Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Usually when you don't agree with their findings, eh?”
“Usually when you don't agree with their findings, eh?”
No, but I'm amused by your projection approach when all else fails
Sgt Alexander Blackman
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Originally Posted by blueblade:
“It's not ridiculous at all. The net effect of an acquittal based on so called psychological evidence, will be endorsement of cold blooded murder. No matter how many ways you argue it, that will be the case.”
“It's not ridiculous at all. The net effect of an acquittal based on so called psychological evidence, will be endorsement of cold blooded murder. No matter how many ways you argue it, that will be the case.”
How can an acquittal of murder be an endorsement of murder? If the conviction is quashed then he won't be deemed to have murdered anybody.
Murder is not just the simple actuality of "one person killing another" like some people seem to believe, but a criminal offence based on the criteria that defines the offence.
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“No, but I'm amused by your projection approach when all else fails”
“No, but I'm amused by your projection approach when all else fails
”
What has failed on my part? I'm pointing out the facts as they are, whilst it is people like yourself making unsubstantiated claims of bias and subterfuge.
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“How can an acquittal of murder be an endorsement of murder? If the conviction is quashed then he won't be deemed to have murdered anybody.
Murder is not just the simple actuality of "one person killing another" like some people seem to believe, but a criminal offence based on the criteria that defines the offence.”
“How can an acquittal of murder be an endorsement of murder? If the conviction is quashed then he won't be deemed to have murdered anybody.
Murder is not just the simple actuality of "one person killing another" like some people seem to believe, but a criminal offence based on the criteria that defines the offence.”
Because of what he said and did, all recorded for the world to hear.
If that wasn't cold blooded murder, I'm a Dutchman.
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Then they are endorsing cold blooded, planned and pre meditated murder.
It will be a very sad day for British Justice if they get their way.”
“Then they are endorsing cold blooded, planned and pre meditated murder.
It will be a very sad day for British Justice if they get their way.”
Couldn't agree more. I felt embarrassed and worried at the news reports where fellow servicemen were proudly supporting his attempt at release. What does this say about our country?
Originally Posted by EvieJ:
“Couldn't agree more. I felt embarrassed and worried at the news reports where fellow servicemen were proudly supporting his attempt at release. What does this say about our country?”
“Couldn't agree more. I felt embarrassed and worried at the news reports where fellow servicemen were proudly supporting his attempt at release. What does this say about our country?”
Many of them, including the commander of 45 Commando Colonel Oliver Lee who resigned in protest at his treatment, feel that he has been hung out to dry.
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Because of what he said and did, all recorded for the world to hear.
If that wasn't cold blooded murder, I'm a Dutchman.”
“Because of what he said and did, all recorded for the world to hear.
If that wasn't cold blooded murder, I'm a Dutchman.”
It's not going in is it?
Why aren't you getting that the CCRCs referral to appeal is based on the fact that Blackman's actions and words at the time were possibly down to him malfunctioning due to a recognised mental or psychological condition, and that is what the CCRC believe the court of appeal should look at?
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I assume the prosecution were always at liberty to conduct their own psychiatric evaluation of Blackman.”
“I assume the prosecution were always at liberty to conduct their own psychiatric evaluation of Blackman.”
eh? what type of answer is that
Originally Posted by lockes no 1 fan:
“eh? what type of answer is that”
“eh? what type of answer is that”
I'll tell you what, here's Professor Neil Greenberg's profile. Decide for yourself as to his bias or credentials.
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/kcmhr/admmh/greenberg-profile.aspx
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Many of them, including the commander of 45 Commando Colonel Oliver Lee who resigned in protest at his treatment, feel that he has been hung out to dry.”
“Many of them, including the commander of 45 Commando Colonel Oliver Lee who resigned in protest at his treatment, feel that he has been hung out to dry.”
Well they are right in one respect - his comrades should also be serving time, either for conspiracy or for murder under the joint enterprise doctrine.
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“Well they are right in one respect - his comrades should also be serving time, either for conspiracy or for murder under the joint enterprise doctrine.”
