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Is it odd we didn't see the moment of change to 12?


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Old 18-03-2014, 21:21
jerseyporter
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I doubt Moffat has got anything against it, the Directors on the other hand might
BIB - This, in essence. Anyone who's heard any of the commentaries (especially on the early series) will have heard various people lamenting the limited special effects budget they have to play with per episode. The reason for the 'quick change' is probably no more mysterious than the fact they chose to spend the bulk of the special effects budget elsewhere in the episode, and figured the audience at home would just sort of 'get it' that Smith had regenerated into Capaldi without all the 'bells and whistles' we've seen in the last two or three.

Sorry to be a boring, common sense voice on the board - I know that's not just done on DS!
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Old 18-03-2014, 21:29
Shrimps
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...There's no way the BBC could justify the hoo-ha over Capaldi's appointment and then write it off as a trick. And there's no way Moffat would betray the kiddies by giving them a new Doctor and taking him away again.
I think that if Moffat was going to try something, this could have been the time to do it. Twelve hasn't been seen on screen yet, so while the kiddies haven't risen up against him as some anti older-Doctor commentators predicted, they haven't had a chance to get attached either. It's the people on forums like this who'd be the most fed up, because they've got Capaldi's Doctor/character as well as the Series 8 story arc all planned!

With the Doctor regenerating within easy reach of a crack behind which the Master (and every other Time Lord) was located, it would be effortless to weave a story where one of them had snuck through and onto the TARDIS. A return of the Master is practically confirmed (according to the fans) and Capaldi would be a brilliant one. If Clara was unwittingly putting her trust in that nutter, it could be quite cool if done well. Will Danny Pink save her, or is he part of the plot?!

Before Christmas, some forums were full of rumours that we wouldn't see the actual morph from Eleven to Twelve and that Capaldi's first appearance was naked. If Clara had walked onto the TARDIS and seen a naked Capaldi, it would have been easy to then go back and say that it was in fact the Master or a.n.o. If Capaldi can only do one series (again, just a baseless rumour) then the Master posing as the Doctor and destroying his legacy more effectively then the GI managed in 'Name' could be fascinating.

However that's not what we saw. We saw Eleven (who some people thought was a hologram at first) have an hallucination about Amy (shame it couldn't be little Amelia, but apparently she's about 30 now.) Why would anyone but the real Eleven do that? Clara didn't see her, so it wasn't some fancy trick. That wouldn't be misdirection, more like fibbing! Then we saw him change into Twelve. Yes it was very quick, but it still happened. Unless the twist is that Capaldi is the Valeyard, which is different. However that's a character I have no desire to see...

If Moffat wanted to pull an actual switch, he rather missed a trick, whereas it could have been done really well. If Episode One ends with a mysterious figure dressed in Eleven's clothes being pulled out from under the rubble of the Clock Tower, it'll just be silly.
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Old 18-03-2014, 21:49
JackMShep
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I think that if Moffat was going to try something, this could have been the time to do it. Twelve hasn't been seen on screen yet, so while the kiddies haven't risen up against him as some anti older-Doctor commentators predicted, they haven't had a chance to get attached either. It's the people on forums like this who'd be the most fed up, because they've got Capaldi's Doctor/character as well as the Series 8 story arc all planned!
Are you forgetting "No sir, all thirteen."?
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Old 18-03-2014, 22:56
The_Judge_
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Are you forgetting "No sir, all thirteen."?
Looks like this thread can be closed
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Old 19-03-2014, 12:21
doctor blue box
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I think that if Moffat was going to try something, this could have been the time to do it. Twelve hasn't been seen on screen yet, so while the kiddies haven't risen up against him as some anti older-Doctor commentators predicted, they haven't had a chance to get attached either. It's the people on forums like this who'd be the most fed up, because they've got Capaldi's Doctor/character as well as the Series 8 story arc all planned!

With the Doctor regenerating within easy reach of a crack behind which the Master (and every other Time Lord) was located, it would be effortless to weave a story where one of them had snuck through and onto the TARDIS. A return of the Master is practically confirmed (according to the fans) and Capaldi would be a brilliant one. If Clara was unwittingly putting her trust in that nutter, it could be quite cool if done well. Will Danny Pink save her, or is he part of the plot?!

