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Recording from Sky HD using game capturing device


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Old 26-03-2014, 15:52
barracuda91
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I'm not sure what section to put this thread under but here it goes.

Okay, so I got the Elgato Game Capture HD and a HDMI splitter (this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so that I could record HD shows and movies from my Sky box to my computer.

I set it up and tested it on my PS3 which also has HDCP and it bypassed it and I was able to record in HD. However, when I do the same for the Sky box, it comes up with the "This display does not support HDCP".

I have it set up from the HDMI cable from the Sky box goes into the input of the splitter, then a HDMI cable runs from the output of the splitter to the input of the Elgato Game Capture, and a final HDMI cable runs from the output of the game capture to the TV. The game capture device is also attached to my laptop via USB to record.

So have I set something up wrong? Or is this a splitter that just doesn't strip the HDCP from the Sky box even though it does it for the PS3?
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Old 26-03-2014, 16:14
grahamlthompson
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I'm not sure what section to put this thread under but here it goes.

Okay, so I got the Elgato Game Capture HD and a HDMI splitter (this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so that I could record HD shows and movies from my Sky box to my computer.

I set it up and tested it on my PS3 which also has HDCP and it bypassed it and I was able to record in HD. However, when I do the same for the Sky box, it comes up with the "This display does not support HDCP".

I have it set up from the HDMI cable from the Sky box goes into the input of the splitter, then a HDMI cable runs from the output of the splitter to the input of the Elgato Game Capture, and a final HDMI cable runs from the output of the game capture to the TV. The game capture device is also attached to my laptop via USB to record.

So have I set something up wrong? Or is this a splitter that just doesn't strip the HDCP from the Sky box even though it does it for the PS3?
Gaming output from the games console does not normally have HDCP as it's not subject to broadcast/optical disc DRM restrictions, so there's nothing to strip. If you try recording the output of a PS3 while playing a commercial blu-ray then the situation should be the same as the Sky Box. To record in HD from a Sky box hdmi out you have to convert to analogue component output. The converter itself provided the HDCP handshake required from the Sky box output.

See

http://www.gadgetreview.com/2012/07/...hd-review.html

And double yeah, you can’t record anything off of HDMI that has copyright coding on it, so drop that wish right now.
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Old 26-03-2014, 16:20
chrisjr
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What happens if you plug the TV directly into one of the splitter outputs without the Elgato device connected? Do you get a picture on the TV from the Sky box?

If so try connecting the Elgato to the other splitter output leaving the TV connected to the splitter as well. See what happens then.
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Old 26-03-2014, 16:43
barracuda91
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What happens if you plug the TV directly into one of the splitter outputs without the Elgato device connected? Do you get a picture on the TV from the Sky box?

If so try connecting the Elgato to the other splitter output leaving the TV connected to the splitter as well. See what happens then.
I still get the same message "This display does not support HDCP". I suppose that must mean that the splitter doesn't actually strip the HDCP encryption then.
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Old 26-03-2014, 16:49
grahamlthompson
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I still get the same message "This display does not support HDCP". I suppose that must mean that the splitter doesn't actually strip the HDCP encryption then.
If it did selling it in the UK/EU would be illegal.
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Old 26-03-2014, 17:23
chrisjr
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I still get the same message "This display does not support HDCP". I suppose that must mean that the splitter doesn't actually strip the HDCP encryption then.
Did you power off the Sky box before you removed the Elgato box and power it back on when just the TV was connected? That should force the Sky box to redo the handshaking that takes place over HDMI. As should power cycling the splitter and possibly the TV.

I assume the TV you are using works fine when connected directly to the Sky box via HDMI?

Just that some of the reviews on the Amazon link you provided for the splitter seem to say it will work with a Sky box to split to two TVs. Which would imply the HDCP handshaking works under some situations. So might be worth power cycling everything just to be sure.

But I suspect that if you try to connect the Elgato box up the HDCP handshaking will fail to that and the HDCP error message will return.
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Old 26-03-2014, 17:37
grahamlthompson
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Did you power off the Sky box before you removed the Elgato box and power it back on when just the TV was connected? That should force the Sky box to redo the handshaking that takes place over HDMI. As should power cycling the splitter and possibly the TV.

I assume the TV you are using works fine when connected directly to the Sky box via HDMI?

Just that some of the reviews on the Amazon link you provided for the splitter seem to say it will work with a Sky box to split to two TVs. Which would imply the HDCP handshaking works under some situations. So might be worth power cycling everything just to be sure.

But I suspect that if you try to connect the Elgato box up the HDCP handshaking will fail to that and the HDCP error message will return.
The OP wants to record Sky HD content to his computer using the Elgato box as he does for gaming content. Not display the sky box output on a TV.