“Well they are right in one respect - his comrades should also be serving time, either for conspiracy or for murder under the joint enterprise doctrine.”
The court martial disagreed with you on that one unfortunately.
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“It's not going in is it?
Why aren't you getting that the CCRCs referral to appeal is based on the fact that Blackman's actions and words at the time were possibly down to him malfunctioning due to a recognised mental or psychological condition, and that is what the CCRC believe the court of appeal should look at?”
“It's not going in is it?
Why aren't you getting that the CCRCs referral to appeal is based on the fact that Blackman's actions and words at the time were possibly down to him malfunctioning due to a recognised mental or psychological condition, and that is what the CCRC believe the court of appeal should look at?”
You could say that any murderer is mentally "malfunctioning". It's grossly abnormal behaviour. That doesn't mean they're not guilty of murder.
I personally don't give a flying f*** what some shrinks have retrospectively dreamt up to defend this guy. As far as I'm concerned he's a cold blooded murderer who has let down his colleagues and his country. I sincerely hope he doesn't get off.
If he does get acquitted it sends a very bad message out to the world about our military standards, and might well place our troops in greater danger of they are captured in some future conflict.
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“The court martial disagreed with you on that one unfortunately.”
“The court martial disagreed with you on that one unfortunately.”
Yes, another reason why the case should have been heard in a civilian court in front of a jury of 12.
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“You could say that any murderer is mentally "malfunctioning". It's grossly abnormal behaviour. That doesn't mean they're not guilty of murder.
I personally don't give a flying f*** what some shrinks have retrospectively dreamt up to defend this guy.”
“You could say that any murderer is mentally "malfunctioning". It's grossly abnormal behaviour. That doesn't mean they're not guilty of murder.
I personally don't give a flying f*** what some shrinks have retrospectively dreamt up to defend this guy.”
I know you don't, but there's only you looking foolish by dismissing their reports in such a childish fashion <shrugs> Their report isn't to defend him, simply an evaluation of his mental state, in their learned opinions.
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“As far as I'm concerned he's a cold blooded murderer who has let down his colleagues and his country. I sincerely hope he doesn't get off.
If he does get acquitted it sends a very bad message out to the world about our military standards, and might well place our troops in greater danger of they are captured in some future conflict.”
“As far as I'm concerned he's a cold blooded murderer who has let down his colleagues and his country. I sincerely hope he doesn't get off.
If he does get acquitted it sends a very bad message out to the world about our military standards, and might well place our troops in greater danger of they are captured in some future conflict.”
<sigh> He won't "get off", at the very least he may get his conviction commuted to manslaughter.
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“How should a person suffering from combat stress look in your obviously qualified opinion?
The prosecution are at liberty to provide expert opinion to counter the findings of Blackman's psychiatric evaluation by the two experts.”
“How should a person suffering from combat stress look in your obviously qualified opinion?
The prosecution are at liberty to provide expert opinion to counter the findings of Blackman's psychiatric evaluation by the two experts.”
To be fair the two experts the defence are using are always going to say that, aren't they? What is the point in using them otherwise?
I am sure the Crown will find experts of a similar standing who will offer a very different opinion based on precisely the same evidence.
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“Yes, another reason why the case should have been heard in a civilian court in front of a jury of 12.”
“Yes, another reason why the case should have been heard in a civilian court in front of a jury of 12.”
Really? I don't think that a civilian court would have found him guilty actually.
Originally Posted by Glawster2002:
“To be fair the two experts the defence are using are always going to say that, aren't they? What is the point in using them otherwise?
I am sure the Crown will find experts of a similar standing who will offer a very different opinion based on precisely the same evidence.
Experts have been known to be wrong before.”
“To be fair the two experts the defence are using are always going to say that, aren't they? What is the point in using them otherwise?
I am sure the Crown will find experts of a similar standing who will offer a very different opinion based on precisely the same evidence.
Experts have been known to be wrong before.”
