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Do you want season 8 to be like season 5? |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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For me, season 5 was when the show stopped being 'must watch TV' and became 'record and watch at some point later in the week when I have an hour to kill'.
I'm hoping for a return to 'must watch TV' and having Brian Minchin back on board as Executive Producer makes me very hopeful that will be the case. Quote:
I agree. I think The Eleventh Hour was the last time I was genuinely excited about watching an episode in advance. I remember I had to take my parents to a party before it was shown and racing back to watch it with ten minutes left to spare. I saw nothing in that episode that warned me of the mediocrity to come.
Then it did come, week after week, and from that point on, despite the odd good episode here and there, it's been a case of watching it out of duty, not really bothering if I've missed watching an episode live, just catching up on it when I could and sometimes that could be up to four days later. In all the years I've watched Doctor Who, even during the McCoy years, I've never experienced that and as you say I want a return to 'must watch TV' and feel absolutely gutted if I have to go out and miss it. To be excited before every episode again, it's a long lost feeling I want back again. Hopefully Series 8 will provide that but while Moffat is in charge, my hopes aren't high. ![]() There have still been good episodes scattered through the last few series but as a whole they have been average, with the concept of story arcs diminished to the point of nearly being destroyed completely. I genuinely wanted to believe Moffat had something up his sleeve each time he proposed an arc at the start of each series, but year after year we were left with unsatisfactory arcs whose finales left more questions than they answered, then after waiting years for answers to what were built up to be grand important questions in each series we were supposed to be satisfied with a few mumbled lines in matt's last episode. During series 1-4 there were the odd dud episodes granted, but it feels that there have been more than ever during 5-7. Also in series 1-4 there was always a grandness to each finale that was consistent each year, in my opinion I will go into series 8 with an open mind and optimism as always, as I genuinely hope that Moffat can pull it out of the bag this time, I just won't necessarily get my hopes up. People are thinking it will be different with a different doctor, but the scripts are still being either written, approved or edited by the same person. I just hope that person has realized his mistakes and learned from them. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Summary answer: Matt's first year was fantastic, despite Moffat's subsequent arcs being tiresome. But I'd like Capaldi to be something fresh again, not a retread. Eccleston's year is still my overall favourite.
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#28 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 10,236
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Yes. Definitely. Series 5 was absolutely fantastic.
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#29 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 410
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I agree with a lot of the previous posts. After watching the show for years I found myself slipping into i will watch it later mode because the excitement had been wiped out by the silly writing. I still can't get my head round Amy remembering the Doctor and he will come back alive again. What????? Matt was a great Doctor but unfortunately everything else wasn't. Every significant moment lacked impact for me and felt cringy. River and the Doctor. Ugghhhh!! I'm hoping things will improve. Starting with never seeing River Song again.
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#30 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,464
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I liked S5 so if there were similarites would be a bad thing. Like how it had a solid storyline flowing through from begining to end. New doctor, new companion. Mystery solved at end and resolution companion get married to the other man in her life. S6 had some good episodes too. TDW,AGMGTW and TGWW. Good point about some storylines taking too long to be resolved 3 years in 11's case. Plus if you write in something follow through. TDOTD completely changed everything we thought we knew about the time war and what the doctor did or turns out didn't do to end it. Plus the whole trenzalore thing.Doctor was suppose to die and be buried there but then he didn't . Instead he was gifted with a nice shiny new set of regenerations. Looking forward to S8.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 178
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Quote:
Did you really think The Eleventh Hour was dismal???
