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Sgt Alexander Blackman
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woodbush
01-04-2014
I know I could have bumped the old thread.

He was the guy who shot dead a wounded and captured insurgent. He received a sentence of 10 years. He has now launched an appeal, I wonder what he will be appealing on, that's right ,he "bitterly regrets" the incident.

I'll be surprised that many killers don't "bitterly regret" what they have done after they were caught.

What are your thoughts on the appeal, should he be released?

I think he got off lightly, life sentence of only 10 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-26827027
NX-74205
01-04-2014
The guy should've got a bloody medal, not a prison sentence.
JB3
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by NX-74205:
“The guy should've got a bloody medal, not a prison sentence.”

A medal for killing an injured captive?

How brave.
RandomSally
01-04-2014
I see no grounds for an appeal either Woodbush. I think he's incredibly lucky he didn't get life.
pjw1985
01-04-2014
A 10 year tariff is very lenient for a life sentence tbh. He did kill someone so i think he got off quite lightly.
kippeh
01-04-2014
I think he was very unfortunate.
ba_baracus
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by JB3:
“A medal for killing an injured captive?

How brave.”

Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.
jackol
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by ba_baracus:
“Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.”

I have and you do not shoot a wounded enemy.
kippeh
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by jackol:
“I have and you do not shoot a wounded enemy...”

...on camera.
Axtol
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by ba_baracus:
“Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.”

The impression I get from reading about him on the bbc is that he was fully aware the insurgent was not a threat but still shot and killed him and then attempted to prevent it coming to light by encouraging others not to report it. If that's true then he shouldn't be released but maybe it should be re examined whether it was murder or manslaughter. I haven't been in a war situation either but I know that it puts immense levels of strain on someone and it would be impossible for me to comprehend without experiencing it myself although I think that can only go so far in excusing what happened. He could argue diminished responsibility from the mental strains he had been under.
Trsvis_Bickle
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by ba_baracus:
“Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.”

We did this to death at the time (as it were).

Blackman and his colleagues weren't in the stress and confusion of battle. This wasn't the fight-through, where the shooting of a surrendering enemy combatant might be justified. The engagement was over and the Marines were fully in control of the battle space. The prisoner in question was clearly no threat to them.

Anyone who knows my posts on here knows that I'm a big supporter of our armed forces but there's simply no justification for acts like this. Quite apart from the moral issue, if your troops get a reputation for executing prisoners out of hand, your enemy is more likely to fight to the death. This makes no sense militarily and endangers the lives of your comrades.

The reason that we admire our armed forces is partly because we hold them to high moral standards, even under the pressure of operations. Whenever some copy-and-paste teenage 'pacifist' comes on here with their daft rhetoric about 'trained killers' they can be easily refuted.

Blackman was lucky to get away with 10 years.
scousemick
01-04-2014
Cards on the table I do feel a degree of sympathy for the individual involved , it's not a high street in Watford it's taken place in the enviroment of Helmand province in the kind of situation that thankfully the vast majority of the population will never encounter nor possibly imagine how it feels.

All that said he executes a bloke on camera and makes a comment about breaking the geneva convention , there is pretty no other option than a conviction . It seems he's been given a sentence at the lower end of the guidelines , which I personally think is right, and I also admire the way the Corps has , without seeking to diminish what's happened , generally been fairly supportive to him.

I just don't see any other option than the conviction that happened to be honest although as I say I think the minimum tariff would also seem right in my opinion just given the circumstances .
AOTB
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by ba_baracus:
“Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.”

This just isn't true. If people are only allowed to comment on things tht they have directly experienced then you close the door to a vast array of topics people can form more than reasonable reasonable opinions on.
cessna
01-04-2014
Just for the record - it was common practice during WW2 for GIs to shoot dead surrendering Japs who were infamous for their cruel barbaric treatment meted out to
surrendered GIs and British POWs . It was also surprising to learn that British troops during WW1 would sometimes shoot dead captured German troops, with the full knowledge and approval of their officers.
kippeh
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by cessna:
“Just for the record - it was common practice during WW2 for GIs to shoot dead surrendering Japs who were infamous for their cruel barbaric treatment meted out to
surrendered GIs and British POWs . It was also surprising to learn that British troops during WW1 would sometimes shoot dead captured German troops, with the full knowledge and approval of their officers.”

