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  • TV Shows: UK
Jamaica Inn
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duncann
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Straker:
“Today programme on R4 featured the audio problems. Bizarrely they had John "Boycie" Challis on the line commenting on it along with ex-BBC honcho Lorraine Heggessy. As per usual nobody from the Beeb willing to come on but they read out a statement that blames it on a technical fault they were unable to correct during transmission. Someone who saw the ep at a preview said it was perfectly fine then.

Another spectacular own-goal from the BBC - You`re never more than a week away from one!!

It`ll be fascinating to compare the ratings for Monday and Tuesday`s ep.”

Yes, exactly!!!

I also heard this. Poor old Radio 4 talking about it as if it were breaking news, saying it was in today's papers, but of course it was on DS from one minute past nine on Monday evening!!! and all over Twitter and the internet yesterday.

What was hilarious was Radio 4 played a clip of Joss 'speaking' and it was 90% unintelligible except for a few words - but I had watched it with subtitles so I could hear that one phrase from memory.

Radio 4 put up two people who had nothing to do with the production and it wasn't clear that Heggessy had even seen Jamaica Inn, and certainly not that she had watched it on broadcast. She is one of those ex-BBC people in television who never actually watched the damn thing in her day and doesn't now. She fell back on the usual old claptrap that older people have difficulty hearing when there's underscoring and the usual stuff about flat screen TVs. Score: 0/10

Challis was much better and they should have quizzed him more - he and his wife gave up watching and switched off. I think that was the most typical reaction probably and I don't believe rising ratings of 6.1m. I think the way of measuring ratings is nowadays not very accurate. I am SURE the ratings dropped in the middle of this first episode. Anyway, he said he didn't like criticising actors and then gave examples of directors saying 'diction, darling, it's all about diction' (or words to that effect) so implicity he was saying it was at least partly in the performance.

I agree with Challis. On Monday I recorded Game of Thrones - now that is how to make a 'period' drama - it is threatening but never dark or dingy, it is full of accents and strange words but every golden syllable is clear and crisp and the sound effects add to the drama, they do not drown it out. When you think of the global success of GoT, other Anglo-American stuff, Downton Abbey etc. you realise the BBC is not the world powerhouse of period drama it claims to be.
anotherlongers
23-04-2014
Just had to come on here to praise the excellent acting of Jessica Brown-Findlay, surely a BAFTA is on her way. The strength of emotion she shows is truly amazing, rather reminiscent of Judy Dench in her prime. Britain has found a rare talent here.
lady_xanax
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Rowan Hedge:
“The truth is there is nothing tangible about her actual performance in the drama, she gives us nothing to debate so we therefore have to look at her and others and whether we feel they have the skills to perform in period set pieces. In particular FB brought nothing to the role, she lacks the rawness and passion to believably play the part of Mary, she is rather monotone.”

I do agree here. What annoyed me most though was her sour expression. Sure at the start she was in mourning so naturally she's going to look a bit down but she wanders around as if she's in a Hardy novel, when the smuggling is the far more interesting bit. She doesn't even have a story to speak of, apart from being outraged (I say rage, there is none) at everything.

I wouldn't even say that her depressed attitude is tragic;she just looks sour. You kind of want the baddies to win.
Straker
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“Certainly not the hit they were hoping for but I think biggest embarrassment should be awarded to The Musketeers which went from over 9 million viewers to under 4 million by the end. Admittedly it was over a ten week period but still a bigger failure as I'm sure they were hoping it would be a BBC fixture for a few years to come.”

Well, it`s a fixture for at least another year as they cannily got an early re-commission. Excellent show IMO and most critics agree that it deserved more eyes on it which doesn`t seem to be the case with reaction to Jamaica Inn.

What`s most embarrassing about this is a year ago Tony Hall specifically stated it was his intention to put a stop to these mumblecore dramas that seem to just be ego trips for Hollywood-fixated actors and directors. Doesn`t reflect well on that idiot Danny "Thank God for Call the Midwife" Cohen either.
duncann
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“Certainly not the hit they were hoping for but I think biggest embarrassment should be awarded to The Musketeers which went from over 9 million viewers to under 4 million by the end. Admittedly it was over a ten week period but still a bigger failure as I'm sure they were hoping it would be a BBC fixture for a few years to come.”

