Apple have shipped over 500m iPhones since 2007

When I first got an iPhone 3G I was actually blown away by it. It was utterly amazing. Then came the iPhone 4 with the HD display. Again. Amazing. New. Innovative.

And that's where it stopped. The 4s, 5 and 5s have nothing new or innovative and certainly nothing to justify the continued rise in price.

I dislike the way people say apple are innovators. They were. A few years back. A finger print scanner? Wow. I had a PDA in 1993 that had a fingerprint scanner. It's neither new or innovative.

And iOS 7 looks like it was created by a sugar rushing three year old with too many crayons.

Where Apple edge in front of android is hardware that's tailored for the software. Android will never have that since it's available to anyone. Apples hardware and software are designed around each other. Thus 'benchmark' tests show nothing in terms of real world usage. It's great that a phone has 2gig of ram. But if the OS and apps aren't designed to take advantage of that completely. It becomes pointless and nothing but a marketing ploy. Much like the 5s and it's 64bit CPU.

I love iPhones. I have an iPhone 5 and have had an iPhone since the 3G. But I absolutely think it's apple playing catchup now.

If people are prepared to pay top whack for a phone they want premium features. A big screen. A lot of ram etc, which no iPhone offers (I personally don't want a big screen, but phones aren't manufactured and aimed at me alone). And if they're not wanting to pay top price they can't have an iPhone.

Android fits every bill. You want cheap and cheerful? There's an android phone for you. Want mid range? Go android. Looking for premium? Check out the HTC one M8 or the Galaxy S5. There's no market sector that doesn't have an android phone designed to fit it.

Apple need to catch up. Trends only last for so long. So many ardent apple fans are now looking elsewhere because Apple have nothing that meets their current needs/wants.

Basically. If apple want to stay top of the pack. They need to wise up and realise that one size does not fit all.

Excellent post .

The iPhone 6 is crucial , and I think Apple will have known this for some time .

They've got to go 4.7 inch + display with the most premium materials possible .

jonner101 · 20-04-2014, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by klendathu

What truth? That both sides make good stuff, but apple's stuff is in actual fact, as has been proved to you numerous times, is no better than the competition? That apples stuff uses mostly the same components as any other high end phone so actually cant possibly be better? Oh and also the fact apple builds absolutely nothing. They design it and a cheap factory which make probably the worst computer components in living history in china builds them.

Oh, and im no fanboy. Nor do i rally for one side. I use whatever i find i like at the time. A while back that was my iphone 4S. That got boring very quickly so i moved over again. So far apple has made nor done anything to tempt me back. Basic same design, same small screen, same boring, stale looking OS, lack of customisation etc. IF they change this, i will buy one immediately more than likely.

The way it stands, apple are no longer exciting. They are very boring.

You don't use tech. You are a wannabe fanboy. You wish you owned apple tech but clearly cant. Difference is, i have. You were the one hammering on about cost how you don't need this or that in a phone when buying your nexus 5.

How do you know that user doesn't use tech ?. I do and also have had applications published on the app store. There are pros and cons to both sides.

As others have pointed out if you charge for your app you get 70% Apple get 30% but it's totally up to you if you make the app free or charge for it.

Haven't you claimed that you're not a very technical in the past?. In which case I find the credibility of your posts to be quite low.

Lyceum · 20-04-2014, 23:35

Quote:

Excellent post .

The iPhone 6 is crucial , and I think Apple will have known this for some time .

They've got to go 4.7 inch + display with the most premium materials possible .

The worry is apple doing what Apple has done foe the past 3-4 years. Rest on their laurels. Incremental upgrades and a higher price tag. For the last few years apple have seemed to take the stance that they're apple. Whatever they release will sell. And while I do love my iPhone I can't help but want apple to have a wake up call. A phone that doesn't sell out. That doesn't shift millions. Simply for them to realise that they can't rest on those laurels. That if they want to charge people half a grand for a phone. They need to give them half a grands worth of new tech. Not three year old tech in a new case.