Okay, so I got the Elgato Game Capture HD and a HDMI splitter (this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so that I could record HD shows and movies from my Sky box to my computer.
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:17
barracuda91
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Did you power off the Sky box before you removed the Elgato box and power it back on when just the TV was connected? That should force the Sky box to redo the handshaking that takes place over HDMI. As should power cycling the splitter and possibly the TV.

I assume the TV you are using works fine when connected directly to the Sky box via HDMI?

Just that some of the reviews on the Amazon link you provided for the splitter seem to say it will work with a Sky box to split to two TVs. Which would imply the HDCP handshaking works under some situations. So might be worth power cycling everything just to be sure.

But I suspect that if you try to connect the Elgato box up the HDCP handshaking will fail to that and the HDCP error message will return.
By powering off, do you mean having the Sky box on standby or switching it off at the mains? At the moment I have only had it turned on from standby.
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:52
nvingo
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The OP wants to record Sky HD content to his computer using the Elgato box as he does for gaming content. Not display the sky box output on a TV.
Maybe Chrisjr suggested that to trick the Sky box into sending video by HDMI (to the TV) then attach the HDMI to/turn on the capture box so either demonstrating it is the capture box which the Sky box doesn't like, or forcing it to work.
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:28
chrisjr
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By powering off, do you mean having the Sky box on standby or switching it off at the mains? At the moment I have only had it turned on from standby.
In and out of standby should be enough. If that still triggers the HDCP error from the Sky box then that suggests the Sky box and splitter are not happy together. Which does beg the question as to how those posters on the Amazon website got theirs working with Sky boxes.

The only other thing to try is turn off Sky box, splitter and TV at the mains. Leave it a couple of minutes then power back up in the order TV, splitter then Sky box. If that fails to get any picture on the telly then you have to conclude the Sky box really does not want to play with the splitter.
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:31
chrisjr
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The OP wants to record Sky HD content to his computer using the Elgato box as he does for gaming content. Not display the sky box output on a TV.
I am fully aware of that. The purpose of taking the Elgato box out of the chain was to ascertain whether the splitter would work at all with the Sky box. After all if it won't even work feeding a TV it is unlikely to ever work feeding anything else.
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:46
nomad2king
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The HDMI splitter isn't designed to bypass HDCP, it's just that certain makes/models do. It may be that particular model has changed and that newer version can no longer do it.

I have an equivalent set-up of Virgin Media V+, different make/model splitter, and Hauppauge HD PVR2, and it all works. Although there was one occasion where it seemed to fail. It was just a matter of powering everything down(for a few mins) and making them "forget" what they had been attached to. No problems since.
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Old 27-03-2014, 00:21
webbie
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I don't know of any splitter that will remove the hdcp. And the specs for the one that you've bought says "hdcp passthrough" so this doesn't either. And as the elgato doesn't either (as it's designed for capturing gameplay, not movies) an alternative set up will probably be required. You will probably need a hdmi to component converter and use the a/v in connector instead of the hdmi in. These converters range from the expensive hdfury 2 or 3 to one like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HDMI-To-RG...item3a8ac90256
which will be ok for sky as that is 1080i. You could opt to pay more for a 1080p if required.
You will need the component adapter lead not the ps3 lead to use with the sky box. I presume the elgato came with it, or it's an optional extra:
http://www.elgato.com/en/online-store - scroll down to component adapter
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Old 27-03-2014, 02:10
nomad2king
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The make/model of splitter that I bought a couple of months ago, was bought via Amazon UK but came from the US with a power supply with a 2 pin US plug(which I knew about). Maybe that is the difference. The same item now says that the power supply has an UK plug and is £1 dearer. Could be a risk of a newer version that doesn't strip HDCP.

I found out about it because people were complaining about X Box One and game capture HDMI passthrough. This splitter was mentioned as a solution.
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Old 27-03-2014, 12:52
webbie
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Which splitter is that?
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Old 27-03-2014, 13:33
barracuda91
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The HDMI splitter isn't designed to bypass HDCP, it's just that certain makes/models do. It may be that particular model has changed and that newer version can no longer do it.

I have an equivalent set-up of Virgin Media V+, different make/model splitter, and Hauppauge HD PVR2, and it all works. Although there was one occasion where it seemed to fail. It was just a matter of powering everything down(for a few mins) and making them "forget" what they had been attached to. No problems since.
I do have the two-pin US plug, just to answer your other post, but I have to say that I could kiss you right now because your suggestion worked! I turned off everything at the plug and that seemed to reset the signal and now it picks up the Sky HD box. I'm currently recording The Ghost and Mrs. Muir off my planner so will see how that goes when it's done.

