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Sgt Alexander Blackman |
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#251 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
Do you also doubt the medical findings of two qualified psychiatrists then?
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#252 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,550
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aka you know bloody full well you wouldn't.
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#253 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
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I'm not playing the "Yeah but, what if....?" game. I'd rather just concentrate on the facts of this one if that's okay?
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#254 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,550
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It's OK, but it's obviously convenient from your standpoint not to confront the hypothetical and address it.
However, hypothesising on things like this is often pointless. |
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#255 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
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It's convenient from yours to try and introduce it.
However, hypothesising on things like this is often pointless. |
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#256 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,550
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Well I'm hardly the only one to do so, and they are highly pertinent points, being the converse of the situation you are defending.
I try to take each at its own merit, otherwise you just get dragged into pointless slanging matches and point scoring over things that aren't even real, but just some hypothesis that somebody has constructed to try and win an argument. It is best to try and avoid them and just focus on the case in hand. |
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#257 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68,941
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And raining bombs down on innocent civilians as we did in WW2?
War is war, people get killed Corbyn and pacifists believe that talking is better, Chamberlain tried that before Churchill and brave service personnel sorted the chief villain out. Same experiences ever since with differing enemies, thankfully our freedom is due to the brave actions of those who defend us |
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#258 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
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But I don't particularly subscribe to the idea that if I have an opinion on one point of view, it must follow that I thus automatically have the same opinion about a hypothetical inverse of that.
I try to take each at its own merit, otherwise you just get dragged into pointless slanging matches and point scoring over things that aren't even real, but just some hypothesis that somebody has constructed to try and win an argument. It is best to try and avoid them and just focus on the case in hand. Anyway, I'm going to leave it there. I think we've all made some good points in a passionate and excellent debate, held in a good spirit. Not much more to be said without repeating ourselves. Thanks, and no doubt we will re-convene when the appeal verdict is delivered. That's not to say others won't further contribute now, but I'll leave it there until the verdict. |
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#259 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,499
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how was this recorded anyway? do they have to record everything they say...im sure there are loads of these incidents
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#260 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,899
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how was this recorded anyway? do they have to record everything they say...
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I'm sure there are loads of these incidents
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#261 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,692
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He could argue diminished responsibility from the mental strains he had been under.
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#262 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,525
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No doubt there are. |
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#263 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,899
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It's rare. That's why it's such a big thing. Contrary to the commonly held view of the DS snowflakes people don't join up to commit murder, legalised or otherwise.
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#264 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,525
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Quote:
But we have no way of knowing how rare it is, this was such a big thing because it was caught on camera and the footage ended up in the hands of the police. Whether it would ever have seen the light of day if the military police had discovered it is another question of course.
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#265 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,899
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Quote:
He was reported by his mates, who were disgusted. That's how it is, that's why it's rare.
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Royal Military Police arrested the three marines in October 2012 after video footage was found on a serviceman's laptop by civilian police in the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24870699As for cutting a murderer some slack. |
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#266 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,525
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No, the footage was found by civilian police according to this report while investigating an unrelated matter
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24870699 As for cutting a murderer some slack. |
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#267 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,109
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So why did they look at his laptop, eh? How did they have possession? Not just chance. When did the cops look at your laptop? They've never looked at mine.
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#268 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,899
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So why did they look at his laptop, eh? How did they have possession? Not just chance. When did the cops look at your laptop? They've never looked at mine.
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The emergence of the video clips two years after the incident came about through the most bizarre of circumstances. http://www.somersetcountygazette.co....lefield_enemy/Blackman had always told his men not to wear helmet cameras, but a new member of the troop ignored the rule and recorded what was a ferocious firefight. He actually deleted the fifth clip [the murder] and shared the other four [of the fire fight] with his fellow Commandos - and that would have been the end of the matter but for one of the Marines getting caught up in a messy divorce a year after they returned to the UK. His wife reported him to police over some unrelated material on his laptop, which was seized, leading to the discovery of the four clips, while the fifth, which was to secure Blackman's conviction, was retrieved at a later date. Happy now? Quote:
And I'm not talking about slack for Blackman, but for the other guys, all of them, who you've accused of murders unknown. That includes me, you should know. I've done the job too. Never shot anyone in cold blood though, nor did anyone I saw.
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#269 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,167
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War is war. After some of the things he has witnessed I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped, and hand on heart here. I honestly do not know how I would react myself if a wounded enemy fighter was at my feet, after watching him kill my friends.
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#270 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,109
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Quote:
War is war. After some of the things he has witnessed I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped, and hand on heart here. I honestly do not know how I would react myself if a wounded enemy fighter was at my feet, after watching him kill my friends.
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#271 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,167
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Quote:
Where does it say that the Blackman had previously witnessed the victim kill Blackman's friends?
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#272 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,333
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Quote:
War is war. After some of the things he has witnessed I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped, and hand on heart here. I honestly do not know how I would react myself if a wounded enemy fighter was at my feet, after watching him kill my friends.
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#273 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,109
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Quote:
I was talking generally, about people he would have lost while at war from within his unit. I'm sure you know that however and are just either baiting for being argumentative for the sake of it.
If he LITERALLY HAD just witnessed the same Afghan kill one of his friends then I could kind of understand it. It would still be wrong under the Geneva convention I guess, but as a human being I could empathise with him. That's not what happened though so people need to stop making stuff up to justify what was a cold-blooded execution by a man who was fully aware of what he was doing. To repeat the point that's been made before, if it was the other way round - i.e. an Afghan troop executing an unarmed, wounded British soldier - would you honestly be making the same excuses about war being war and us not understanding what its like to be an Afghan fighter in that situation? Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense that a lot of the support for Sgt Blackman such as we've seen in the Daily Mail and on here is purely down to blind patriotism and if it was the other way round many peoples reaction's would be completely the opposite. |
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#274 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 6,354
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Quote:
No I wasn't baiting. I genuinely thought there might have been part of the story I wasn't aware of?
If he LITERALLY HAD just witnessed the same Afghan kill one of his friends then I could kind of understand it. It would still be wrong under the Geneva convention I guess, but as a human being I could empathise with him. That's not what happened though so people need to stop making stuff up to justify what was a cold-blooded execution by a man who was fully aware of what he was doing. To repeat the point that's been made before, if it was the other way round - i.e. an Afghan troop executing an unarmed, wounded British soldier - would you honestly be making the same excuses about war being war and us not understanding what its like to be an Afghan fighter in that situation? Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense that a lot of the support for Sgt Blackman such as we've seen in the Daily Mail and on here is purely down to blind patriotism and if it was the other way round many peoples reaction's would be completely the opposite. |
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#275 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,116
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Quote:
What do you expect? ISIS, Al Qaida and many other islamic terror groups are our enemies. They have declared war on us. Are you not patriotic? Do you not support our soldiers? Why should you care what happens to our sworn enemies at war who would kill our soldiers and us given the chance? It's not a sport where rules have to be obeyed for a fair fight. It's war and war is not pretty. Like I already said unless you've been in the boots of a soldier you don't know what you might do. I support our troops without question and I would love to see the likes of ISIS and Al Qaida wiped off the face of the earth. I say kill as many as we can.
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