I dread to think how much they'll charge if they release an iPhone with a 4'7" screen. Premium has never been apples problem. You can't deny their phones are always made exceptionally well.

Ironically. If they do release a phone with a massive screen I'll be one of the ardent apple fans looking elsewhere. I don't want a massive screen phone.

jonner101 · 20-04-2014, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner101

When I first got an iPhone 3G I was actually blown away by it. It was utterly amazing. Then came the iPhone 4 with the HD display. Again. Amazing. New. Innovative.

And that's where it stopped. The 4s, 5 and 5s have nothing new or innovative and certainly nothing to justify the continued rise in price.

I dislike the way people say apple are innovators. They were. A few years back. A finger print scanner? Wow. I had a PDA in 1993 that had a fingerprint scanner. It's neither new or innovative.

And iOS 7 looks like it was created by a sugar rushing three year old with too many crayons.

Where Apple edge in front of android is hardware that's tailored for the software. Android will never have that since it's available to anyone. Apples hardware and software are designed around each other. Thus 'benchmark' tests show nothing in terms of real world usage. It's great that a phone has 2gig of ram. But if the OS and apps aren't designed to take advantage of that completely. It becomes pointless and nothing but a marketing ploy. Much like the 5s and it's 64bit CPU.

I love iPhones. I have an iPhone 5 and have had an iPhone since the 3G. But I absolutely think it's apple playing catchup now.

If people are prepared to pay top whack for a phone they want premium features. A big screen. A lot of ram etc, which no iPhone offers (I personally don't want a big screen, but phones aren't manufactured and aimed at me alone). And if they're not wanting to pay top price they can't have an iPhone.

Android fits every bill. You want cheap and cheerful? There's an android phone for you. Want mid range? Go android. Looking for premium? Check out the HTC one M8 or the Galaxy S5. There's no market sector that doesn't have an android phone designed to fit it.

Apple need to catch up. Trends only last for so long. So many ardent apple fans are now looking elsewhere because Apple have nothing that meets their current needs/wants.

Basically. If apple want to stay top of the pack. They need to wise up and realise that one size does not fit all.

I basically agree with this, but I think innovation is slowing down across the board and each new release of any phone tends to be just a small iteration. I think a lot of mobile phone companies will see flatlining sales.

The same trend is happening in a lot of electronics like camera's and computers for example where people no longer see the point of changing to a new version every year.

I do think Apple customers tend to be quite loyal so I think there will be a lot of people on iPhone 5's who will switch up to the 6 when the time comes, assuming the iPhone 6 isn't a major letdown.

The major problem for Apple is they have almost been too successful with the iPhone, to the extent that it makes most of their profit now and If I were a shareholder my main concern is that they look more like a company with all the eggs in one basket. Remarkable given that they didn't even make a phone before 2007.

Lyceum · 21-04-2014, 00:02

Quote:

I basically agree with this, but I think innovation is slowing down across the board and each new release of any phone tends to be just a small iteration. I think a lot of mobile phone companies will see flatlining sales.

The same trend is happening in a lot of electronics like camera's and computers for example where people no longer see the point of changing to a new version every year.

I do think Apple customers tend to be quite loyal so I think there will be a lot of people on iPhone 5's who will switch up to the 6 when the time comes, assuming the iPhone 6 isn't a major letdown.

The major problem for Apple is they have almost been too successful with the iPhone, to the extent that it makes most of their profit now and If I were a shareholder my main concern is that they look more like a company with all the eggs in one basket. Remarkable given that they didn't even make a phone before 2007.

Let's be honest. The uber loyal apple fans will upgrade to the iPhone 6 even if it's a massive let down. They could release the exact same phone and call it the iPhone 6 and there's still be apple fans running out to buy it.

