Sgt Alexander Blackman

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johnF1971

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I support anybody's right to exhaust all legal channels through the courts. I see all this "Yeah, but what if.....?" stuff as a sidestep, as it ignores the facts in question and tries to make a case based on a hypothetical scenario.”

So you'd support Adebolajo's right to appeal and be happy for him to get a reduced sentence if a court decided he had diminished responsibility?

Fair enough I suppose, you're entitled to your view. Personally I think Adebolajo should spend the rest of his life behind bars but that's just my opinion.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by johnF1971:
“The victim was unarmed and the soldiers were not being confronted by any other armed enemy at the time. Blackman actually ordered the victim to be moved out of site of the BRITISH surveillance because he knew that what he was going to do was wrong!

It was quite clearly a cold-blooded, premeditated execution. It is perhaps what you might expect from a Taliban or ISIS fighter but not a member of the British armed forces. We're supposed to be better than that, which is why when the act was discovered he was properly prosecuted for it. People need to stop making excuses for Blackwell otherwise we end up looking as bad as the Taliban or ISIS themselves.”

Well, I'm sure he now wishes he had let the guy just bleed out from the gaping apache cannon wounds he was peppered with.

blueblade

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Well, I'm sure he now wishes he had let the guy just bleed out from the gaping apache cannon wounds he was peppered with.”

His men were administering first aid and he ordered them to stop.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by johnF1971:
“So you'd support Adebolajo's right to appeal and be happy for him to get a reduced sentence if a court decided he had diminished responsibility?

Fair enough I suppose, you're entitled to your view. Personally I think Adebolajo should spend the rest of his life behind bars but that's just my opinion.”

What is this? Dream up a hypothetical scenario, lead somebody with it, draw a conclusion and then pat yourself on the back?

I don't know what I would do, because it's currently a fantasy. I prefer to just stick with the facts of this particular case. Cheers.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by blueblade:
“His men were administering first aid and he ordered them to stop.”

Yes I know.

lockes no 1 fan

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Well, I'm sure he now wishes he had let the guy just bleed out from the gaping apache cannon wounds he was peppered with.”

you make it sound like he did the fella a favour, or is that what you actually believe?

blueblade

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Yes I know.”

So are you saying you'd have been happy with Blackman ordering them to stop first aid and just leaving him to die?

I don't get your logic. He'd have been in trouble for that as well.

sorcha_healy27

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by GusGus:
“They are not, war is war
We should applaud our servicemen for protecting our freedom and way of life”

Actually I'll think you'll find that there's a massive difference between killing someone in armed combat and deliberately shooting an unarmed man.

blueblade

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Actually I'll think you'll find that there's a massive difference between killing someone in armed combat and deliberately shooting an unarmed man.”

There is - in fact the allies tried German SS officers for ordering their men to kill allied prisoners. War crimes. That was before the Geneva Convention was even signed.

sorcha_healy27

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by blueblade:
“There is - in fact the allies tried German SS officers for ordering their men to kill allied prisoners. War crimes. That was before the Geneva Convention was even signed.”

Yeah exactly blueblade.

The Germans were guilty of war crimes aswell as indescribably horrific crimes against humanity.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by lockes no 1 fan:
“you make it sound like he did the fella a favour, or is that what you actually believe?”

Originally Posted by blueblade:
“So are you saying you'd have been happy with Blackman ordering them to stop first aid and just leaving him to die?

I don't get your logic. He'd have been in trouble for that as well.”

I think that the guy was beyond saving, and was in fact dying, riddled with apache gunship fire. I'm not saying that I believe he did him a favour whatsoever, just that I'm sure with hindsight he wishes he hadn't done what he did and instead let the insurgent die of the injuries he already had.

Granny McSmith

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I think that the guy was beyond saving, and was in fact dying, riddled with apache gunship fire. I'm not saying that I believe he did him a favour whatsoever, just that I'm sure with hindsight he wishes he hadn't done what he did and instead let the insurgent die of the injuries he already had.”