Can't thank you and everyone else enough for all your help, very much appreciate it!
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Old 27-03-2014, 15:13
nomad2king
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Which splitter is that?
I think the T&C of this sire don't allow that. Do what I did and research ie, Google, X Box and game capture device pass through problems. People want to use X Box or Playstation to view Online services such as NetFlix but have to fiddle around with the HDMI cables is they want to use a game capture device for just capturing gameplay. A seemingly legitimate use, but do the HDMI/HDCP rules allow it?
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Old 27-03-2014, 15:23
grahamlthompson
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. A seemingly legitimate use, but do the HDMI/HDCP rules allow it?
They don't need to. Most HD games consoles do not force HDCP protection on gaming output it's entirely legal to record the content. What is illegal is defeating the hdcp protection to produce perfect copies of drm protected content, in this case Sky broadcast content.

It's legal to record HD broadcast content that is transmitted without encryption. For example both Freeview and sateliite FTA HD content can be recorded using something like a HTPC with a suitable card which are freely available in the UK. Sky premium content requiring a smart card is encrypted before transmission.

Genuine Freesat+ and Freeview+ pvrs encrypt the unencrypted stream on copying to a hard disk. This is part of the Freesat/Freeview specification. It doesn't apply to generic fta kit.
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Old 27-03-2014, 15:30
chrisjr
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I think the T&C of this sire don't allow that. Do what I did and research ie, Google, X Box and game capture device pass through problems. People want to use X Box or Playstation to view Online services such as NetFlix but have to fiddle around with the HDMI cables is they want to use a game capture device for just capturing gameplay. A seemingly legitimate use, but do the HDMI/HDCP rules allow it?
If there is no HDCP at the source then presumably the copyright holders of the material are OK with you recording it.

What would be against the rules is to use some device that removes the HDCP protection. After all if it was legitimate to remove HDCP protection in order to record the video stream what would be the point of having HDCP in the first place?
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Old 27-03-2014, 16:04
grahamlthompson
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I think the posters who talk about HDCP stripping don't understand what HDCP does. It's not an anticopy signal imposed on the output of the box in some way that can be removed. Like Cinavia copy protection on blu-rays for instance.

It's a two way data interchange that involves a High Definition source interrogating a destination device as to what it's capabilities are. Unless the kit identifies itself to the source that it's a display device and not a recorder the sending end kit withholds the video producing the blue/green screen on the destination. The same as if the HDCP handshake failed in some way.
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Old 27-03-2014, 17:18
chrisjr
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I think the posters who talk about HDCP stripping don't understand what HDCP does. It's not an anticopy signal imposed on the output of the box in some way that can be removed. Like Cinavia copy protection on blu-rays for instance.

It's a two way data interchange that involves a High Definition source interrogating a destination device as to what it's capabilities are. Unless the kit identifies itself to the source that it's a display device and not a recorder the sending end kit withholds the video producing the blue/green screen on the destination. The same as if the HDCP handshake failed in some way.
I suspect the "strippers" are meant to act like Repeaters as defined in the HDCP specs

Repeater: A repeater accepts content, decrypts it, then re-encrypts and retransmits the data. It may perform some signal processing, such as upconverting video into a higher-resolution format, or splitting out the audio portion of the signal. Repeaters have both HDMI inputs and outputs. Examples include home theater audio-visual receivers that separate and amplify the audio signal, while re-transmitting the video for display on a TV. A repeater could also simply send the input data stream to multiple outputs for simultaneous display on several screens.
http://www.digital-cp.com/files/docu...red_070808.pdf

But instead of re-encrypting the data it passes it on "in the clear" as it were. So the source device sees the splitter as a legitimate destination device and sends it encrypted data. The splitter then decrypts the data and spits the decrypted version out of it's outputs
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Old 27-03-2014, 19:55
nomad2king
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They don't need to. Most HD games consoles do not force HDCP protection on gaming output it's entirely legal to record the content. What is illegal is defeating the hdcp protection to produce perfect copies of drm protected content, in this case Sky broadcast content.

It's legal to record HD broadcast content that is transmitted without encryption. For example both Freeview and sateliite FTA HD content can be recorded using something like a HTPC with a suitable card which are freely available in the UK. Sky premium content requiring a smart card is encrypted before transmission.

Genuine Freesat+ and Freeview+ pvrs encrypt the unencrypted stream on copying to a hard disk. This is part of the Freesat/Freeview specification. It doesn't apply to generic fta kit.
A game capture device will effectively have a splitter within it. One path goes to the capture side, whilst the other passes through to a TV. Ideally a protected signal, eg NetFlix/LoveFilm, would be passed through to the TV, but not allowed to pass through to the capture side. That would respect the protected sources but allow recording of non-protected sources, eg games. That set-up would allow viewing, but not recording of protected sources. The protected sources are not being passed through to the TV. It appears as if both outputs have to be non recording devices, eg 2 TVs/monitors, in order for anything to be sent.
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Old 28-03-2014, 16:09
barracuda91
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Son of a camel, the splitter stopped working with the Sky box again. I switched off everything at the plugs but it didn't work this time round. Tried it again but to no avail.
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