The 'bad food' scene left me cold and made me cringe. The alien was nothing special. I didn't like Amy Pond, except when she was a little girl. The smutty humour seemed excessive. Worst of all, the resolution was totally unconvincing (he wrote a computer virus on a phone in a few seconds? Really? I don't care how clever he is, he would need to have super speed in his thumbs. Even alien ships with giant eyes are more believable than that. Also, there was no way the Doctor could know that making all the clocks say zero would lead the aliens to the source of the virus, or even get their attention - he took a wild leap and got very lucky, which is an approach we saw a lot of from 11 and I never liked it). Also, and I know I'm opening a 'pandorica' here, but IMO Matt's performance in his first few episodes was quite weak. He doesn't seem convincing to me as the Doctor in those episodes, because too much of his own personality shows through, and even Moffat has said that his real personality is very different to his Doctor persona. This is not me slamming Matt, truly. His performances got much, much better as time went on, and ended up being brilliant. In fact, I've read interviews where Matt has said how he has constantly worked to develop his performances. His hard work has really paid off and I have a huge amount of respect for him for that. He had a harder job than most Doctors, simply because his own personality is so different to the character he has worked to create. IMO he is not the only Doctor to struggle to get into the part, but do a brilliant job later on (Sylvester McCoy springs to mind), so I don't hold that against him at all. But I do feel that his, shall we say, 'greeness' reduces the quality of the early episodes of series 5, in the same way that Sylvester McCoy's early 'clowning' contributed to the overall awfulness of season 24. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many will disagree, but please be gentle
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#32 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Quote:
Well, maybe not dismal, but not good either, sorry. There were a lot of things I disliked in that episode, and it certainly didn't fill me with confidence in the new doctor and new producer.
The 'bad food' scene left me cold and made me cringe. The alien was nothing special. I didn't like Amy Pond, except when she was a little girl. The smutty humour seemed excessive. Worst of all, the resolution was totally unconvincing (he wrote a computer virus on a phone in a few seconds? Really? I don't care how clever he is, he would need to have super speed in his thumbs. Even alien ships with giant eyes are more believable than that. Also, there was no way the Doctor could know that making all the clocks say zero would lead the aliens to the source of the virus, or even get their attention - he took a wild leap and got very lucky, which is an approach we saw a lot of from 11 and I never liked it). Also, and I know I'm opening a 'pandorica' here, but IMO Matt's performance in his first few episodes was quite weak. He doesn't seem convincing to me as the Doctor in those episodes, because too much of his own personality shows through, and even Moffat has said that his real personality is very different to his Doctor persona. This is not me slamming Matt, truly. His performances got much, much better as time went on, and ended up being brilliant. In fact, I've read interviews where Matt has said how he has constantly worked to develop his performances. His hard work has really paid off and I have a huge amount of respect for him for that. He had a harder job than most Doctors, simply because his own personality is so different to the character he has worked to create. IMO he is not the only Doctor to struggle to get into the part, but do a brilliant job later on (Sylvester McCoy springs to mind), so I don't hold that against him at all. But I do feel that his, shall we say, 'greeness' reduces the quality of the early episodes of series 5, in the same way that Sylvester McCoy's early 'clowning' contributed to the overall awfulness of season 24. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many will disagree, but please be gentle ![]() |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sutton
Posts: 4,973
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Quote:
Well, maybe not dismal, but not good either, sorry. There were a lot of things I disliked in that episode, and it certainly didn't fill me with confidence in the new doctor and new producer.
