02 v Vodafone coverage

ACL777 · 19-04-2014, 21:47

Just one more thing for clarification. The sharing is of masts, sites and equipment but NOT signal?? Is that right?

japitts · 20-04-2014, 19:41

Quote:

Just one more thing for clarification. The sharing is of masts, sites and equipment but NOT signal?? Is that right?

That's correct:
Project Beacon outside London: One set of sites, carrying equipment managed by one operator (the east/west split) but broadcasting coverage for both networks. O2 & VF then maintain independent networks and spectrum allocation, but are using the same grid of sites. (London a slightly different setup). There is no national roaming between the two.

MBNL is very similar, where EE/3 are sharing a national grid of sites but maintain separate networks otherwise.

EE: Two networks become one - so one network code is eventually abandoned entirely, in the meantime full national roaming between the two so they are "presented" as one network.

ACL777 · 20-04-2014, 20:03

Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense.

qasdfdsaq · 20-04-2014, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three

Sorry, I wrote that a couple of times over and I'm not entirely sure it made sense to myself at the time.

What services do Network Rail provide to O2/VF?

Land.

Many of Vodafone & O2's sites stand on land owned by Network Rail.

qasdfdsaq · 20-04-2014, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by japitts

MBNL is very similar, where EE/3 are sharing a national grid of sites but maintain separate networks otherwise.

Very similar though the main difference is on 4G MBNL do not share equipment between EE & 3 and MBNL do not share equipment between 3G & 4G either.

uno · 21-04-2014, 00:50

I have also heard that part of the reason that O2 & Vodafone have not been able to renegotiate and extend their contracts with Network rail is due to them putting out a tender process for all companies to provide a 3&4 G network along railway lines. This will be for train operating companies to use for onboard wifi and consumers to use as well so will be big boost for regular commuters.

This is also supported by reports from a friend at BT Openreach who was sent on a job to remove racking equipment from a O2 mast that was being removed as contract had expired In a railways sidings but was told to just cover the end of the fibre and not disconnect from the network as another mast would be going in there in the next 6-12 months

Three · 21-04-2014, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

onboard wifi and consumers to use as well

Who in their right mind would purchase train Wi-Fi with a decent mobile signal?

qasdfdsaq · 21-04-2014, 02:45

Who said anything about purchase? Many operators provide it for free, including Scotland's national operator. Furthermore, a train is a perfect place to use a laptop or tablet which would require not only decent mobile signal but also tethering and ideally a charger for your handset - neither of which are always available.

clewsy · 21-04-2014, 06:48

I think VF and O2 are committed to shared sites so all masts will be shared in the future. Where I live EE still has its own mast with no sharing with 3 - which clearly highlights how on their agreement not all sites are being shared.

enapace · 21-04-2014, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

I think VF and O2 are committed to shared sites so all masts will be shared in the future. Where I live EE still has its own mast with no sharing with 3 - which clearly highlights how on their agreement not all sites are being shared.

Is it DC-HSDPA mast ? EE/3 only start to share masts when it has become a MBNL mast because they are a true ran share. Even though MBNL started years ago there still is a few masts left to be upgraded which should be done by end of this year. There is going be a few 2G only masts left but all the 3G ones will be both EE/3 masts.

clewsy · 21-04-2014, 07:18

Arr this is a 2G one. So are they not upgrading 2G sites to make them 3G in the future as surly this is just an increased cost?

enapace · 21-04-2014, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Arr this is a 2G one. So are they not upgrading 2G sites to make them 3G in the future as surly this is just an increased cost?

They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are.

clewsy · 21-04-2014, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are.

Its such an interesting setup really and very strange how its been done. It does seem that EE / Three got the head start on all of this, but with all the different kit specs knocking about this is going to make it hard to achieve maximum economies of scale. This seems to be the opposite with O2 / VF as people report the same constant kit is being installed in vast areas of the network. This will be a slower process but could really save a fortune in the longer term.

It makes sense really for site sharing, however when you get the odd few masts for single operators knocking about, seems to go against the whole notion of the agreement. I guess if it means nearly full coverage for most of the UK then it has to be good for the consumer so long as price competition remains.

Everything Goes · 21-04-2014, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are.

Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath!

enapace · 21-04-2014, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath!

That was me referring to MBNL not Beacon EE/3 normally are pretty good in rural areas.

Everything Goes · 21-04-2014, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

That was me referring to MBNL not Beacon EE/3 normally are pretty good in rural areas.

Agreed MBNL coverage never ceases to amaze me at how many out of the way areas have good 3G coverage. Much more like the thing

qasdfdsaq · 21-04-2014, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are.