Musketeers was a very lightweight children's version which should have gone out in the Dr Who slot or on a weekday at 5.00pm. I reiterate my point I made above about the BBC not being the powerhouse of period drama it claims to be. I have recently watched period drama from ITV, Channel 4, HBO, other US channels, US-NZ etc co-pros, Australia, Spain and several other EU countries - and the lot of it wiped the floor with the lazy old BBC - terrific plotting, incredible production values, atmospheric visually, impeccable attention to detail, correct non-political casting, women behaving in correct period and not having the attributes of 21st century feminists - and, of course, audible dialogue. The BBC is falling behind. This is what it once did best and it's now repeatedly getting it wrong - Upstairs Downstairs versus Downton Abbey is just one example.
clara28
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Straker:
“Well, it`s a fixture for at least another year as they cannily got an early re-commission. Excellent show IMO and most critics agree that it deserved more eyes on it which doesn`t seem to be the case with reaction to Jamaica Inn.

What`s most embarrassing about this is a year ago Tony Hall specifically stated it was his intention to put a stop to these mumblecore dramas that seem to just be ego trips for Hollywood-fixated actors and directors. Doesn`t reflect well on that idiot Danny "Thank God for Call the Midwife" Cohen either.”

Yes The Musketeers was very luck with the early recommission but we'll have to agree to disagree re. it being a great show, I thought it was pretty weak and the viewing figures indicate that lots felt the same. But I understand it has a core audience that loved it and that's fair enough.

I do think Danny Cohen is a bit of an idiot and has made some suspect decisions, so we can agree on that much.
clara28
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by duncann:
“Musketeers was a very lightweight children's version which should have gone out in the Dr Who slot or on a weekday at 5.00pm. I reiterate my point I made above about the BBC not being the powerhouse of period drama it claims to be. I have recently watched period drama from ITV, Channel 4, HBO, other US channels, US-NZ etc co-pros, Australia, Spain and several other EU countries - and the lot of it wiped the floor with the lazy old BBC - terrific plotting, incredible production values, atmospheric visually, impeccable attention to detail, correct non-political casting, women behaving in correct period and not having the attributes of 21st century feminists - and, of course, audible dialogue. The BBC is falling behind. This is what it once did best and it's now repeatedly getting it wrong - Upstairs Downstairs versus Downton Abbey is just one example.”

I'm sure I'll be a lone voice but I really enjoyed the recent Upstairs Downstairs, thought it was head and shoulders above DA which is nothing more than a load of soapy old twaddle (please kill it off ITV). But yes, the BBC doesn't lead the way anymore in terms of TV drama.
clara28
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by duncann:
“Yes, exactly!!!

I agree with Challis. On Monday I recorded Game of Thrones - now that is how to make a 'period' drama - it is threatening but never dark or dingy, it is full of accents and strange words but every golden syllable is clear and crisp and the sound effects add to the drama, they do not drown it out. When you think of the global success of GoT, other Anglo-American stuff, Downton Abbey etc. you realise the BBC is not the world powerhouse of period drama it claims to be.”

I love GoT, I really do but I don't see what's wrong with dark and dingy. Life would have been very dark and dingy living on a moor in the 19th century. I think the mud factor is spot on in Jamaica Inn.

Again, I think Downton Abbey should be applauded for its success but there's little to praise artistically. Buckets of cash + weak and lazy scripts do not add up to world class television in my opinion.
J.R
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“This has to be a pretty gobsmacking instance, even by the BBC's standards.

NOBODY at Origin Pictures or BBC Drama spotted the performance issues when they watched rushes or edits.

Then those performance issues were passed off as technical problems - but only after social media generated so much heat about the show the BBC felt it had to say something.

Then they claimed they had fixed the 'problems' - when they clearly hadn't, because Sean Harris would have had to be called back to re-record all his dialogue.

Now the press have belatedly picked up on what people said on Twitter and the BBC is left with yet more egg on its face.

Can't wait to see this parodied in W1A.”