The 'bad food' scene left me cold and made me cringe. The alien was nothing special. I didn't like Amy Pond, except when she was a little girl. The smutty humour seemed excessive. Worst of all, the resolution was totally unconvincing (he wrote a computer virus on a phone in a few seconds? Really? I don't care how clever he is, he would need to have super speed in his thumbs. Even alien ships with giant eyes are more believable than that. Also, there was no way the Doctor could know that making all the clocks say zero would lead the aliens to the source of the virus, or even get their attention - he took a wild leap and got very lucky, which is an approach we saw a lot of from 11 and I never liked it). Also, and I know I'm opening a 'pandorica' here, but IMO Matt's performance in his first few episodes was quite weak. He doesn't seem convincing to me as the Doctor in those episodes, because too much of his own personality shows through, and even Moffat has said that his real personality is very different to his Doctor persona. This is not me slamming Matt, truly. His performances got much, much better as time went on, and ended up being brilliant. In fact, I've read interviews where Matt has said how he has constantly worked to develop his performances. His hard work has really paid off and I have a huge amount of respect for him for that. He had a harder job than most Doctors, simply because his own personality is so different to the character he has worked to create. IMO he is not the only Doctor to struggle to get into the part, but do a brilliant job later on (Sylvester McCoy springs to mind), so I don't hold that against him at all. But I do feel that his, shall we say, 'greeness' reduces the quality of the early episodes of series 5, in the same way that Sylvester McCoy's early 'clowning' contributed to the overall awfulness of season 24. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many will disagree, but please be gentle ![]() So I wonder if it is mostly your own bias that has projected his 'easing' into his role? I remember pointing out the filming blocks to people before who had said that he had hit his stride by the Angels two-parter. And when they found out that they had been the first he filmed as the Doctor, some watched again and said how they felt differently in hind-sight. Just an idea... |
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#34 |
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,080
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Whenever I rewatch Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone it still amazes me that it was Matt's first time in front of the camera as The Doctor. Sure I might be a bit biased because he's a favourite Doctor, but personally think he's fantastic from the off. The scene where Iain Glenn's character is about to have his neck broken ("I wish I knew you.") the "...don't put in a trap" speech, tiny funny little bits throughout like the bit when he clumsily tears off a 'hand rail' or whatever it is in the place Amy first gets attacked by an Angel; pleading with Amy then biting her hand...
I could go on, and on, and on, but dont worry, I wont. You get my drift.
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#35 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 178
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Quote:
Re: your opinion of Matt getting better after the first few episodes... He must have reverted then, as they weren't filmed first. In fact, the first episode was filmed fifth. After the Angels two parter (both made up the first block so were filmed first), then episodes 2 and 3 (which were filmed in reverse order as the second block).
So I wonder if it is mostly your own bias that has projected his 'easing' into his role? I remember pointing out the filming blocks to people before who had said that he had hit his stride by the Angels two-parter. And when they found out that they had been the first he filmed as the Doctor, some watched again and said how they felt differently in hind-sight. Just an idea... |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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And as far as bias goes, I have no bias against Matt Smith. He was a really good Doctor. I had doubts about him to begin with, I admit, but I have gone back to these episodes several times since growing to like him, and still see the same imperfections.
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#37 |
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Nope. You've misunderstood what I meant by 'the first few episodes'. I would say that The Time of Angels / Flesh and Stone were the low point in terms of Matt's performance (with Beast Below and Victory of the Daleks having the worst scripts), and things picked up with episode 6 onwards. His performance in Eleventh Hour was strong compared to the four episodes that followed, but didn't impress me.
Fair enough. The use of 'first few' was confusing, as it implied the actual first few! |
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#38 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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So you mean the first few were well acted (but with a couple of poor scripst), and the next couple being those that were inferior?
Fair enough. The use of 'first few' was confusing, as it implied the actual first few! |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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I think Matt's performance improved across the episodes in roughly (but not exactly) the order they were filmed. From episode 6 onwards I felt he was doing a good job, and generally grew more impressed with him from then on. The scripts were generally better from that point on also. All of this is, of course, IMHO. Not trying to say I know better than anyone else, cos I know a lot of people loved Matt and Season 5 from the outset.
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#40 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Worst of all, the resolution was totally unconvincing (he wrote a computer virus on a phone in a few seconds? Really? I don't care how clever he is, he would need to have super speed in his thumbs.
Quote:
Also, there was no way the Doctor could know that making all the clocks say zero would lead the aliens to the source of the virus, or even get their attention - he took a wild leap and got very lucky, which is an approach we saw a lot of from 11 and I never liked it).
Of course he would - they were actively looking for Prisoner Zero. They were monitoring Earth, they were actively hooked into all the human communication systems, remember? They couldn't not notice. All they need to do is be curious enough to examine the transmission, something the Doctor deliberately made easy for them. He basically planted a big sign saying, "Oi, over here".For my money, Matt hit the mark right on the head from his first moments, whether you count that as Flesh and Stone or Eleventh Hour. He inhabited the Doctor from the word go. |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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I agree that Series 5 started well with 'The Eleventh Hour' - but ohh my how I was disappointed after that! Matt Smith was great as the new Doctor.....he had a big hole to fill after Tennant!