In addition, the CCRC commissioned their own, independent expert medical evidence.
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“What has failed on my part? I'm pointing out the facts as they are, whilst it is people like yourself making unsubstantiated claims of bias and subterfuge.”
“What has failed on my part? I'm pointing out the facts as they are, whilst it is people like yourself making unsubstantiated claims of bias and subterfuge.”
Pretense now? Your blind faith in psychiatrists is rather disconcerting.
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“So his original defence was BS, aimed at getting an acquittal.
And this wasn't fully looked into prior to the trial, presented to the prosecution prior to trial for consideration or even brought up as mitigation? No, of course it wasn't and not because his defence were incompetent as his supporters now claim, but because it would have meant he'd have to have admitted that he did the deed.”
“So his original defence was BS, aimed at getting an acquittal.
And this wasn't fully looked into prior to the trial, presented to the prosecution prior to trial for consideration or even brought up as mitigation? No, of course it wasn't and not because his defence were incompetent as his supporters now claim, but because it would have meant he'd have to have admitted that he did the deed.”
Spot on. He lied from the start.
Originally Posted by lockes no 1 fan:
“ how easy would it be, after the fact, to lie about state of mind, after much research an a particular issue?
As with all criminal trials there is always bias depending on which side is paying for the report”
“ how easy would it be, after the fact, to lie about state of mind, after much research an a particular issue?
As with all criminal trials there is always bias depending on which side is paying for the report”
Extremely easy, especially for someone lacking conscience and he's already proved his loose relationship with the truth. I wonder why he lied?
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“Pretense now? Your blind faith in psychiatrists is rather disconcerting.”
“Pretense now? Your blind faith in psychiatrists is rather disconcerting.”
Yes, I should perhaps believe anne_666, part time forum warrior, than believe the findings of two eminently qualified psychiatrists, plus the independent expert findings of the CCRC.
I wonder how the folk on here who think this soldier has been hard done by feel....if a British soldier surrendered to an Isis fighter, who then proceeded to shoot him on camera?
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Yes, I should perhaps believe anne_666, part time forum warrior, than believe the findings of two eminently qualified psychiatrists, plus the independent expert findings of the CCRC.”
“Yes, I should perhaps believe anne_666, part time forum warrior, than believe the findings of two eminently qualified psychiatrists, plus the independent expert findings of the CCRC.”
Yes you've got it....at last..
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“Many of them, including the commander of 45 Commando Colonel Oliver Lee who resigned in protest at his treatment, feel that he has been hung out to dry.”
“Many of them, including the commander of 45 Commando Colonel Oliver Lee who resigned in protest at his treatment, feel that he has been hung out to dry.”
You've got to wonder what else was happening then and how many more have gone the same way? Does that Colonel and the others think shooting an unarmed man is part of the job?
Shame this one was caught by his own words.
Originally Posted by Bagshot85:
“I wonder how the folk on here who think this soldier has been hard done by feel....if a British soldier surrendered to an Isis fighter, who then proceeded to shoot him on camera?”
“I wonder how the folk on here who think this soldier has been hard done by feel....if a British soldier surrendered to an Isis fighter, who then proceeded to shoot him on camera?”
They'd be outraged and rightly so.
Originally Posted by Bagshot85:
“I wonder how the folk on here who think this soldier has been hard done by feel....if a British soldier surrendered to an Isis fighter, who then proceeded to shoot him on camera?”
“I wonder how the folk on here who think this soldier has been hard done by feel....if a British soldier surrendered to an Isis fighter, who then proceeded to shoot him on camera?”
I've asked the same a couple of times, as have others and it's been ignored by the Marine's defenders. .
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“I've asked the same a couple of times, as have others and it's been ignored by the Marine's defenders.”
“I've asked the same a couple of times, as have others and it's been ignored by the Marine's defenders.”
Presumably the ISIS fighter who carried out this theoretical shooting would likely have his own patriotic supporters, such is life. It's just a rhetorical question that doesn't add anything to the debate. The facts are what they are.
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