Yes, indeed. At the end of the network "refresh" only a tiny number of sites will remain 2G only, a fraction of a percent. That said there are still over a thousand masts still to be decommissioned so they could just as well achieve that figure by turning off 2G masts.

qasdfdsaq · 21-04-2014, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Its such an interesting setup really and very strange how its been done. It does seem that EE / Three got the head start on all of this, but with all the different kit specs knocking about this is going to make it hard to achieve maximum economies of scale. This seems to be the opposite with O2 / VF as people report the same constant kit is being installed in vast areas of the network. This will be a slower process but could really save a fortune in the longer term.

It makes sense really for site sharing, however when you get the odd few masts for single operators knocking about, seems to go against the whole notion of the agreement. I guess if it means nearly full coverage for most of the UK then it has to be good for the consumer so long as price competition remains.

The headstart is what's actually causing all this. EE/3 (MBNL) got a headstart on the 3G share via 3-T-Mobile sharing almost a decade ago. That RAN share actually consolidated both networks' equipment to be all the same and got rid of the mish-mash of different kit specs, but that was only for 3G. They could not do the same for 2G because 3 has no 2G, and the 2G/4G refresh kit required by EE isn't wanted by 3. Hence T-Mobile retained their own existing 2G kit on their network, some of which is now getting pretty ancient.

It's because EE/3 have a recently refreshed and more up-to-date, consolidated 3G network without a mish-mash of different kit that it doesn't need to be upgraded again. That's why each operator is installing new kit for 4G only rather than integrated units like O2/VF.

It's only because O2/VF's network share so far has not shared equipment that they have ended up now with a giant mix of different equipment - and to be fair, even without the share each operator used a pretty considerable mix of different kit and vendors on their own - which is why the Beacon refresh is pulling all of that out and replacing it with a single integrated piece of kit for 2G, 3G and 4G. Furthermore it's giving their 3G networks an extensive, and much needed upgrade in the process, which EE/3 don't need to do.

While EE/3 are rolling out 4G on different kit for now, it'd be interesting to see what happens in 5-10 years time, when the current MBNL NSN 3G equipment becomes obsolete. Will they just switch it off, or will there be another round of consolidation and upgrades? In either case in that time O2/VF will have consolidated their 2G/3G/4G infrastructure into a single modular piece of kit, much like EE/3 have done with 3G now. Yet at the same time EE/3 will be left with a mish-mash of different kit and vendors on each site, much like VF/O2 are now, the exact opposite situation.

Basically VF/O2 are doing what EE/3 did 5 years ago and EE/3 are doing what VF/O2 did 5 years ago...

qasdfdsaq · 21-04-2014, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath!

From my experience of areas where O2 & VF have launched 4G it seems the 4G situation is the exact opposite of 3G.

You can drive 4 miles out from the city bypass and still find O2/VF have upgraded all their masts to 4G while EE have none. O2 & VF have about twice as much rural coverage outside the city as EE/MBNL. EE 4G has very good coverage in the city but they seem to have defined covering the city equates to upgrading every mast within the city bypass to 4G and stopping dead, completely ignoring all masts in rural towns and villages that just metres outside the bypass.

They've clearly made a business decision to not upgrade any masts outside the city (for now) and leave all surrounding rural areas on an older technology.

Which ironically sounds like what you're getting on O2/VF 3G.

Three · 21-04-2014, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Who said anything about purchase? Many operators provide it for free, including Scotland's national operator. Furthermore, a train is a perfect place to use a laptop or tablet which would require not only decent mobile signal but also tethering and ideally a charger for your handset - neither of which are always available.

XC charge for Wi-Fi and VT charge for Wi-Fi. I'd say the installation of more line side masts improving coverage would see a decrease in demand for train Wi-Fi.

enapace · 21-04-2014, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

From my experience of areas where O2 & VF have launched 4G it seems the 4G situation is the exact opposite of 3G.

You can drive 4 miles out from the city bypass and still find O2/VF have upgraded all their masts to 4G while EE have none. O2 & VF have about twice as much rural coverage outside the city as EE/MBNL. EE 4G has very good coverage in the city but they seem to have defined covering the city equates to upgrading every mast within the city bypass to 4G and stopping dead, completely ignoring all masts in rural towns and villages that just metres outside the bypass.

They've clearly made a business decision to not upgrade any masts outside the city (for now) and leave all surrounding rural areas on an older technology.

Which ironically sounds likes of what you're getting on O2/VF 3G.