But the stories went a bit bizarre for my liking. If someone died - they could come back. (How many times did Rory - and Amy 'die'). How many times did the Doctor die etc etc... yawn yawn...turn back time.....It was no longer a worry about ANYONE! Because they would be back next week!! Doctor Who NEVER tampered with time as much as this series did! It played and failed (IMO) and the Sonic Screwdriver was just as much to blame!! Hopefully series 8 will turn out to be a dream - and Clara will wake up in the shower and see Peter Capaldi near his Police Box.....and go from there....as mates! Sorry Matt Smith fans (I liked him - but not that much!)
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#42 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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For the reasons I'm about to cover I really do hope Series 8 does its own thing whilst retaining some stronger elements from series gone by. I really hope Moffat is big enough to admit that not everything he's done is a success and he needs to re-incorporate some previous elements along with his own stronger elements to make Series 8 the best it can possibly be.
I think Smith did a sterling job in Series 5 - I think Vincent and the Doctor was the real turnaround point where I accepted him and from there through to A Christmas Carol was my favourite run of episodes in his era. Series 5's issues are generally applicable to Series 6 and 7 as well (perhaps my only problem with S5 exclusively is how cold and detached the main characters were - this improved later on) which is a shame as that spans a lot of episodes. I find that half of the scripts are trying too hard to get quotes churned out - everything feels so forced in its delivery as if its trying to find its way onto t-shirts and Tumblr blogs everywhere. It's quite jarring. The pacing of the series needs sorting as well. Series 5 hit the right notes with the pacing but then it retained the format of Series 1-4. 6 and 7 were admirable attempts at something new, but it hasn't worked... I want two-part stories back to give the series more of an identity again, to give it a particular feel rather than just feeling like a run of random episodes that could nearly be re-assembled in any old order. Series 1's two-parters were both set around Albion Hospital in different eras of London, Series 3's two-parters explored the concept of humanity from the perspectives of a Dalek and a Timelord respectively - there's patterns and links and ties and coherency. Something that Series 6 and to a greater extent Series 7 were lacking, Take out a few lines from most episodes and they could be slotted in anywhere else - because they are ultimately inconsequential. The two-parter is important, and helps less dedicated fans keep up with the series better when they're written well. The story arcs have also suffered, partly because of the pacing issues and partly because of a lack of satisfying resolution. Series 6's final episode had some real highlights but it was a pitiful excuse for a finale. Part of the problem seems to be the focus of these arcs - Series 5 was an exploding TARDIS, Series 6 was a dying Doctor, Series 7 was an impossible companion. We all know that the TARDIS will be fine in the end, we all know The Doctor is going to get out of it somehow and we'll struggle to care about a companion who remains mysterious and ambiguous for the whole series. If there's to be such a focus on the story arc then the pay-off needs to be there, and that can't happen when we know the basics of it to begin with. The other problem is how Moffat's story arcs consume stories that they shouldn't. The crack in the wall totally undermined and diminished the Weeping Angels in their own two part story in Series 5. Then in Series 6, The Doctor undermined everything in Day of the Moon when giving Amy and Rory the option of 'investigating the girl in the spacesuit' or having 'some adventures'. Moffat put his own story in a league of its own and belittled everything else essentially. You kick off a series with a two-parter that isn't self-contained and then tell me that everything else that follows is just 'some adventures'...not very tactful. Another problem is a lack of a sense of wonder - again, slightly improved in Series 7 in places but nowhere near how good it used to be. There used to be a genuine excitement at where The Doctor and his companion were going - Rose's glee-filled "I don't care" comments when Nine took a wrong turning at the start of The Unquiet Dead, Donna's ecstatic response to being on an alien planet in Planet of the Ood, Wilf looking with undiluted awe at the Earth from above. Those little moments, those touching scenes - they've gone. Eleven and his companions were so busy rushing about that we never really got the chance to savour the places we were going - it was always about what cool things can we see and do in this cool place. It reached the point in Nightmare in Silver where we had characters complaining about not having phone signal when they're taken in the TARDIS to the biggest theme park in the universe - that is not what I want to see in Doctor Who. I don't care if the theme park is defunct, this is supposed to be amazing and there's the chance to uncover a mystery... let it be amazing! |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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I'd prefer it to me more like Season 6, my personal Favorite season, A season long arc, a few 2 parters, A mid season spectacular, Some emotional episodes and some more light hearted ones
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#44 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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Posts: 8,406
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I think that with the Doctor getting a complete new regeneration cycle, it would be nice to free him from all the baggage he's had since the show returned - the time war/guilt over his companions/outliving his own people/lonely ancient being/his death.