Before Christmas, some forums were full of rumours that we wouldn't see the actual morph from Eleven to Twelve and that Capaldi's first appearance was naked. If Clara had walked onto the TARDIS and seen a naked Capaldi, it would have been easy to then go back and say that it was in fact the Master or a.n.o. If Capaldi can only do one series (again, just a baseless rumour) then the Master posing as the Doctor and destroying his legacy more effectively then the GI managed in 'Name' could be fascinating.

However that's not what we saw. We saw Eleven (who some people thought was a hologram at first) have an hallucination about Amy (shame it couldn't be little Amelia, but apparently she's about 30 now.) Why would anyone but the real Eleven do that? Clara didn't see her, so it wasn't some fancy trick. That wouldn't be misdirection, more like fibbing! Then we saw him change into Twelve. Yes it was very quick, but it still happened. Unless the twist is that Capaldi is the Valeyard, which is different. However that's a character I have no desire to see...

If Moffat wanted to pull an actual switch, he rather missed a trick, whereas it could have been done really well. If Episode One ends with a mysterious figure dressed in Eleven's clothes being pulled out from under the rubble of the Clock Tower, it'll just be silly.
Thanks for this reply, it's a fair well rounded analysis of the fact's and your opinions, and much better than those who just say 'the idea is terrible' with nothing to back it up.
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Old 19-03-2014, 12:23
doctor blue box
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Are you forgetting "No sir, all thirteen."?
Looks like this thread can be closed

The 'all thirteen' line isn't exactly conclusive as the doctor is the only time lord in the universe who has a TARDIS stuck like a police box from the 1960's so it could just as easily be said that they saw Capaldi flying the doctors TARDIS amognst all the other doctor's and just assumed he was one.

That being said though I do think the thread has reached it's natural conclusion as emotions over Capaldi rather seem to have mostly gotten in the way of discussion.
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Old 19-03-2014, 12:43
JackMShep
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The 'all thirteen' line isn't exactly conclusive as the doctor is the only time lord in the universe who has a TARDIS stuck like a police box from the 1960's so it could just as easily be said that they saw Capaldi flying the doctors TARDIS amognst all the other doctor's and just assumed he was one.

That being said though I do think the thread has reached it's natural conclusion as emotions over Capaldi rather seem to have mostly gotten in the way of discussion.
Or just the fact that it couldn't work for reasons previously mentioned
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Old 19-03-2014, 13:36
Pull2Open
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In 3,4 or 5 years from now, you could repeat this thread, replace all the Smiths with Capaldi and Capaldis with whoever is going to be 13 and have the same conversation.

As speculation goes, its a theory that isn't entirely implausible, however, imo it isn't a very imaginative theory like Capaldi is the Master or the Rani or <insert Timelord name here> and had taken the real Doctor prisoner in some elaborate plot. In my view it wouldn't be genius misdirection but more lazy sloppy writing.
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Old 19-03-2014, 13:40
sebbie3000
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Thanks for this reply, it's a fair well rounded analysis of the fact's and your opinions, and much better than those who just say 'the idea is terrible' with nothing to back it up.
What about my response earlier? Mine wasn't just 'the idea is terrible'.
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Old 19-03-2014, 14:10
Corwin
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While I can't see them having Capaldi as an Imposter (or any actor who has been officially announced as the Doctor) I could see them doing an Imposter story at some point.


It has of course been done before in Mawdryn Undead where the Companions are tricked into thinking the Doctor has regenerated again.


It could be a good Doclite episode where the Doctor is captured at the start but when the companion(s) rescue him they find he has changed appearance (but is wearing the same clothes). He claims he was fatally wounded when being captured and had to regenerate.



The companions and audience spend the whole episode (or even multi episodes) thinking this is a new incarnation of the Doctor only for it to be revealed the the real Doctor is still a prisoner.
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Old 19-03-2014, 14:44
doctor blue box
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What about my response earlier? Mine wasn't just 'the idea is terrible'.
Yes fair play to you sebbie3000 you gave your opinion and reasons. Alot of people hadn't though or had replied in personal way's to the effect that they thought I was against Capaldi or didn't want him to be the doctor when nothing could be further from the truth. I just thought that the regeneration was odd and thought it could be fun to speculate that maybe the oddity of it was not entirely innocent.