I agree. What more can phones do? My hope is more companies follow Motorola and their Moto g model. Basically a lot of phone for a fair price. That's the way I hope the market goes now.

calico_pie · 21-04-2014, 00:11

Quote:

When I first got an iPhone 3G I was actually blown away by it. It was utterly amazing. Then came the iPhone 4 with the HD display. Again. Amazing. New. Innovative.

And that's where it stopped. The 4s, 5 and 5s have nothing new or innovative and certainly nothing to justify the continued rise in price.

I dislike the way people say apple are innovators. They were. A few years back. A finger print scanner? Wow. I had a PDA in 1993 that had a fingerprint scanner. It's neither new or innovative.

And iOS 7 looks like it was created by a sugar rushing three year old with too many crayons.

Where Apple edge in front of android is hardware that's tailored for the software. Android will never have that since it's available to anyone. Apples hardware and software are designed around each other. Thus 'benchmark' tests show nothing in terms of real world usage. It's great that a phone has 2gig of ram. But if the OS and apps aren't designed to take advantage of that completely. It becomes pointless and nothing but a marketing ploy. Much like the 5s and it's 64bit CPU.

I love iPhones. I have an iPhone 5 and have had an iPhone since the 3G. But I absolutely think it's apple playing catchup now.

If people are prepared to pay top whack for a phone they want premium features. A big screen. A lot of ram etc, which no iPhone offers (I personally don't want a big screen, but phones aren't manufactured and aimed at me alone). And if they're not wanting to pay top price they can't have an iPhone.

Android fits every bill. You want cheap and cheerful? There's an android phone for you. Want mid range? Go android. Looking for premium? Check out the HTC one M8 or the Galaxy S5. There's no market sector that doesn't have an android phone designed to fit it.

Apple need to catch up. Trends only last for so long. So many ardent apple fans are now looking elsewhere because Apple have nothing that meets their current needs/wants.

Basically. If apple want to stay top of the pack. They need to wise up and realise that one size does not fit all.

I'd certainly agree that it's horses for courses, but it's interesting that the two examples you give of premium features that the iPhone doesn't have are 1. More RAM and 2. Bigger screen. But also say that (a bit) more RAM isn't necessarily of any real world benefit and also that not everyone necessarily wants a bigger screen. Is there really much in the way of premium features not on the iPhone, but present on other phones?

The whole innovation thing gets overplayed I think. Basically people's expectations are set far too high. The original iPhone was innovative, but ever since it seems that unless Apple pull something like a new iPhone out their arse every 12-18 months then people are disappointed, or say they are no longer innovators. Change for the sake of change certainly isn't innovation.

I'd disagree about the fingerprint scanner - I'm going to go out on a li b now and suggest that the fingerprint scanner on the 5S will be a much better implementation of one a 1993 PDA. That seems a bit like saying that the televisions we have now are nothing special, because we've had colour televisions since the 60s.

swordman · 21-04-2014, 00:31

Of course it does make you wonder why a single model has sold so many. I would venture that no other product in a competitive market has ever even approached such sales for a single device.

Has one device managed to meet all the needs of customers fully above all other devices on offer? I would even wonder if any other devices were actually even considered in the majority of cases.

To have probably the greatest selling item ever is pretty fantastic, it does however make you wonder.

Lyceum · 21-04-2014, 01:21

Quote:

I'd certainly agree that it's horses for courses, but it's interesting that the two examples you give of premium features that the iPhone doesn't have are 1. More RAM and 2. Bigger screen. But also say that (a bit) more RAM isn't necessarily of any real world benefit and also that not everyone necessarily wants a bigger screen. Is there really much in the way of premium features not on the iPhone, but present on other phones?

The whole innovation thing gets overplayed I think. Basically people's expectations are set far too high. The original iPhone was innovative, but ever since it seems that unless Apple pull something like a new iPhone out their arse every 12-18 months then people are disappointed, or say they are no longer innovators. Change for the sake of change certainly isn't innovation.

I'd disagree about the fingerprint scanner - I'm going to go out on a li b now and suggest that the fingerprint scanner on the 5S will be a much better implementation of one a 1993 PDA. That seems a bit like saying that the televisions we have now are nothing special, because we've had colour televisions since the 60s.

