Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“A contract is a contract, it can have whatever terms the company wants in if you agree to it, the only terms are that it has to comply with the unfair contracts legislation and has to conform to consumer contract laws.
I fail to see any term in there that is not legal and I can't point to any legislation that makes that contract unfair. You get given the phone up front without having paid the retail cost and for the 1st 6 months it sell belongs to the operator, simple, just like the sim card technically remains the property of the network in all mobile network's contracts.
All a credit agreement is is a contract, and consumer laws on faulty goods will still apply to this EE contract.”
Sorry to hijack an old thread. That
you may fail to see any term that is not legal and that
you can't point to any legislation that makes that contract unfair.
A. doesn't make your reply a fact or the truth.
B. It does show your knowledge of the law is not as complete as you think, and it is lacking.
Hopefully the following will set you a little bit straighter where
B is concerned at least. Excuse the long post
Regarding EE's T&C's; specifically they state:
3.13 You may get Equipment from Us when you take out a Price Plan.
Unless We tell you otherwise, We will own any Equipment provided by Us for the first six months of the Minimum Term. During this time, You:
3.13.1
Cannot sell or otherwise permanently give the Equipment to anyone else.
3.13.2 Must take all reasonable care of the Equipment and keep it in reasonable condition (subject to usual wear
and tear) as if You owned it; and
3.13.3 Cannot change or alter the Equipment, other than standard software updates and app purchases.
3.14 After six months of the Minimum Term, and provided You have not broken any condition of this Agreement according to point 3.15 below, You will automatically own the Equipment.
3.15 If during the first six months of the Minimum Term, and before You get ownership of the Equipment provided to You by Us, you break any condition of this Agreement according to points 4.4.5 or 7.3.1, We may give You Written Notice to return the Equipment to Us.
That's pretty clear then; nobody can argue otherwise.....
Where do I start- not only would EE have trouble enforcing the above, but the T&C's are in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
The above terms and conditions act as a conditional sales agreement. What is a conditional sales agreement you ask?
A conditional sale agreement is an agreement which deals with the sale of goods to a consumer, but with a
key difference from other completed contracts for the sale of goods. Namely, it involves the situation whereby a seller will sell the goods to a consumer but the title of the goods will be withheld until all of the payments for the goods have been made. You won’t own the goods until you've paid off all the instalments. When you’ve done this, the goods transfer to your ownership. This is called
getting good title.
And? So?
Well the problem is the creation of conditional sale agreements in England and Wales are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Your agreement must be in writing and contain specific information about the Act in order for it to be valid. Accordingly they must adhere to the following requirements:
The agreement must be in writing
The agreement must contain a statement that it is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974
The agreement must contain prescribed information including the following
The Annual Percentage Rate of Interest (APR)
The amount of credit
The cash price
The dates and amount of installations
The agreement must follow a set format
The agreement must give the debtor cancellation rights where the agreement is signed away from the trade premises of the Creditor. The cancellation rights must be clearly set out in the actual agreement
The agreement must be in more than one part in order to enable copies of the agreement to be given to the debtor
Also the agreement should contain a section
Repossession: your rights telling you how much you need to have paid to stop the creditor taking the goods back without a court order (or your consent). This should be a third of the total amount payable under the agreement.
If you have paid a third or more of the total amount payable, the goods become ‘protected goods’ and the creditor must go to court for an order for the goods to be returned unless you consent to the repossession. They cannot just come round and remove them (‘snatch them back’).
If a creditor ‘snatches back’ goods without a court order and without your consent where a third or more has been paid, you are entitled to a refund of all the money you have paid under the agreement.
Also, even if you have not paid more than a third of the total amount payable under the agreement, the creditor will need an order from the court, or your consent, to remove the goods from ‘any premises’ they are on.
All companies that offer conditional sale agreements
must be FCA authorised. If they are not,
this is against the law and you should report them to Trading Standards or the FCA.
Thus concludes my problem with regards to EE's purported 'ownership' of your goods- illegal and immoral.