There seems to have been a whole mix of problems. The sound did improve the second day so they were obviously able to fix something. The first episode was also much better watched on iplayer - except Sean Harris who I still needed the subtitles for even yesterday, so not being able to understand him was not down to technical difficulties. Whichever, it should all have been sorted beforehand - not sure about the technical difficulties as I know nothing about these things but seems unusual with all the modern wizzygigs that it couldn't have been fixed during transmission?! it also seemed visually clearer yesterday as well. I expected it to be gloomy - the story needs that - but not so much you can't see what's happening.
I don't blame the author - a few things were left out as I have mentioned before that I think would have been better left in but that probably only bothers me because i know and like the original. It seems a bit stretched out too but I am sure she was given a remit by the BBC to fill.
I don't blame the actors either as they mostly do what the director tells them to do. Some are better than others obviously but that can just be down to casting. Sean Harris can't physically become 7 feet tall! I do wish he had found a way to speak that was clearer but that should have been picked up on by the director or production!
It's a shame really as it does have a lot going for it - including some good individual performances. The sets too if the gloom had just been toned down a bit. It mostly seems to be down to whoever decided it was ready to be viewed by millions!
lady_xanax
23-04-2014
Also, there's no sheep anywhere. Bodmin Moor, around the Cheesewring where I believe they visit in the final episode, is full of sheep.
Straker
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by lady_xanax:
“Also, there's no sheep anywhere. Bodmin Moor, around the Cheesewring where I believe they visit in the final episode, is full of sheep.”

Having seen W1A it would seem all the "sheep" are the yes-men behind the scenes who signed off on Jamaica Inn rather than, ironically, speaking up!
Kapellmeister
23-04-2014
The BBC's period drama efforts are crap and have been now for ages. What people want is stuff like Cranford, Little Dorrit and Bleak House (not to mention Pride and Prejudice), all of which the BBC did better than anyone could hope for. Now we just get empty, lifeless, soulless, contrived nonsense with no characters but lots of nice, arty photography.
allie4
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by anotherlongers:
“Just had to come on here to praise the excellent acting of Jessica Brown-Findlay, surely a BAFTA is on her way. The strength of emotion she shows is truly amazing, rather reminiscent of Judy Dench in her prime. Britain has found a rare talent here.”

WHAT? Did you ever actually see Judi Dench in her prime?
allie4
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“I love GoT, I really do but I don't see what's wrong with dark and dingy. Life would have been very dark and dingy living on a moor in the 19th century. I think the mud factor is spot on in Jamaica Inn.

Again, I think Downton Abbey should be applauded for its success but there's little to praise artistically. Buckets of cash + weak and lazy scripts do not add up to world class television in my opinion.”

Nor does this - and many other dramas the BBC has inflicted us with over the past few years.
Kapellmeister
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by clara28:
“I love GoT, I really do but I don't see what's wrong with dark and dingy. Life would have been very dark and dingy living on a moor in the 19th century. I think the mud factor is spot on in Jamaica Inn.

Again, I think Downton Abbey should be applauded for its success but there's little to praise artistically. Buckets of cash + weak and lazy scripts do not add up to world class television in my opinion.”

Agreed. The best that can be said for DA is that it's successful. It has no artistic/dramatic merit whatsoever.
lady_xanax
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“The BBC's period drama efforts are crap and have been now for ages. What people want is stuff like Cranford, Little Dorrit and Bleak House (not to mention Pride and Prejudice), all of which the BBC did better than anyone could hope for. Now we just get empty, lifeless, soulless, contrived nonsense with no characters but lots of nice, arty photography.”

Pride and Prejudice is the best period drama the BBC did. It focused on the characters and chemistry rather than the cinematography. Sure, they had some nice locations but it wasn't about the art direction. Now everything seems shot in the hope that it'll win awards for its aesthetics rather than the quality of the acting.

It's a knee-jerk reaction against the seventies/eighties style of period adaptation, which was very stagey. Yes, at times it made those productions a bit stale but the focus was on the story, trusting in the timeless qualities of the original source rather than trying to 'correct' it for modern times. Yes, Pride and Prejudice had a tongue-in-cheek wet shirt moment but Andrew Davies trusted in the fact that the novel is popular and well-loved. Now there seems to be a false sense of superiority, as if modern times can show what it was 'really' like in those times and show the multitude of sex scenes that all those period authors were simply dying to write, were it not for the sensibility of the times.