This is a brand new Doctor at the start of a brand new life cycle. It would be lovely to lighten the mood a bit and have him just embracing the adventure again. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Peri's Cleavage
Posts: 14,690
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Quote:
I think that with the Doctor getting a complete new regeneration cycle, it would be nice to free him from all the baggage he's had since the show returned - the time war/guilt over his companions/outliving his own people/lonely ancient being/his death.
This is a brand new Doctor at the start of a brand new life cycle. It would be lovely to lighten the mood a bit and have him just embracing the adventure again. Get The Doctor back to how he used to be, an explorer in time and space who helps people. Let the guest characters in each story be the story rather than The Doctor himself.
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#46 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Steven Moffats pantry
Posts: 8,808
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Quote:
For the reasons I'm about to cover I really do hope Series 8 does its own thing whilst retaining some stronger elements from series gone by. I really hope Moffat is big enough to admit that not everything he's done is a success and he needs to re-incorporate some previous elements along with his own stronger elements to make Series 8 the best it can possibly be.
I think Smith did a sterling job in Series 5 - I think Vincent and the Doctor was the real turnaround point where I accepted him and from there through to A Christmas Carol was my favourite run of episodes in his era. Series 5's issues are generally applicable to Series 6 and 7 as well (perhaps my only problem with S5 exclusively is how cold and detached the main characters were - this improved later on) which is a shame as that spans a lot of episodes. I find that half of the scripts are trying too hard to get quotes churned out - everything feels so forced in its delivery as if its trying to find its way onto t-shirts and Tumblr blogs everywhere. It's quite jarring. The pacing of the series needs sorting as well. Series 5 hit the right notes with the pacing but then it retained the format of Series 1-4. 6 and 7 were admirable attempts at something new, but it hasn't worked... I want two-part stories back to give the series more of an identity again, to give it a particular feel rather than just feeling like a run of random episodes that could nearly be re-assembled in any old order. Series 1's two-parters were both set around Albion Hospital in different eras of London, Series 3's two-parters explored the concept of humanity from the perspectives of a Dalek and a Timelord respectively - there's patterns and links and ties and coherency. Something that Series 6 and to a greater extent Series 7 were lacking, Take out a few lines from most episodes and they could be slotted in anywhere else - because they are ultimately inconsequential. The two-parter is important, and helps less dedicated fans keep up with the series better when they're written well. The story arcs have also suffered, partly because of the pacing issues and partly because of a lack of satisfying resolution. Series 6's final episode had some real highlights but it was a pitiful excuse for a finale. Part of the problem seems to be the focus of these arcs - Series 5 was an exploding TARDIS, Series 6 was a dying Doctor, Series 7 was an impossible companion. We all know that the TARDIS will be fine in the end, we all know The Doctor is going to get out of it somehow and we'll struggle to care about a companion who remains mysterious and ambiguous for the whole series. If there's to be such a focus on the story arc then the pay-off needs to be there, and that can't happen when we know the basics of it to begin with. The other problem is how Moffat's story arcs consume stories that they shouldn't. The crack in the wall totally undermined and diminished the Weeping Angels in their own two part story in Series 5. Then in Series 6, The Doctor undermined everything in Day of the Moon when giving Amy and Rory the option of 'investigating the girl in the spacesuit' or having 'some adventures'. Moffat put his own story in a league of its own and belittled everything else essentially. You kick off a series with a two-parter that isn't self-contained and then tell me that everything else that follows is just 'some adventures'...not very tactful. Another problem is a lack of a sense of wonder - again, slightly improved in Series 7 in places but nowhere near how good it used to be. There used to be a genuine excitement at where The Doctor and his companion were going - Rose's glee-filled "I don't care" comments when Nine took a wrong turning at the start of The Unquiet Dead, Donna's ecstatic response to being on an alien planet in Planet of the Ood, Wilf looking with undiluted awe at the Earth from above. Those little moments, those touching