended, you could have predicted the result at the start because Ray was never challenged on ability, and the runner up was always likely to get a fan vote. Indeed the bokkies odds had the result on day one - when you would never arrive at those odds by looking at past ability.
I don't think the total lack of motivation for Ray's supporters to vote can be discounted here. Pretty much from the start, Ray was regarded as the one to beat, and was viewed for the majority of the contest as highly unlikely to lose a skate off. Given that Dancing On Ice votes cost money, why pay to vote when – in the seemingly unlikely event of Ray's appearing in a skate off – there's nobody else in the competition who would be likely to beat him? Hayley was clearly a very popular contestant, but not necessarily more popular than Ray was: however, her supporters knew that if she ended up in the skate-off there was a fair chance she could have lost to any of the former series winners. Same with Beth (who was even less likely to win a skate-off as she didn't seem to have the love of the judges).
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Old 11-03-2014, 09:23
Ignazio
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Maybe but why not say this to all the other posters who have been and still are doing the same.

I had an opinion, as did the poster I replied to.
You said you 'believe' that Beth's and Hayley's supporters voted every week - you have nothing on which to base this belief or opinion.

Some believe that Ray's die hard fans also voted every week but that he still trailed behind Hayley in the popular vote until Beth was eliminated and her fans switched to Ray. Again no facts to support this but given previous evidence the law of probability would support this theory.

The only thing we can be sure of is our own motives for voting and the frequency and number of votes we cast. I voted for Ray and Beth every week - because I thought they were the best.

I have no intention of offending you or anyone else but I must confess bemusement when beliefs, opinions and/or theories are arrived at without statistical evidence.
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