I also don't buy Jem as a petty thief/bad boy. He looks far too nicey-nice.
Servalan
23-04-2014
Muffle-gate rumbles on …

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...g-sound-levels

… and shows no sign of abating.

Great work, Origin and BBC Drama – you've managed to taint one of your own products without any outside help. 'Clueless' doesn't even begin to describe it.
Servalan
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Straker:
“Having seen W1A it would seem all the "sheep" are the yes-men behind the scenes who signed off on Jamaica Inn rather than, ironically, speaking up! ”

There are indeed people at the BBC who should take the blame - but it lies equally with Origin Pictures, who produced it for the BBC and should have been aware of all the problems from the off.

What a farce.
kat180
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Rowan Hedge:
“No what is disgusting is her acting skills, at least I'm good at what I do the same cannot be said for her.

Proffessionly trained my ass.”

If you want to criticise her acting skills go ahead.

But the majority of your comments have simply been vile, crude comments about the actresses attractiveness (according to you) and her sex life.
Virgil Tracy
23-04-2014
it's all on the same note - gloomy , miserable etc. there should be different types , I mean someone must be doing well , someone must be happy .
Kapellmeister
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by lady_xanax:
“Pride and Prejudice is the best period drama the BBC did. It focused on the characters and chemistry rather than the cinematography. Sure, they had some nice locations but it wasn't about the art direction. Now everything seems shot in the hope that it'll win awards for its aesthetics rather than the quality of the acting.

It's a knee-jerk reaction against the seventies/eighties style of period adaptation, which was very stagey. Yes, at times it made those productions a bit stale but the focus was on the story, trusting in the timeless qualities of the original source rather than trying to 'correct' it for modern times. Yes, Pride and Prejudice had a tongue-in-cheek wet shirt moment but Andrew Davies trusted in the fact that the novel is popular and well-loved. Now there seems to be a false sense of superiority, as if modern times can show what it was 'really' like in those times and show the multitude of sex scenes that all those period authors were simply dying to write, were it not for the sensibility of the times.

I also don't buy Jem as a petty thief/bad boy. He looks far too nicey-nice.”

Yes, it's a bit of a cliche to cite P&P as the high watermark of BBC period drama but I think it's probably true. It's stood up to the test of time exceptionally well. It was just perfectly cast, perfectly scripted, perfectly filmed and perfectly acted. There isn't one aspect that could be altered without diminishing the whole. It makes you realise how sterile, uninvolving and empty the BBC's recent efforts have been.
Kapellmeister
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“Muffle-gate rumbles on …

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...g-sound-levels

… and shows no sign of abating.

Great work, Origin and BBC Drama – you've managed to taint one of your own products without any outside help. 'Clueless' doesn't even begin to describe it.”

The more this story evolves the more convinced I am that it has nothing to do with a 'transmission error'. It was just shoddy work by the production team, perhaps even done intentionally to make it seem 'realistic'.
clara28
23-04-2014
Originally Posted by kat180:
“If you want to criticise her acting skills go ahead.

But the majority of your comments have simply been vile, crude comments about the actresses attractiveness (according to you) and her sex life.”

I agree completely. Would love the see the breathtakingly beautiful physiognomies of those insulting her.
valkay
23-04-2014
Even Ken Bruce on his Radio 2 show this morning was making jokes about the sound.
sheepiefarm
23-04-2014
This, from the telegraph, made me laugh



We were all looking forward to Jamaica Inn on Monday to see how Lady Sybil from Downton Abbey would fare now that she was reduced to lodging with a violent smuggler. But no one could make out a word she said, or the wicked Joss, either. Much of it seemed to be filmed in a large wardrobe, with acoustics to match. The actors’ mumbles had to compete with horses’ hooves, wind and smugglers being thrown around, which is seldom done quietly. In case too much still got through, a thick layer of music was poured on top. As a service to readers, a team of top forensic phonologists is piecing together the dialogue. It’s slow work, but here’s a beginning:


Mary (in shadow): Are you Joshua Reynolds, or is it dark in here? I’m not impatient. I’m Made in England.


Joss (behind a beam): Patience! Paedophile panel. See you down at Lidl. (Music swells. Blackout.)
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