scenes - they've gone. Eleven and his companions were so busy rushing about that we never really got the chance to savour the places we were going - it was always about what cool things can we see and do in this cool place. It reached the point in Nightmare in Silver where we had characters complaining about not having phone signal when they're taken in the TARDIS to the biggest theme park in the universe - that is not what I want to see in Doctor Who. I don't care if the theme park is defunct, this is supposed to be amazing and there's the chance to uncover a mystery... let it be amazing! If the companion gives something up to travel with the Doctor it makes the need to maintain that new life terribly important and you never know what might happen. The Tardis should never become a glorified coach tour for disenchanted young females who need a slight kick up the arse in the inspiration stakes. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense that they would do that. Its time travel. In a boring way it makes more sense. But dramatically its a bad idea. It reached its nadir in Nightmare in Silver where those two brats blackmailed their way into getting a trip on the Tardis and were thoroughly ungrateful about it. Urggh. Of course in some ways it doesn't lessen the peril of the actual individual adventure as they can still get into trouble and need saving but it doesn't feel like a journey. Those special moments when the companion chooses to take that risk and travel with the Doctor as so many have done before. |
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#47 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 193
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I want it to be more like Seasons 12 and 13
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#48 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
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I think that with the Doctor getting a complete new regeneration cycle, it would be nice to free him from all the baggage he's had since the show returned - the time war/guilt over his companions/outliving his own people/lonely ancient being/his death.
This is a brand new Doctor at the start of a brand new life cycle. It would be lovely to lighten the mood a bit and have him just embracing the adventure again. Some of the baggage from Matts era I'd really like to see Capaldi's doctor free from is the concepts of timey wimey/time can be rewritten. These things add to an intelligent story in small doses occasionally, but they were way overdone in Matt's era, and detracted from the sense of drama in my opinion. Let the doctor be in set situations where he his decisions are unchangeable and he has to deal with the consequences. |
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#49 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,048
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I'd prefer it to me more like Season 6, my personal Favorite season, A season long arc, a few 2 parters, A mid season spectacular, Some emotional episodes and some more light hearted ones
Now of course classic Who was lots of individual stories rather than a series long arc (for the most part)..but due to those episodes being shorter and multipart it allowed them to build a villian over a number of episodes and the majority of episodes ended up with the bad guy having the upper hand. Each story had its own arc. Very hard to establish a villain as genuinely dangerous when they are neatly defeated in one episode. They manage it occasionally in new Who..but not often. |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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And for me part of this was the fact it turned into day tripping. No no no no no no no. Either travel with the Doctor properly or not at all. Otherwise where is the peril? There should be a sense of sacrifice for the companion. They should have to choose one life or the other. Doctor world or normal world. Instead Clara gets in a few minor scrapes and then can be home drinking tea on tha sofa and watching Location Location Location to have a bit of 'me' time. It simply doesn't work.
The Doctor does take his companions on day trips, that's exactly what he's trying to do, show them the wonders of the universe on less than 30 Altarian dollars a day. And that's usually required an increasing number of plot devices intended to keep them stuck on the Tardis. More importantly, one thing that the modern series has made a big thing of is that travelling with the Doctor changes you. You can't ever be free of that influence, you can never 'just' drink a cup of tea on the sofa again. And the Doctor's grown too, he understands the importance of home, that he can't just grab what he wants and hold it tight - that only screws up the companion worse. Perhaps the next companion will be someone who doesn't want to go home, or can't - an orphan, or a refugee. |
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