Yeah they both have very different 4G rollouts not just in terms of kit but in terms of how they turning on. Obviously in the end It likely doesn't matter still think Three has the weirdest rollout of any.

clewsy · 21-04-2014, 19:24

Interesting reading about the networks and how they work. So O2/VF are going to share kit to broadcast all their services (2g,3g,4g) which makes real sense if it can be done within budget and improving network coverage.

So are Three actually building a separate 4g network to EE or just choosing to switch on sites at a later date for their kit?

Also what happens to the EE 2g only sites. IE assuming they are upgraded to offer 2g and 3g would the 3g part then see Three sharing these new mast sites?

jchamier · 21-04-2014, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

There is going be a few 2G only masts left but all the 3G ones will be both EE/3 masts.

I assumed those would be in locations where getting decent backhaul was insanely expensive (either fibre or microwave unavailable). So backhaul'd on something like a 2mbps E1 or whatever is already in place. Better to have voice and 2G data, than no service. Hopefully few and far between

qasdfdsaq · 22-04-2014, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three

XC charge for Wi-Fi and VT charge for Wi-Fi. I'd say the installation of more line side masts improving coverage would see a decrease in demand for train Wi-Fi.

Neither operator come anywhere near me, meanwhile the TOCs around here are:

Scotrail who offer it for free:
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/free-wifi

And East Coast who have it partially free (it has been totally free on and off in the past):
http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/wi-fi

As for line side masts improving coverage, I'd say the exact opposite, it will massively increase demand for on-train WiFi, primarily due to the fact that it'll actually be useable.

qasdfdsaq · 22-04-2014, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Interesting reading about the networks and how they work. So O2/VF are going to share kit to broadcast all their services (2g,3g,4g) which makes real sense if it can be done within budget and improving network coverage.

So are Three actually building a separate 4g network to EE or just choosing to switch on sites at a later date for their kit?

Define "separate network"

The physical grid (masts) will be the same but the actual 4G bit comes from separate boxes attached to existing masts.

20-04-2014, 19:41	#27
japitts Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 427	Quote: Originally Posted by ACL777 Just one more thing for clarification. The sharing is of masts, sites and equipment but NOT signal?? Is that right? That's correct: Project Beacon outside London: One set of sites, carrying equipment managed by one operator (the east/west split) but broadcasting coverage for both networks. O2 & VF then maintain independent networks and spectrum allocation, but are using the same grid of sites. (London a slightly different setup). There is no national roaming between the two. MBNL is very similar, where EE/3 are sharing a national grid of sites but maintain separate networks otherwise. EE: Two networks become one - so one network code is eventually abandoned entirely, in the meantime full national roaming between the two so they are "presented" as one network.

19-04-2014, 21:47	#26
ACL777 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 1,317	Just one more thing for clarification. The sharing is of masts, sites and equipment but NOT signal?? Is that right?

20-04-2014, 20:03	#28
ACL777 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 1,317	Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense.

20-04-2014, 23:33	#29
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Three Sorry, I wrote that a couple of times over and I'm not entirely sure it made sense to myself at the time. What services do Network Rail provide to O2/VF? Land. Many of Vodafone & O2's sites stand on land owned by Network Rail.

20-04-2014, 23:35	#30
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by japitts MBNL is very similar, where EE/3 are sharing a national grid of sites but maintain separate networks otherwise. Very similar though the main difference is on 4G MBNL do not share equipment between EE & 3 and MBNL do not share equipment between 3G & 4G either.

21-04-2014, 00:50	#31
uno Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 507	I have also heard that part of the reason that O2 & Vodafone have not been able to renegotiate and extend their contracts with Network rail is due to them putting out a tender process for all companies to provide a 3&4 G network along railway lines. This will be for train operating companies to use for onboard wifi and consumers to use as well so will be big boost for regular commuters. This is also supported by reports from a friend at BT Openreach who was sent on a job to remove racking equipment from a O2 mast that was being removed as contract had expired In a railways sidings but was told to just cover the end of the fibre and not disconnect from the network as another mast would be going in there in the next 6-12 months

21-04-2014, 01:25	#32
Three Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,114	Quote: Originally Posted by uno onboard wifi and consumers to use as well Who in their right mind would purchase train Wi-Fi with a decent mobile signal?

21-04-2014, 02:45	#33
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Who said anything about purchase? Many operators provide it for free, including Scotland's national operator. Furthermore, a train is a perfect place to use a laptop or tablet which would require not only decent mobile signal but also tethering and ideally a charger for your handset - neither of which are always available.