Of course the finger print scanner is better than on a PDA released in 93. But it's not new and it's not innovative. In return. It's like a company releasing a colour television and claiming it to be new, different and innovative. It's not, it's a colour television done better than 20 years ago. But it's still a colour television.

Finger print scanners are not new, nor is having them on mobile devices innovative or new. Just because something has been improved upon and been implemented better doesn't make it new. Just better.

Apples biggest and best strength is it's marketing. No company can market like apple. They release a phone with a slight upgrade and make people believe it's a massive, vast, huge improvement worth upgrading too. There marketing is phenomenal.

What I'm saying is. In this day and age people want bang for buck. They don't want to throw cash away on small upgrades. Nobody is saying any company needs to do something amazing every year but the 5s isn't a huge step up from the 4s and if a company with the amount of cash, resources and supposed innovation as apple can't come up with something new and worth upgrading to every few years they're employing the wrong people. £550 is a lot of cash, more so when you're spending it on a disposable item like a phone. It's not unreasonable to want something a lot better than two year old tech when spending that amount of cash, not something marginally better.

Of course not everyone wants a bigger screen. Not everyone wants a smartphone. Not everyone wants a phone. A simple google search will tell you the market is now filled with a lot more people who want larger screens than those who don't.

100% more ram isn't 'a bit' more ram. It's double the ram. Yes. There's no iPhone with a big screen. Which a lot of people want when paying premium cash for a premium phone. For the spec geeks pretty much every other companies flagship device is better than apples. That's something many will take into account. So depending on what your idea of a premium phone is. Apple lacks in a lot of areas.

Btw. You're preaching to the converted. I have an iPhone. I love my iPhone. I just don't feel the need to believe everything apple tell me. Or believe apple are untouchable and the best available.

Anika Hanson · 21-04-2014, 06:48

Quote:

I'd certainly agree that it's horses for courses, but it's interesting that the two examples you give of premium features that the iPhone doesn't have are 1. More RAM and 2. Bigger screen. But also say that (a bit) more RAM isn't necessarily of any real world benefit and also that not everyone necessarily wants a bigger screen. Is there really much in the way of premium features not on the iPhone, but present on other phones?

The whole innovation thing gets overplayed I think. Basically people's expectations are set far too high. The original iPhone was innovative, but ever since it seems that unless Apple pull something like a new iPhone out their arse every 12-18 months then people are disappointed, or say they are no longer innovators. Change for the sake of change certainly isn't innovation.

I'd disagree about the fingerprint scanner - I'm going to go out on a li b now and suggest that the fingerprint scanner on the 5S will be a much better implementation of one a 1993 PDA. That seems a bit like saying that the televisions we have now are nothing special, because we've had colour televisions since the 60s.

It's not just the pda phone that had a finger print scanner. The Motorola Atrix released in 2011 had a fingerprint scanner so Apple have not shown innovation there.

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat

You say all of that, but you just spun a yarn about how the iPhone couldn't be the best phone because of one feature that didn't work as well as on other phones, as if that one example added some sort of objectivity.

I would have though the same argument could be made for or against any phone, and that anyone thinking any phone was or wasn't the best would largely be down to personal preference and be a bit more subjective.

Is it a yarn? How can that argument be made about any other phone, when any other phone actually allow this simple thing work? Its in fact verging on the pathetic for apple still not to allow this. Doesnt work as well? It doesn't work at all!!

It is quite a bizarre thing to leave out a £500+ phone while a £20 phone can do the job just fine!!

Quote:

With this charge of Apple's - you tell is, you seemed to be pretty sure earlier. Does this mean some developers pay Apple this charge, but still charge £0 for their app? Sounds a bit odd to me.

I sounded quite sure? I think you will find i was mistaken, and i at least, unlike other people on here, acknowledge my mistake.