Or said what he said - at least not on camera.

sorcha_healy27

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I think that the guy was beyond saving, and was in fact dying, riddled with apache gunship fire. I'm not saying that I believe he did him a favour whatsoever, just that I'm sure with hindsight he wishes he hadn't done what he did and instead let the insurgent die of the injuries he already had.”

He's only sorry he was stupid enough to get caught on camera.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“He's only sorry he was stupid enough to get caught on camera.”

Possibly. I'm pretty sure this incident isn't unique.

sorcha_healy27

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Possibly. I'm pretty sure this incident isn't unique.”

Whether it's unique or not is irrelevant. He was caught on camera murdering someone in cold blood.

If others are found to have committed the same crimes they should all face charges.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Whether it's unique or not is irrelevant. He was caught on camera murdering someone in cold blood.

If others are found to have committed the same crimes they should all face charges.”

I think he will win his appeal.

blueblade

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I think that the guy was beyond saving, and was in fact dying, riddled with apache gunship fire. I'm not saying that I believe he did him a favour whatsoever, just that I'm sure with hindsight he wishes he hadn't done what he did and instead let the insurgent die of the injuries he already had.”

You think or you know?

That's what Blackman said as part of his array of excuses, but he didn't suggest on camera that it was a mercy killing. In the event we'll never know.

blueblade

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“He's only sorry he was stupid enough to get caught on camera.”

Yes, and reading that military forum earlier, it appears the only reason he was found out, is because they were checking all the stuff on laptops and so on, because somebody was thought to have downloaded child porn. Then obviously the murder Blackman committed was brought to light in the process of looking for that.

In life generally, it's amazing what else turns up when you're looking for some specific thing.

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by blueblade:
“You think or you know?

That's what Blackman said as part of his array of excuses, but he didn't suggest on camera that it was a mercy killing. In the event we'll never know.”

From all articles I have read, commonly they often use the term "dying" to describe the insurgent. I wouldn't support a mercy killing either, but if his mental state at the time is considered sufficient mitigation to quash the conviction, so be it.

sorcha_healy27

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“From all articles I have read, commonly they often use the term "dying" to describe the insurgent. I wouldn't support a mercy killing either, but if his mental state at the time is considered sufficient mitigation to quash the conviction, so be it.”

I assume you'll accept the ruling if his conviction is upheld then?

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“I assume you'll accept the ruling if his conviction is upheld then?”

Of course.

anne_666

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by Ashenden:
“The views of the Sgt Blackman case by many service folk who are required to abide by these rules might come as a surprise to some;

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/th...-rally.245904/”

Thank you, I'm familiar with the site and that there's unsurprisingly little sympathy for him amongst the armed forces.
Another of the reasons #1448

Quote:
“The point many people seem to have forgotten is that in his actions Blackman made his troops accomplices to his crime.
As a leader, it was his role to look after the interests of his men, not to incriminate them.
If the CM hadn't bent over backwards to limit the case to Blackman, you could have seen his whole det go down for life under "joint enterprise".”

MC_Satan

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by eggchen:
“From all articles I have read, commonly they often use the term "dying" to describe the insurgent. I wouldn't support a mercy killing either, but if his mental state at the time is considered sufficient mitigation to quash the conviction, so be it.”

It shouldn't work. He may have had PTSD or another disorder. Unfortunately for him the words he used indicate that he knew whathe subsequently did was wrong. Therefore he fails the test on that basis. I hope he loses his appeal.

GusGus

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Actually I'll think you'll find that there's a massive difference between killing someone in armed combat and deliberately shooting an unarmed man.”

And raining bombs down on innocent civilians as we did in WW2?
War is war, people get killed
Corbyn and pacifists believe that talking is better, Chamberlain tried that before Churchill and brave service personnel sorted the chief villain out.
Same experiences ever since with differing enemies, thankfully our freedom is due to the brave actions of those who defend us

eggchen

22-12-2016

Originally Posted by MC_Satan:
“It shouldn't work. He may have had PTSD or another disorder. Unfortunately for him the words he used indicate that he knew whathe subsequently did was wrong. Therefore he fails the test on that basis. I hope he loses his appeal.”

A defendant does not have to rely solely on incapacity to know right from wrong to have a defence of diminished responsibility.

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