21-04-2014, 06:48	#34
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	I think VF and O2 are committed to shared sites so all masts will be shared in the future. Where I live EE still has its own mast with no sharing with 3 - which clearly highlights how on their agreement not all sites are being shared.

21-04-2014, 07:04	#35
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy I think VF and O2 are committed to shared sites so all masts will be shared in the future. Where I live EE still has its own mast with no sharing with 3 - which clearly highlights how on their agreement not all sites are being shared. Is it DC-HSDPA mast ? EE/3 only start to share masts when it has become a MBNL mast because they are a true ran share. Even though MBNL started years ago there still is a few masts left to be upgraded which should be done by end of this year. There is going be a few 2G only masts left but all the 3G ones will be both EE/3 masts.

21-04-2014, 07:18	#36
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Arr this is a 2G one. So are they not upgrading 2G sites to make them 3G in the future as surly this is just an increased cost?

21-04-2014, 07:50	#37
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Arr this is a 2G one. So are they not upgrading 2G sites to make them 3G in the future as surly this is just an increased cost? They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are.

21-04-2014, 09:19	#38
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are. Its such an interesting setup really and very strange how its been done. It does seem that EE / Three got the head start on all of this, but with all the different kit specs knocking about this is going to make it hard to achieve maximum economies of scale. This seems to be the opposite with O2 / VF as people report the same constant kit is being installed in vast areas of the network. This will be a slower process but could really save a fortune in the longer term. It makes sense really for site sharing, however when you get the odd few masts for single operators knocking about, seems to go against the whole notion of the agreement. I guess if it means nearly full coverage for most of the UK then it has to be good for the consumer so long as price competition remains.

21-04-2014, 09:39	#39
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are. Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath!

21-04-2014, 09:42	#40
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath! That was me referring to MBNL not Beacon EE/3 normally are pretty good in rural areas.

21-04-2014, 09:46	#41
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace That was me referring to MBNL not Beacon EE/3 normally are pretty good in rural areas. Agreed MBNL coverage never ceases to amaze me at how many out of the way areas have good 3G coverage. Much more like the thing

21-04-2014, 10:06	#42
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace They have said they will upgrade the majority of 2G only masts to 3G/4G but some are going remain 2G only if I remember rightly. Hopefully for you the mast in question is not one of them. Not sure why they leaving some as 2G only imagine those in question will be extremely rural masts hopefully they build 4G 800MHz masts in areas where these 2G Only masts are. Yes, indeed. At the end of the network "refresh" only a tiny number of sites will remain 2G only, a fraction of a percent. That said there are still over a thousand masts still to be decommissioned so they could just as well achieve that figure by turning off 2G masts.

21-04-2014, 10:21	#43
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Its such an interesting setup really and very strange how its been done. It does seem that EE / Three got the head start on all of this, but with all the different kit specs knocking about this is going to make it hard to achieve maximum economies of scale. This seems to be the opposite with O2 / VF as people report the same constant kit is being installed in vast areas of the network. This will be a slower process but could really save a fortune in the longer term. It makes sense really for site sharing, however when you get the odd few masts for single operators knocking about, seems to go against the whole notion of the agreement. I guess if it means nearly full coverage for most of the UK then it has to be good for the consumer so long as price competition remains. The headstart is what's actually causing all this. EE/3 (MBNL) got a headstart on the 3G share via 3-T-Mobile sharing almost a decade ago. That RAN share actually consolidated both networks' equipment to be all the same and got rid of the mish-mash of different kit specs, but that was only for 3G. They could not do the same for 2G because 3 has no 2G, and the 2G/4G refresh kit required by EE isn't wanted by 3. Hence T-Mobile retained their own existing 2G kit on their network, some of which is now getting pretty ancient. It's because EE/3 have a recently refreshed and more up-to-date, consolidated 3G network without a mish-mash of different kit that it doesn't need to be upgraded again. That's why each operator is installing new kit for 4G only rather than integrated units like O2/VF. It's only because O2/VF's network share so far has not shared equipment that they have ended up now with a giant mix of different equipment - and to be fair, even without the share each operator used a pretty considerable mix of different kit and vendors on their own - which is why the Beacon refresh is pulling all of that out and replacing it with a single integrated piece of kit for 2G, 3G and 4G. Furthermore it's giving their 3G networks an extensive, and much needed upgrade in the process, which EE/3 don't need to do. While EE/3 are rolling out 4G on different kit for now, it'd be interesting to see what happens in 5-10 years time, when the current MBNL NSN 3G equipment becomes obsolete. Will they just switch it off, or will there be another round of consolidation and upgrades? In either case in that time O2/VF will have consolidated their 2G/3G/4G infrastructure into a single modular piece of kit, much like EE/3 have done with 3G now. Yet at the same time EE/3 will be left with a mish-mash of different kit and vendors on each site, much like VF/O2 are now, the exact opposite situation. Basically VF/O2 are doing what EE/3 did 5 years ago and EE/3 are doing what VF/O2 did 5 years ago...