Quote:

Although thinking about it I'm not sure how it works with Apple taking their 30% cut, less that's only for in app purchases / subscriptions?

And I would have thought that Amazon / Google take cuts as well, or have they missed a trick there?

To be honest, i have no idea. I just found it odd that some apps on Apple charge, while they do not on Android.

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 08:00

Quote:

Apple take a percentage of 30% from developers from paid apps. Google do the same with the Play store.

The fact remains that it's down to the individual developer to decide whether they charge for applications, or make them free with ads in. The decision lies with the developer, not with Apple, or Google, or Amazon, or anyone else who runs an app store.

Based on my recent experience with apps for the Nexus 4 and for iOS, paid apps are paid apps on both platforms - for example Weather Pro, Week Calendar, CoPilot...

Also based on recent experience, it seems to me that there are an ever increasing number of apps which are free to download, but that include in-app purchase items to gain use of the full package of features - similar to how shareware trial versions used to work back in the days of Palm and Windows Mobile. Again, this would be the decision of the developer to make that choice.

Got it now thanks

calico_pie · 21-04-2014, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anika Hanson

Is it a yarn? How can that argument be made about any other phone, when any other phone actually allow this simple thing work? Its in fact verging on the pathetic for apple still not to allow this. Doesnt work as well? It doesn't work at all!!

It is quite a bizarre thing to leave out a £500+ phone while a £20 phone can do the job just fine!!

I sounded quite sure? I think you will find i was mistaken, and i at least, unlike other people on here, acknowledge my mistake.

To be honest, i have no idea. I just found it odd that some apps on Apple charge, while they do not on Android.

Maybe it was a figure of speech, a turn of phrase.

I didn't literally mean that you could make that argument using that particular example. I meant you could argue that any phone wasn't The Best Phone by citing any one example of something that was a feature of Phone A but not Phone B.

I would have thought that all of the top end phones have particular feature sets that when combined, anyone could make a case for any of them being the best phone. Its probably pretty much impossible to ever objectively declare any to be the best.

You sounded quite sure when you posted it earlier, yes. If you weren't, then fairy enough. But just out of interest, what was it that made you think that Apple had this policy that was different to Amazon or Google?

calico_pie · 21-04-2014, 10:06

Quote:

It's not just the pda phone that had a finger print scanner. The Motorola Atrix released in 2011 had a fingerprint scanner so Apple have not shown innovation there.

Sure - but the Motorola Atrix scanner, by all accounts, wasn't that great either.

That Apple's implementation works differently, and arguably works better because of that implementation is, arguably, a result of innovation.

Again using colour televisions as an analogy, would you argue that there has been no innovation in the field of colour television because we have had colour television for decades?

I think you are confusing innovation with invention.

Something can only be invented once, e.g. colour television, digital cameras, fingerprint scanners. But they can be improved and advanced over time through further innovation.

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner101

How do you know that user doesn't use tech ?. I do and also have had applications published on the app store. There are pros and cons to both sides.

As others have pointed out if you charge for your app you get 70% Apple get 30% but it's totally up to you if you make the app free or charge for it.

Haven't you claimed that you're not a very technical in the past?. In which case I find the credibility of your posts to be quite low.

I know because of his past posts. Much like you think I have said I wasn't technical from my past posts. Problem is, I never said that. I love tech and am very techy.

late8 · 21-04-2014, 10:58

Quote:

You don't use tech. You are a wannabe fanboy. You wish you owned apple tech but clearly cant. Difference is, i have. You were the one hammering on about cost how you don't need this or that in a phone when buying your nexus 5.

You sound a utter pri*k Stiggles.

I cant actually be bothered to upload a picture of my stuff for you now as you will probably also deny that too.

I take no sides in the Apple / Android debate, but you seem to clearly do so all the time. Theres a reason why Apple have shifted so many phones (and tablets for that matter) - because they are good. They work easy, they don't require hassle of 3rd party bits and bobs, and together with their echosystem work!.
Not everyone wants to customize and mess with all sorts of shit just to get there phone working how they want.

calico_pie · 21-04-2014, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by late8

I know because of his past posts. Much like you think I have said I wasn't technical from my past posts. Problem is, I never said that. I love tech and am very techy.