The actual example I gave of the not the doctor/master/teleport was just one scenario of how it could viably be important, but there could be other's and I was just wondering if anyone else thought the same or had there own theories on how it could be relevant, yet people have just got hung up on rubbishing my one theory.
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Old 19-03-2014, 14:47
Satmanager
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In 3,4 or 5 years from now, you could repeat this thread, replace all the Smiths with Capaldi and Capaldis with whoever is going to be 13 and have the same conversation.

As speculation goes, its a theory that isn't entirely implausible, however, imo it isn't a very imaginative theory like Capaldi is the Master or the Rani or <insert Timelord name here> and had taken the real Doctor prisoner in some elaborate plot. In my view it wouldn't be genius misdirection but more lazy sloppy writing.
My take, it wasn't as much lazy or sloppy writing as much as poor directing or poor editing that gave us what we got.

Or this is just an elaborate plot to keep us talking about the show until they have the next series ready.
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:00
doctor blue box
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While I can't see them having Capaldi as an Imposter (or any actor who has been officially announced as the Doctor) I could see them doing an Imposter story at some point.


It has of course been done before in Mawdryn Undead where the Companions are tricked into thinking the Doctor has regenerated again.


It could be a good Doclite episode where the Doctor is captured at the start but when the companion(s) rescue him they find he has changed appearance (but is wearing the same clothes). He claims he was fatally wounded when being captured and had to regenerate.



The companions and audience spend the whole episode (or even multi episodes) thinking this is a new incarnation of the Doctor only for it to be revealed the the real Doctor is still a prisoner.
Hmmm this raises an interesting point. Where you said about them not having someone as an imposter when they've been officially announced does kind of make me wonder, If they actually did an imposter doctor stint, is there any way they could keep it secret without lying?. Obviously we'd all wonder if there was something fishy going on if they didn't do an official announcement show when they've done so for the last two doctors and even more so if doctor who magazine didn't do it's ....is the doctor headline, so without lying through there teeth I don't know if they could do it.

Also I agree that if perhaps too bulky for an arc it would definitely make a good one off doc-lite episode. You could imagine some tense scene's as the companion casually speaks of personal things to the villain or unwisely puts their trust in him

P.s hadn't seen mawdryn undead but your description has peaked my interest so now I want to see it
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:09
Corwin
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, If they actually did an imposter doctor stint, is there any way they could keep it secret without lying?. Obviously we'd all wonder if there was something fishy going on if they didn't do an official announcement show when they've done so for the last two doctors and even more so if doctor who magazine didn't do it's ....is the doctor headline, so without lying through there teeth I don't know if they could do it.

P.s hadn't seen mawdryn undead but your description has peaked my interest so now I want to see it
Anyone following the filming of the series and looking at spoiler photo's probably wouldn't be fooled as they would know the real Doctor was filming further episodes (if the Imposter story was in the finale they might believe it) but the general viewing public could well be fooled for a while.


Afterall there were some people who thought Tennant really was going to fully regenerate in the Stolen Earth two parter.



Not seen Mawdryn myself since it was first broadcast. I have the DVD just not got round to watching it yet.
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:21
doctor blue box
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Anyone following the filming of the series and looking at spoiler photo's probably wouldn't be fooled as they would know the real Doctor was filming further episodes (if the Imposter story was in the finale they might believe it) but the general viewing public could well be fooled for a while.


Afterall there were some people who thought Tennant really was going to fully regenerate in the Stolen Earth two parter.



Not seen Mawdryn myself since it was first broadcast. I have the DVD just not got round to watching it yet.
Yes, that was one of the times where I cursed myself for being a fan enough to know some things about how the show works. Had I been a casual fan I would have been in wonderment for a week but being a fan I just thought 'if he was regenerating it would have got out about six months ago'.
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:34
Michael_Eve
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I personally really liked the BAM...it's Capadi! Regeneration.. As others have said, the whole Head up, golden energy scene had been done on the clock tower and to repeat it in exactly the same way wouldn't have worked for me. Regenerations in the past have often been very different. Obviously we didn't even see Troughton change into Pertwee, for example. And this was a different scenario as the story makes explicit.

Think Mawdryn Undead 's a cracking story btw, Doctor Blue Box. Well worth a look.
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:45
doctor blue box
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I personally really liked the BAM...it's Capadi! Regeneration.. As others have said, the whole Head up, golden energy scene had been done on the clock tower and to repeat it in exactly the same way wouldn't have worked for me. Regenerations in the past have often been very different. Obviously we didn't even see Troughton change into Pertwee, for example. And this was a different scenario as the story makes explicit.

Think Mawdryn Undead 's a cracking story btw, Doctor Blue Box. Well worth a look.
It was certainly surprising, the way he was Matt and then suddenly, without warning he wasn't. Would have personally preferred it to have just gone all the way through on the clock tower, but I can at least appreciate what we got for it's inventiveness.
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Old 19-03-2014, 22:33
johnnysaucepn
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It was certainly surprising, the way he was Matt and then suddenly, without warning he wasn't. Would have personally preferred it to have just gone all the way through on the clock tower, but I can at least appreciate what we got for it's inventiveness.
It would have been a nice twist if the process did actually complete in the clock tower, and what we later saw as Matt was actually the holographic clothes-projector simulating his old face for Clara's benefit.
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Old 19-03-2014, 22:41
JackMShep
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It would have been a nice twist if the process did actually complete in the clock tower, and what we later saw as Matt was actually the holographic clothes-projector simulating his old face for Clara's benefit.
I actually thought it was this at first! What was the point in all the nakedness otherwise then other than for just a couple of cheap laughs?
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Old 20-03-2014, 00:41
tiggerpooh
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I'm hoping that Peter Capaldi does stay for another series after this year's has finished.

I'm concerned that he is going to say no to doing another series, as his DW contract at the moment is only for one year.

I'm a bit of a fan of Capaldi's film and TV work, especially The Thick of It . The feature length TV drama Hotel! from 2001 was good too. That, coincidently had Keeley Hawes in this, plus Paul McGann.

Hotel! is available to watch on YouTube. Someone recorded this onto a VHS back when it was originally shown, and recently uploaded it.

I reccomend you watch it. You'll have a laugh! I did!

Hotel!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6XJTFKDIaY
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Old 20-03-2014, 02:38
sebbie3000
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I'm hoping that Peter Capaldi does stay for another series after this year's has finished.

I'm concerned that he is going to say no to doing another series, as his DW contract at the moment is only for one year.

I'm a bit of a fan of Capaldi's film and TV work, especially The Thick of It . The feature length TV drama Hotel! from 2001 was good too. That, coincidently had Keeley Hawes in this, plus Paul McGann.

Hotel! is available to watch on YouTube. Someone recorded this onto a VHS back when it was originally shown, and recently uploaded it.

I reccomend you watch it. You'll have a laugh! I did!

Hotel!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6XJTFKDIaY
Is this gospel? From where did you get this information?

I was under the impression that this was mere speculation.
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Old 20-03-2014, 09:56
johnnysaucepn
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Is this gospel? From where did you get this information?

I was under the impression that this was mere speculation.
I'm pretty sure every claim we ever hear about actor's contracts is pure speculation. I don't any of that info has ever been made public.
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Old 20-03-2014, 10:25
sebbie3000
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I'm pretty sure every claim we ever hear about actor's contracts is pure speculation. I don't any of that info has ever been made public.
Yeah - that's what I was getting at! I kind of hate it a little when things that are purely speculation then turn into 'the gospel truth' down the line, despite no actual confirmation from official sources...

This is where some peoples' frustrations have come from in the past - they believed other people who claimed they knew it, but it was merely speculation. Let's keep calling it what it is, hey! Guessing...
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Old 20-03-2014, 10:38
be more pacific
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Yeah - that's what I was getting at! I kind of hate it a little when things that are purely speculation then turn into 'the gospel truth' down the line, despite no actual confirmation from official sources...

This is where some peoples' frustrations have come from in the past - they believed other people who claimed they knew it, but it was merely speculation. Let's keep calling it what it is, hey! Guessing...
The rumour-mongers often use the same technique as "psychic predictions"; make a load guesses and then claim the small amount which turn out to be true as "hits" which prove the predictor's insight.

Meanwhile, eight years of inaccurate McGann predictions are swept under the carpet. (Unless it took a really long time to shoot Night of the Doctor.)
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Old 20-03-2014, 10:52
johnnysaucepn
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The rumour-mongers often use the same technique as "psychic predictions"; make a load guesses and then claim the small amount which turn out to be true as "hits" which prove the predictor's insight.

Meanwhile, eight years of inaccurate McGann predictions are swept under the carpet. (Unless it took a really long time to shoot Night of the Doctor.)
Ah, the Texan Sharpshooter Fallacy.
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