21-04-2014, 10:32	#44
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Well im 1 mile outside of a major town and the local O2 mast is 1 mile up the road and is still good old GPRS. To get any signal on Vodafone best bet is to stand in the garden or at a window (you guessed it GPRS only)! Given O2s and Vodafones definition of rural appears to be anywhere outside a town or city im not holding my breath! From my experience of areas where O2 & VF have launched 4G it seems the 4G situation is the exact opposite of 3G. You can drive 4 miles out from the city bypass and still find O2/VF have upgraded all their masts to 4G while EE have none. O2 & VF have about twice as much rural coverage outside the city as EE/MBNL. EE 4G has very good coverage in the city but they seem to have defined covering the city equates to upgrading every mast within the city bypass to 4G and stopping dead, completely ignoring all masts in rural towns and villages that just metres outside the bypass. They've clearly made a business decision to not upgrade any masts outside the city (for now) and leave all surrounding rural areas on an older technology. Which ironically sounds like what you're getting on O2/VF 3G.

21-04-2014, 13:59	#45
Three Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,114	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq Who said anything about purchase? Many operators provide it for free, including Scotland's national operator. Furthermore, a train is a perfect place to use a laptop or tablet which would require not only decent mobile signal but also tethering and ideally a charger for your handset - neither of which are always available. XC charge for Wi-Fi and VT charge for Wi-Fi. I'd say the installation of more line side masts improving coverage would see a decrease in demand for train Wi-Fi.

21-04-2014, 18:23	#46
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq From my experience of areas where O2 & VF have launched 4G it seems the 4G situation is the exact opposite of 3G. You can drive 4 miles out from the city bypass and still find O2/VF have upgraded all their masts to 4G while EE have none. O2 & VF have about twice as much rural coverage outside the city as EE/MBNL. EE 4G has very good coverage in the city but they seem to have defined covering the city equates to upgrading every mast within the city bypass to 4G and stopping dead, completely ignoring all masts in rural towns and villages that just metres outside the bypass. They've clearly made a business decision to not upgrade any masts outside the city (for now) and leave all surrounding rural areas on an older technology. Which ironically sounds likes of what you're getting on O2/VF 3G. Yeah they both have very different 4G rollouts not just in terms of kit but in terms of how they turning on. Obviously in the end It likely doesn't matter still think Three has the weirdest rollout of any.

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02 v Vodafone coverage

21-04-2014, 19:24	#47
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Interesting reading about the networks and how they work. So O2/VF are going to share kit to broadcast all their services (2g,3g,4g) which makes real sense if it can be done within budget and improving network coverage. So are Three actually building a separate 4g network to EE or just choosing to switch on sites at a later date for their kit? Also what happens to the EE 2g only sites. IE assuming they are upgraded to offer 2g and 3g would the 3g part then see Three sharing these new mast sites?

21-04-2014, 22:05	#48
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace There is going be a few 2G only masts left but all the 3G ones will be both EE/3 masts. I assumed those would be in locations where getting decent backhaul was insanely expensive (either fibre or microwave unavailable). So backhaul'd on something like a 2mbps E1 or whatever is already in place. Better to have voice and 2G data, than no service. Hopefully few and far between

22-04-2014, 08:49	#49
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Three XC charge for Wi-Fi and VT charge for Wi-Fi. I'd say the installation of more line side masts improving coverage would see a decrease in demand for train Wi-Fi. Neither operator come anywhere near me, meanwhile the TOCs around here are: Scotrail who offer it for free: http://www.scotrail.co.uk/free-wifi And East Coast who have it partially free (it has been totally free on and off in the past): http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/wi-fi As for line side masts improving coverage, I'd say the exact opposite, it will massively increase demand for on-train WiFi, primarily due to the fact that it'll actually be useable.

22-04-2014, 08:52	#50
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Interesting reading about the networks and how they work. So O2/VF are going to share kit to broadcast all their services (2g,3g,4g) which makes real sense if it can be done within budget and improving network coverage. So are Three actually building a separate 4g network to EE or just choosing to switch on sites at a later date for their kit? Define "separate network" The physical grid (masts) will be the same but the actual 4G bit comes from separate boxes attached to existing masts.