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What do you see a cannon |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,454
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I see cannons! Cannons everywhere!
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sutton
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My own personal feelings on this are that anything that is distributed freely by the BBC is to be taken as the main continuity.
Anything one has to buy is superfluous, and to be treated as a fun addition, but not to be taken seriously. I like the books, and audios, but I don't feel I should have to shell out above and beyond the licence fee to fill missing blanks. Webisodes and extras are distributed on the official pages, so they are included in my continuity! |
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#28 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 334
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Quote:
My own personal feelings on this are that anything that is distributed freely by the BBC is to be taken as the main continuity.
Anything one has to buy is superfluous, and to be treated as a fun addition, but not to be taken seriously. I like the books, and audios, but I don't feel I should have to shell out above and beyond the licence fee to fill missing blanks. Webisodes and extras are distributed on the official pages, so they are included in my continuity! |
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#29 |
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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The Doctor Who "canon" consists of the TV series and nothing else, because there is no widespread consensus as to what else should be in it. The word "canon" implies universal agreement, which is why I consider the idea of a "personal canon" to be nonsensical. I'm hardly likely to disagree with myself about what Doctor Who consists of and what it doesn't. My opinion, though, is that if a character, setting or storyline forms a significant part of a TV serial, and isn't just fleetingly referred to as in the case of the 8th Doctor's BF companions in The Night of the Doctor, then he, she or it can be considered "canon." I suspect that the TV writers will never use anything from books, comics or audios in any significant way, so they'll never be canon.
The TV Series could only show so many days of the adventures of the Doctor. The audios were supposed to help fill in some of the blanks of those days. They tried to stay true to the Doctor and a continuation of the TV series. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edgware, Middlesex
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Quote:
I see cannons! Cannons everywhere!
Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd & thunder'd
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#31 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edgware, Middlesex
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Quote:
The Doctor Who "canon" consists of the TV series and nothing else, because there is no widespread consensus as to what else should be in it. The word "canon" implies universal agreement, which is why I consider the idea of a "personal canon" to be nonsensical. I'm hardly likely to disagree with myself about what Doctor Who consists of and what it doesn't. My opinion, though, is that if a character, setting or storyline forms a significant part of a TV serial, and isn't just fleetingly referred to as in the case of the 8th Doctor's BF companions in The Night of the Doctor, then he, she or it can be considered "canon." I suspect that the TV writers will never use anything from books, comics or audios in any significant way, so they'll never be canon.
![]() It can also be useful to know because sometimes the TV show may drop clues or hints about certain unresolved mysteries and if these hints might be affected by other things (such, as whether the Doctor is half-human, for example) we would better be able to draw valid conclusions from those hints if we knew whether these things, as raised in other forms of media, were Canon or not. Now it seems pretty certain that the TV Movie is Canon because Paul McGann as the 8th Doctor is Canon so, personally, I consider the half-human thing to be Canon even though I expect it to be too much of a hot potato to ever be explicitly referenced. I don't think the audios are Canon as such, only because I don't expect the production team to have an encylopedic knowledge of their continuity or want to shackle themselves too heavily in an attempt to conform to it but I suspect that a lot of the team are fond of the audios and have no particular agenda to contradict them. |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Cheers
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#33 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 7,096
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I know this 'half-human' thing is a bit of a controversy....I hated it at first too!!
But when you think about it - it could explain why he is so passionate about the planet Earth and he acts quite human (not pompous-like as Time-Lords are!). He is also quite vulnerable at times and shows emotions. And his regenerations are always erratic to say the least! Look at Time-lady Romana - she easily regenerated several times within minutes to find the right look! Just a thought.....
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#34 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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How could the BF audios, apart from McGann's be canon?
What I don't get is how Colin's Doctor had companions like Evelyn Smythe and Bernice Summerfield. There is no way he could have had those. They wouldn't have fitted in with the TV stories whatsoever. There couldn't have been any way for them to appear, cos of the way JNT did things back then. So, no. Apart from Paul McGann's era, which we haven't seen most of, the other DW audios can't be classed as canon. Just a bit of 'fun' for the fans to enjoy when the series isn't on telly. |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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How could the BF audios, apart from McGann's be canon?
Of course a lot of the audios are still with the original cast: there have been Peter Davison ones with Nyssa, Tegan and Turlough, for example and, recently Tom Baker, K9 and Romana. I don't think there is any discontinuity there. I also wouldn't just dismiss them as a bit of fun. They are excellent pieces of drama starring the same actors from the original show, continuing and developing the characters of both the Doctors and the Companions. For many years they were the only source of new Who and the original actors lent them the weight of authenticity. They fully deserve to be Canon, IMO. I don't expect them to be stated as such by the production team so I wouldn't consider them official Canon, necessarily, but they fit perfectly well into the chronology of the series as far as I'm concerned. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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I don't think the audios are Canon as such, only because I don't expect the production team to have an encylopedic knowledge of their continuity or want to shackle themselves too heavily in an attempt to conform to it but I suspect that a lot of the team are fond of the audios and have no particular agenda to contradict them.
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#37 |
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Thus us an interesting question as I really do feel Whovuans pick and chose.
Eg I'm happy to consider Lungbarrow canon but not too keen on the half human side of things. I don't consider Peter Cushing as canon. Also I consider the audios canon too... where I see fit! |
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#38 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
Thus us an interesting question as I really do feel Whovuans pick and chose.
Quote:
Eg I'm happy to consider Lungbarrow canon but not too keen on the half human side of things.
Now I don't, as Lungbarrow and the books leading up to it do some pretty major stuff with the back stories of the Doctor and Gallifrey, and if the production team regarded that as canon I would expect some acknowledgement or references. Instead I would say it's either been ignored or outright contradicted, e.g. by references to the Doctor and Master's fathers, mothers, children and grandchildren. I'm glad about that personally.
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#39 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 178
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My own personal canon includes everything: all the shows, all the audios, all the novels, all the short stories, all the comic books, even many of the unofficial productions. To me it doesn't matter if established facts and events in Doctor Who contradict each other, because alterations to the past are an inherent part of the plot and the Who universe. We've seen the past altered many times on the show and many, many times in tie-in media, sometimes with really dramatic results.
As 11 said in the Good Night minisode: "Everyone's got memories of a holiday they couldn't have been on or a party they never went to. Or met someone for the first time and felt like they've known them all their lives. Time is being rewritten all around us, every day. People thin ktheir memories are bad, but their memories are fine. The past really is like that." - I love that quote. I think it might actually be true. So, it's all a matter of what you choose to watch, read or listen to. Personally, I'm a big fan of the novels and audios but don't much bother with the comic books and short stories. That's simply what I prefer to spend my time on, rather than anything to do with what I view as canon. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,991
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Except that the McGann Movie isn't an episode of the TV Series and neither are the webisodes but I would hazard a guess that the current production team consider them canon (half-human Doctors, not withstanding
)Plus the Sarah Jane Adventures, K9 & Company and Torchwood are probably considered Canon. I think there are two types of Canon. Canon to the production team (which is all the classic and new Doctor Who episodes along with the webisodes, the McGann Movie and the spin-offs) and then there's the rest which is too varied and contradictory to all belong to the same Canon but which is fair game for anyone who wants to view them as such. Personally I view the Big Finish audios as Canon but not the books since I've heard all the audios and read none of the books! It was nice to hear a link to the audios in Night of the Doctor but I wouldn't read it as confirmation that all the audios are now the first type of Canon. That would just be wishful thinking on my part ![]() How that big massive thing sits going through the centre of the earth whilst there also should be the Racnoss there.. |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,231
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My position is basically that if it was broadcast in a way that forms part of the TV timeline - i.e., part of a series, rather than a skit or whatever - it happened to the Doctor. If it wasn't, it only might have happened to the Doctor.
More specifically, I'd say the bits outside the main show are the stories people tell about him. They might be based on truth, they might be perfect accounts, they might be tripe - but there's this bloke in a bar in Starfall swears blind it's true... |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Regarding Torchwood, I'm not sure if 'Miracle day' fits in well with the established history of Dr Who... I'm pretty sure people like Amy/Rory etc would have remember that time when no-one died..
How that big massive thing sits going through the centre of the earth whilst there also should be the Racnoss there.. I suppose if Miracle Day was not under the auspices of the BBC then that could be a reason for not treating it as Canon but, if it was, then I think we should assume it's official canon even if there are continuity issues. |
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#43 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 334
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I am quite happy to remove Miracle Day from my personal canon as I really disliked it but, to be fair, continuity problems are not necessarily a reason to remove something from Canon (there are plenty of continuity problems throughout just the standard Classic series!).
I suppose if Miracle Day was not under the auspices of the BBC then that could be a reason for not treating it as Canon but, if it was, then I think we should assume it's official canon even if there are continuity issues. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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I
Now I don't, as Lungbarrow and the books leading up to it do some pretty major stuff with the back stories of the Doctor and Gallifrey, and if the production team regarded that as canon I would expect some acknowledgement or references. Instead I would say it's either been ignored or outright contradicted, e.g. by references to the Doctor and Master's fathers, mothers, children and grandchildren. I'm glad about that personally. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by Simon_Foston I Now I don't, as Lungbarrow and the books leading up to it do some pretty major stuff with the back stories of the Doctor and Gallifrey, and if the production team regarded that as canon I would expect some acknowledgement or references. Instead I would say it's either been ignored or outright contradicted, e.g. by references to the Doctor and Master's fathers, mothers, children and grandchildren. I'm glad about that personally. Quote:
well they might have done if the show wasn't axed.. but it was and I know that's what counts (and what you'll righty counter with)
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#46 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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I don't care for it either as I think it's yet another example of RTD's over-reliance on mega scale paranormal crises, any one of which would surely have such repercussions that it would render 21st Century Earth totally unrecognizable as a story setting. I think it is unfortunately part of the canon (i.e. what TV writers might include in their scripts IMO) but I regard it as something that fell through the cracks in the universe and never re-occurred when the Doctor re-booted everything. In other words it happened and then it didn't.
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#47 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd & thunder'd ![]()
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#48 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,991
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Yes, that Universe reboot is the ultimate get out of jail free card when it comes to continuity and unwriting stuff you don't like
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