So what made you even think that Apple had this policy of charging for apps that was beyond the control of developers? And how did you think it worked with free apps?

A cynic might think you were just trying it on with something that simply made Apple sound like some sort of bad guys. Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't think that. But a cynic might have.

calico_pie · 21-04-2014, 11:57

Quote:

You sound a utter pri*k Stiggles.

I cant actually be bothered to upload a picture of my stuff for you now as you will probably also deny that too.

I take no sides in the Apple / Android debate, but you seem to clearly do so all the time. Theres a reason why Apple have shifted so many phones (and tablets for that matter) - because they are good. They work easy, they don't require hassle of 3rd party bits and bobs, and together with their echosystem work!.
Not everyone wants to customize and mess with all sorts of shit just to get there phone working how they want.

So you definitely don't think its because people who buy Apple products are idiots, who would never buy them if only they knew what they were missing?

swordman · 21-04-2014, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by late8

So what made .......
A cynic might think you were just trying it on with something that simply made Apple sound like some sort of bad guys.

When someone admits they were wrong what point still debating the issue exactly?
Being able to admit when you are wrong is something you would do well to acknowledge

alanwarwic · 21-04-2014, 12:21

Android does the exact same 500 million but per year, not lifetime.

Apple sells the grainiest high end phone available so maybe they have far more opportunity to improve at the low end.

Lyceum · 21-04-2014, 12:32

I have an iPhone and I totally forgot about the lack of Bluetooth file transfer. I'm jail token so not a problem. Air blue sharing would let me do just that.

But I can honestly hold my hand up and say since I've had an iPhone I've never needed to send a file by Bluetooth. With whatsapp and iMessages and email, one of them is available on pretty much every platform they've taken over where Bluetooth was previously needed. For me anyway.

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 14:58

Quote:

You sound a utter pri*k Stiggles.

I cant actually be bothered to upload a picture of my stuff for you now as you will probably also deny that too.

I take no sides in the Apple / Android debate, but you seem to clearly do so all the time. Theres a reason why Apple have shifted so many phones (and tablets for that matter) - because they are good. They work easy, they don't require hassle of 3rd party bits and bobs, and together with their echosystem work!.
Not everyone wants to customize and mess with all sorts of shit just to get there phone working how they want.

Nice potty mouth!

And there is a reason Android have shifted more than apple. That upsets you though for some reason.

I take no sides and i think even CP would back me up here. I just don't have my head shoved so far up apples arse that I can't see past them. I buy whatever I find I like at the time. A few years back, it was the iPhone 4s. Now it's the nexus 5. Later it may be the iPhone 6 if they pull their finger out. Apple are boring just now. Nothing new. Same rehashed design. Same boring OS..

Its clear by this post you know utterly nothing about them. IPhone's do require a lot of 3rd party add ons to get simple things working. Can you Bluetooth a picture to a printing kiosk in boots? Oh no!! Apple have disabled that and won't allow you to do something simple a £20 phone can! Need a 3rd party app and a jailbreak to do that.

Kinda blows your daft theory out the water doesn't it?

Tell me, what 3rd party apps do you need on andriod to do anything?

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 15:00

Quote:

I have an iPhone and I totally forgot about the lack of Bluetooth file transfer. I'm jail token so not a problem. Air blue sharing would let me do just that.

But I can honestly hold my hand up and say since I've had an iPhone I've never needed to send a file by Bluetooth. With whatsapp and iMessages and email, one of them is available on pretty much every platform they've taken over where Bluetooth was previously needed. For me anyway.

Indeed. But there will be that one time like me and my father needed the other day and he couldn't! Just a stupid ommision for a £500ish phone I find.

Stiggles · 21-04-2014, 15:01

Quote: