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Why producers can't develop any companion without creating a romantic relationships?!
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doctor blue box
19-03-2014
Whilst it seems at though would be refreshing to see a hard as nail's type companion who has no romantic interest or close relationships of any sort, without it I think the writers struggle to see how to further develop the character or have reasons to show their various emotions.

Take Clara, some have said she seemed a bit flat in series 7 but there was still the 'impossible girl' mystery to keep intrigue over here character. Now though that's all done so they obviously have to have a way to further the character and keep her interesting, so hence in comes danny pink, who I think it's safe to assume will at least be a close friend but is fairly likely to develop into a love interest also.
Face Of Jack
19-03-2014
I always had a 'fan-fic' notion that Dr 5 and Tegan were having it away behind Tardis doors!
Thrombin
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“The Classic series was full of romantic relationships for the companions.


They just weren't spread out over multiple stories

Bye Doctor I'm off down the Amazon with this Scientist I just met who is like a young version of you.

Bye Doctor I'm staying on Gallifrey with this guy I just met even though non Time Lords aren't really welcomed here.


Bye Doctor you thought I was dead but I'm really eloping with this alien Barbarian King.


Bye Doctor I'm leaving you to travel with this Intergalactic Con Man.”

You forgot "Bye Grandfather, thanks for leaving behind with this boy I just met amongst the ruins of a post Invasion Earth."
soulboy77
19-03-2014
I always thought the Doctor should be intellectually beyond romantic relationships at his age! For companions it's a handy way of writing them out by pairing them off with someone so that they can decide to continue with their 'normal' life. Personally I don't think a romantic liason inclusion when in the middle of saving the universe actually adds anything to a story.
JackMShep
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“I always thought the Doctor should be intellectually beyond romantic relationships at his age! For companions it's a handy way of writing them out by pairing them off with someone so that they can decide to continue with their 'normal' life. Personally I don't think a romantic liason inclusion when in the middle of saving the universe actually adds anything to a story.”

Are you saying old or intellectual people can't have romantic relationships?
sebbie3000
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“I always thought the Doctor should be intellectually beyond romantic relationships at his age! For companions it's a handy way of writing them out by pairing them off with someone so that they can decide to continue with their 'normal' life. Personally I don't think a romantic liason inclusion when in the middle of saving the universe actually adds anything to a story.”

So having a more personal reason for saving the universe wouldn't add anything to the story? I find that difficult to believe! Especially as it has been done time and time again in many different forms (telly, film, wroitten media, graphic novels, etc...).
Shawn_Lunn
19-03-2014
Similarly why do some fans reduce a character because they are/might be in a relationship with another character?
doctor blue box
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by soulboy77:
“I always thought the Doctor should be intellectually beyond romantic relationships at his age! For companions it's a handy way of writing them out by pairing them off with someone so that they can decide to continue with their 'normal' life. Personally I don't think a romantic liason inclusion when in the middle of saving the universe actually adds anything to a story.”

Whilst I don't think he is beyond relationships, I do think rose, river, and practically any human are way to young for him. Look at jackies reaction when she thought he was about 40ish and shacking up with her daughter. Most people would look twice if they saw an 80 year old man with a 19 year old girl and yet, in the case of rose, she was 19 when they met and he was 900. Obviously he dosen't look his age but that dosen't change the fact that he is that old and he knows it.
GiarcYekrub
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by JackMShep:
“Because having relationships is a big part of everyone's life- it gives the characters a third dimension”

^ This
Thrombin
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by doctor blue box:
“Whilst I don't think he is beyond relationships, I do think rose, river, and practically any human are way to young for him. Look at jackies reaction when she thought he was about 40ish and shacking up with her daughter. Most people would look twice if they saw an 80 year old man with a 19 year old girl and yet, in the case of rose, she was 19 when they met and he was 900. Obviously he dosen't look his age but that dosen't change the fact that he is that old and he knows it.”

I think a lot of the stigma involved in a young woman having a relationship with an much older man is based on the idea that the older man is less attractive, less fit and not too far off becoming infirm, senile and/or dead while the woman is still in the prime of her life. So inherently it seems like a bad fit. Obviously that doesn't apply with the Doctor.

There's also the issue of maturity and experience but many of the Doctor's incarnations seem to be somewhat less than mature most of the time and, sometimes, experience can be overrated. I think the Doctor is far more interested in a person's spirit, courage and ability to challenge him than on a person's age. Particularly given that, to someone of the Doctor's age, pretty much everyone he meets would be a mere infant in comparison. He can't allow himself to think like that or he would become insufferably arrogant and dismissive of pretty much everyone he meets (not that some of his incarnations haven't been just that, come to think of it )
bp2
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“First of all... Wow!

Secondly, I'm sorry, but you're wrong with many of those. Bart has frequently fallen in love and been smitten with girls.Sherlock Holmes has/had Irene Adler.Blackadder has been explained previously. Both Wallace and Gromit have had love interests, with Wallace's being major pivotal plot points. Either you are ignoring the romance, or you're just not seeing it. Either way it is very much, quite obviously there.

You can have some characters without having romatic relationships. But in creating a character who is incapable of or actively shuns them, that is an essential part of their character which is often exposed, in much the same frequency as a romantic relationship would be. And to create a character that is capable of it, doesn't actively shun it, but it just never happens for - that would be a very one-dimensional character.”

Forgot about Bart's relationship and they don't happen frequently (I think around 5 times in hundreds of episodes) but those relationships do not define his character and the events of the episode are forgotten.

As for Blackadder I don't remember episodes of by heart and I was thinking of Blackadder the third when I wrote that. Could be wrong again but replace Blackadder with Baldrick.

Wallace and Gromit, he never had a romantic relationship. He fancied three characters that is not a relationship especially when one of them tried to kill him. He normally just ends up rescuing them. The closest to a relationship was to the person in the movie but I can't remember the movie so maybe he had a relationship but from what I remember was Wallace rescuing her, being invited to her house and expressing how much he loved her.

Also it is extremely debatable whether Sherlock loved Irene Adler and I don't think you can count that as a romantic relationship.

As for the last bit I don't believe that is one dimensional. I know several people like that and they certainly aren't what I call one dimensional.
JackMShep
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“Forgot about Bart's relationship and they don't happen frequently (I think around 5 times in hundreds of episodes) but those relationships do not define his character and the events of the episode are forgotten.

As for Blackadder I don't remember episodes of by heart and I was thinking of Blackadder the third when I wrote that. Could be wrong again but replace Blackadder with Baldrick.

Wallace and Gromit, he never had a romantic relationship. He fancied three characters that is not a relationship especially when one of them tried to kill him. He normally just ends up rescuing them. The closest to a relationship was to the person in the movie but I can't remember the movie so maybe he had a relationship but from what I remember was Wallace rescuing her, being invited to her house and expressing how much he loved her.

Also it is extremely debatable whether Sherlock loved Irene Adler and I don't think you can count that as a romantic relationship.

As for the last bit I don't believe that is one dimensional. I know several people like that and they certainly aren't what I call one dimensional.”

Yes, but surely must have had infatuations, or even if they have been completely A sexual all their live, then they would still know people in romantic relationships. That's the point, even if one of the characters themselves doesn't fall in love, it'll be unreasonable and quite frankly boring if this was never addressed again in the shows history. Also although I'm not an advocate of the lovely-dovey screaming girl fans, they are nonetheless fans of the show and therefore have as much of a right to have what they want in the show as we do.
saladfingers81
19-03-2014
Are we really not expecting some more complex characterization to appear in Doctor Who than that of Bart Simpson, Wallace and Gromit and bloody Thunderbirds?!?! Jesus wept.
bp2
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“Are we really not expecting some more complex characterization to appear in Doctor Who than that of Bart Simpson, Wallace and Gromit and bloody Thunderbirds?!?! Jesus wept.”

That is not what I said at all. I was saying you can create good characters when there is no or lack of romantic relationships. Doctor Who has never been about romantic relationships anyway, it is simply a story where a good person comes along and saves the day. That is what it is about.
saladfingers81
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“That is not what I said at all. I was saying you can create good characters when there is no or lack of romantic relationships. Doctor Who has never been about romantic relationships anyway, it is simply a story where a good person comes along and saves the day. That is what it is about.”

I'm not sure what show you've been watching but Doctor Who has never been as simple as just a good person saving the day. Otherwise it would've gotten dull before Troughton took over.
bp2
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“I'm not sure what show you've been watching but Doctor Who has never been as simple as just a good person saving the day. Otherwise it would've gotten dull before Troughton took over.”

Really?

The Doctor arrives in TARDIS
Sees people and/or aliens needing help
Defeats monsters and/or villains
The Doctor leaves in TARDIS
doctor blue box
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“That is not what I said at all. I was saying you can create good characters when there is no or lack of romantic relationships. Doctor Who has never been about romantic relationships anyway, it is simply a story where a good person comes along and saves the day. That is what it is about.”

From episode 1 you've got the loving relationship between Susan and her 'grandfather' so whilst not a romantic example it shows that the show was never 'just' about the doctor saving the day

Also I think him simply being a 'good person' is a bit of a grey area really. His overall flaws and those he has in each incarnation are as much what makes the character as interesting as his heroics.
daveyboy7472
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“Forgot about Bart's relationship and they don't happen frequently (I think around 5 times in hundreds of episodes) but those relationships do not define his character and the events of the episode are forgotten.

As for Blackadder I don't remember episodes of by heart and I was thinking of Blackadder the third when I wrote that. Could be wrong again but replace Blackadder with Baldrick.

Wallace and Gromit, he never had a romantic relationship. He fancied three characters that is not a relationship especially when one of them tried to kill him. He normally just ends up rescuing them. The closest to a relationship was to the person in the movie but I can't remember the movie so maybe he had a relationship but from what I remember was Wallace rescuing her, being invited to her house and expressing how much he loved her.

Also it is extremely debatable whether Sherlock loved Irene Adler and I don't think you can count that as a romantic relationship.

As for the last bit I don't believe that is one dimensional. I know several people like that and they certainly aren't what I call one dimensional.”

Even though Baldrick was not seen to have a romance in Blackadder I'd say there was potential there had the writers decided to go down that route. He fancied Molly the prostitute in Series 2 and he also told Blackadder he wanted to find his Miss Right in Series 4. Okay, it would probably never happen but it showed even a simple character such as Baldrick had a caring side even though he was bit thick. Even similar characters such as Alice in The Vicar of Dibley and Trigger in Only Fools and Horses found a bit of loving.

Getting it back to Doctor Who, any character can suddenly develop a love interest if the writer chooses, even if there have been no signs of it previously. Leela was a good example of this despite her terrible exit and off course in the new series we have The Doctor himself having a love interest in Rose. Looking further afield, Doc Brown in the Back To The Future movies, who saw that romance coming in the 3rd Film, wouldn't have seemed possible in the first two.

meglosmurmurs
19-03-2014
To attract female viewers that aren't Sci-Fi fans of course.
Rather a cynical viewpoint but that's what the people in-charge of TV are most bothered about - ratings.
johnnysaucepn
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by Thrombin:
“I think a lot of the stigma involved in a young woman having a relationship with an much older man is based on the idea that the older man is less attractive, less fit and not too far off becoming infirm, senile and/or dead while the woman is still in the prime of her life. So inherently it seems like a bad fit. Obviously that doesn't apply with the Doctor.”

Not really. The stigma relates to the stereotypes of men being more sexually aggressive than women and younger girls being innocent and vulnerable. An older, experienced man is seen to be capable of manipulating a younger woman, and girls are supposedly attracted to mature, resourceful men.

Which is why Susan became the Doctor's granddaughter.
Joe_Zel
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by bp2:
“And you can have good or decent characters without them having romance e.g. Jonathan Creek (In that case I would say having a wife made the character worse),”

The first three series of Jonathan Creek had the will they-won't they chemistry between Jonathan and Maddie and their constant flirting and trying to make each other jealous. Whole subplots were devoted to his dates or girlfriends of the time long before any wife came onto the scene.

To say Jonathan Creek is a character without any romance or love life is wide of the mark.
The_Judge_
19-03-2014
Just thought I'd share this

http://m.wikihow.com/Be-the-Type-of-...hat-Girls-Love

We can roll it into the forum FAQ if we ever get one
saladfingers81
19-03-2014
Originally Posted by The_Judge_:
“Just thought I'd share this

http://m.wikihow.com/Be-the-Type-of-...hat-Girls-Love

We can roll it into the forum FAQ if we ever get one ”

that article was almost as offensive as an episode of The Big Bang Theory. Almost.
The_Judge_
20-03-2014
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“that article was almost as offensive as an episode of The Big Bang Theory. Almost.”

I've never heard the phrase "Unix Beard" before. I'm going to accidentally put it on my cv.
johnnysaucepn
20-03-2014
Originally Posted by The_Judge_:
“Just thought I'd share this

http://m.wikihow.com/Be-the-Type-of-...hat-Girls-Love

We can roll it into the forum FAQ if we ever get one ”

What a patronising article. It reads like it was written by someone who has never spent any time with a) nerds or b) women.
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