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The Only Real Competition for Ray |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: East of England
Posts: 2,198
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The Only Real Competition for Ray
I really believe that the only real competition for Ray might have been Matthew Wolfenden or Chris Fountain.
Now that would have made it an exciting competition. Still think Ray would have won though
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#2 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,306
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Why do people keep saying this?
Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition. |
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,589
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Quote:
I really believe that the only real competition for Ray might have been Matthew Wolfenden or Chris Fountain.
Now that would have made it an exciting competition. Still think Ray would have won though ![]() |
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,397
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If the public voted for ability the final three would have been Ray, Sam and Kyran/Suzanne.
But it's also down to popularity - look how long Coleen lasted
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,786
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REALLY glad Ray won! He was always head and shoulders above the others. Although I did like Suzanne and Sam!
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,451
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Quote:
Why do people keep saying this?
Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition. |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,058
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Quote:
Why do people keep saying this?
Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition. |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,198
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I really wish Chris Fountain was in this final series. I thought he was brilliant. I liked matthew too but he wasnt as rememberable as Chris.
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,376
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Quote:
As I said in another thread I'm sure Ray never got as many votes in all the other weeks because everyone assumed he was safe. I wanted Ray to win but never voted for him until the final. I did however vote for Beth a few times to help get her through to the final,
Had the voting been free - as for Strictly - I suspect Ray would have polled a bit better in the early weeks, but not necessarily much better. His vote suffered because, in terms of quality (and therefore judging panel skate-off appeal) it was a one-horse race until the very end. |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: East of England
Posts: 2,198
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Quote:
Why do people keep saying this?
Hayley and Beth were never bottom 2, Ray was. Clearly they were good competition. No-one can deny that Ray is the best skater and the only real competition for him would be from another man., doing the same kind of lifts etc. You cannot compare what Ray does to a female - any female - being pulled around and being lifted by a man. There is no comparison. Therefore I stand by what I said - the only real competition for him would have been from Matthew or Chris. |
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 43,100
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Quote:
REALLY glad Ray won! He was always head and shoulders above the others. Although I did like Suzanne and Sam!
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#12 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,306
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Quote:
I'm not talking about voting statistics, I'm talking about actual ability. It's got nothing to do with popularity (which is what the voting is mainly for).
No-one can deny that Ray is the best skater and the only real competition for him would be from another man., doing the same kind of lifts etc. You cannot compare what Ray does to a female - any female - being pulled around and being lifted by a man. There is no comparison. Therefore I stand by what I said - the only real competition for him would have been from Matthew or Chris. No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts. |
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#13 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 43,100
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Quote:
You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.
No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts. |
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,239
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Quote:
You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.
No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts. It's all moot anyway. Neither were there and while we can speculate about ifs, buts, whys and wherefores, it makes no difference in the long run. I think that if Chris at least had been there, it would have shaken things up considerably so certain factors would have changed but then I also think that if my aunty had been born with different plumbing, she would have been my uncle. |
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 57
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Quote:
They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Leicester!!!
Posts: 13,021
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Quote:
You spoke about it being a good competition. Would it of made much difference? Hayley and Beth were sweeping the votes each week? With Ray third. Would Matthew or Chris of threatened that!? Absolutely not. They would of gone before the final 3 anyway so ultimately were left with the same outcome and no changes.
No-one can deny it, no. But nobody can deny that he faced very hard competition from Hayley and Beth which is backed up with facts. HAVE! HAVE! Not OF! ![]()
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,110
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Quote:
If the public voted for ability the final three would have been Ray, Sam and Kyran/Suzanne.
But it's also down to popularity - look how long Coleen lasted ![]() imo Suzanne came good as a skater after Nicky criticised the skating content in her routine - but was never as good technically as Beth. Conversely Beth could never hope to achieve parity with Suzanne's as a performer. Tricks and lifts it would be difficult to separate them. In her winning series Suzanne took the breath away - sadly she was off the boil in Champion of Champions. Kyran can skate and has strength but no finesse. In the absence of Matt Wolfenden Sam was the only realistic male contender for the title and was certainly more deserving of a final place than Hayley but better than Beth? It is almost impossible to make a comparison between male and female as the judges look for different skills. Could Beth skate as fast as her partner - could she lift him or grab him by the ankles and swing him around in a headbanger? Clearly not. But then could Sam find the balance to be lifted with elegance and grace. Again not at all. To make a true comparison one must compare like with like and in the case of male v female this is not possible. We keep hearing that the men have the most difficult task; they have to stay on the ice whilst lifting their partners; the flying favours the females etc. but no one seems to acknowledge that those females who are good technical skaters are classed as boring and those who excel at the lifts and tricks are accused of being carried around. Maybe Sam did deserve a final place but this would have been at Hayley's expense- the expressions 'all for show' and 'fur coat and no knickers' springs to mind. On this year's showing Suzanne fell short and Kyran was nowhere near the required standard so Beth earned her place in the last three. |
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,110
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Quote:
I disagree, I am another voter who only voted on finals night. I believe Beth and Hayley voters were voting most weeks. Ray fans knew he would get to the final, the judges would never have voted him out.
Ray won and thoroughly deserved the title - why not leave it at that? |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 19,233
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Simple, Chris Fountain. Ray is only 2 times better.
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 43,100
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Quote:
What you 'believe' is nothing but conjecture; no one knows anything for sure.
Ray won and thoroughly deserved the title - why not leave it at that? ![]() I had an opinion, as did the poster I replied to. |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 683
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Why did Matthew not return?
I missed Chris fountain a lot. I'm sure he would have won. |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 3,040
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Quote:
Why did Matthew not return?
I missed Chris fountain a lot. I'm sure he would have won. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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Quote:
This. The voting statistics reveal that Ray never actually topped the voting until the final which shows that he was actually quite lucky to win, and it wasn't a case of him having 'no competition' whatsoever.
As it ended, you could have predicted the result at the start because Ray was never challenged on ability, and the runner up was always likely to get a fan vote. Indeed the bokkies odds had the result on day one - when you would never arrive at those odds by looking at past ability. |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,376
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Quote:
There's competition in skills and ability to produce a complete top rate routine. There's also a competition in votes. The votes this series had nothing much to do with what happened on the rink, before the final. Most went to three competing fanbases. Beth may have belonged in the final under both definitions, but we never saw the competition between her and the top female competition play out. Hayley's vote just was afixed factor - there was no relationship with how poorly or well she did any week. B eth's vote may, or may not, have reflected her being the judges least favourite, but it reflected her being in most danger more than her peaksa nd troughs. Ray lost to Hayley in the vote every week - its doubtful if the people who stood the strongest hope of challenging him on ability even amde the final.
As it ended, you could have predicted the result at the start because Ray was never challenged on ability, and the runner up was always likely to get a fan vote. Indeed the bokkies odds had the result on day one - when you would never arrive at those odds by looking at past ability. |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,110
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Quote:
Maybe but why not say this to all the other posters who have been and still are doing the same.
![]() I had an opinion, as did the poster I replied to. Some believe that Ray's die hard fans also voted every week but that he still trailed behind Hayley in the popular vote until Beth was eliminated and her fans switched to Ray. Again no facts to support this but given previous evidence the law of probability would support this theory. The only thing we can be sure of is our own motives for voting and the frequency and number of votes we cast. I voted for Ray and Beth every week - because I thought they were the best. I have no intention of offending you or anyone else but I must confess bemusement when beliefs, opinions and/or theories are arrived at without statistical evidence. |
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