I imagine it goes on in Afghanistan, and went on in Iraq. Just quietly. And off-camera.
AOTB
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by cessna:
“Just for the record - it was common practice during WW2 for GIs to shoot dead surrendering Japs who were infamous for their cruel barbaric treatment meted out to
surrendered GIs and British POWs . It was also surprising to learn that British troops during WW1 would sometimes shoot dead captured German troops, with the full knowledge and approval of their officers.”

We also used to live in caves and club women over the head before dragging them off for a bit of non consensual rumpy puppy.

In the modern era we know this is wrong do we not...? A bit like murdering captured enemy combatants...
cessna
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by AOTB:
“We also used to live in caves and club women over the head before dragging them off for a bit of non consensual rumpy puppy.

In the modern era we know this is wrong do we not...? A bit like murdering captured enemy combatants...”

>>>>>

I make no judgement regarding the Sgt Blackman and what horrors he may have witnessed from the enemy. Having thankfully not served in the Afghan hell hole. I did my time in SE Asia where in a relatively 'modern era' it is on record that a Jap officer having attended the beheading of an allied POW then dipped his hand inside the body to retrieve and eat a body part, regarded as some kind of medical cure. I doubt many would have objected had this Jap been shot dead..
The Finisher
01-04-2014
Soldiering can be a nasty business. Once you switch 'them' on it can be very difficult to switch 'them' off again, and shit happens unfortunately. What happens in vegas should stay in vegas for the most part imo.
woodbush
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by NX-74205:
“The guy should've got a bloody medal, not a prison sentence.”

For killing an unarmed captured enemy
Elyan
01-04-2014
I think the sentence is fair.

If islamic insurgents in Afghanistan want to behave like savages that's their business. Soldiers serving in Her Majesty's armed forces have rules and responsibilities to follow. Those do not include murdering an enemy they may capture whenever they feel like it. We are not the Gestapo.
Evo102
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by Trsvis_Bickle:
“We did this to death at the time (as it were).

Blackman and his colleagues weren't in the stress and confusion of battle. This wasn't the fight-through, where the shooting of a surrendering enemy combatant might be justified. The engagement was over and the Marines were fully in control of the battle space. The prisoner in question was clearly no threat to them.

Anyone who knows my posts on here knows that I'm a big supporter of our armed forces but there's simply no justification for acts like this. Quite apart from the moral issue, if your troops get a reputation for executing prisoners out of hand, your enemy is more likely to fight to the death. This makes no sense militarily and endangers the lives of your comrades.

The reason that we admire our armed forces is partly because we hold them to high moral standards, even under the pressure of operations. Whenever some copy-and-paste teenage 'pacifist' comes on here with their daft rhetoric about 'trained killers' they can be easily refuted.

Blackman was lucky to get away with 10 years.”

And of of course there is the fact that the insurgent was dragged to cover to prevent the US copter, that was doing BDA, from seeing what they were doing.

His two colleagues were lucky not to have also faced a murder charge under the doctrine of Joint Enterprise.
James Frederick
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“And of of course there is the fact that the insurgent was dragged to cover to prevent the US copter, that was doing BDA, from seeing what they were doing.

His two colleagues were lucky not to have also faced a murder charge under the doctrine of Joint Enterprise.”

Exactly things like that show he didn't snap in the heat of the moment this was something planned out so he knew exactly what he was doing.

Plus for the ones saying we don't understand wasn't he convinced in a military court so the ones who sentenced him have also had battle/war experience.
StargateNerd_24
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by cessna:
“Just for the record - it was common practice during WW2 for GIs to shoot dead surrendering Japs who were infamous for their cruel barbaric treatment meted out to
surrendered GIs and British POWs . It was also surprising to learn that British troops during WW1 would sometimes shoot dead captured German troops, with the full knowledge and approval of their officers.”

A) That doesn't make it right
B) The Japanese had a habit of pretending to surrender and then blowing themselves up when getting captured (which wasn't the case here) so you couldn't afford to be as careful.
C) The stresses were probably much worse in the Pacific in WWII than in Afghanistan.
JB3
01-04-2014
Originally Posted by ba_baracus:
“Unless you have experienced the stresses of a war situation (I haven't), then I don't think you are in a position to make such sarcastic remarks.”

I think I am.
proviso
01-04-2014
This argument that those of us who haven't served in the military are in no position to judge infuriates the hell out of me.

It's like when people say that unless you're a woman you're not allowed a view on abortion.

This is a liberal democracy. Those with particular expertise or experience of certain things should certainly be listened to, but in the end the decision on whether certain behaviour is permitted in our society is one for us all to make.

Blackman should be grateful for his far too lenient sentence.
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