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iPhone 5 recalled over faulty power button (Wake / Sleep)
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grumpyoldbat
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by Matt D:
“Apple provides a 1 year manufacturer's warranty - this is not a statutory thing, and is in addition to your rights as a consumer.

The "2 year EU warranty" is with the retailer, not the manufacturer. And it is actually less than what we've already long had in the UK via the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended), which gives consumers up to 6 years to claim against the retailer for goods that are inherently faulty, not fit for purpose, etc. (only 5 if in Scotland).

Wherever you buy an iPhone from, whether from Apple directly or another retailer, it will have a 1 year warranty with the manufacturer (Apple), 2 years of cover with the retailer via the "EU warranty", and up to 6 years of cover with the retailer via the Sale of Goods Act.”

I'm bumping Matt's post as this is the clearest explanation I've seen of warranties via manufacturer and retailer and which applies where.
alanwarwic
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“You really are just over analysing this now.
What they are saying is very simple: some iPhone 5's manufactured up to March 2013 may be affected.
To argue that Apple are somehow being deceptive by saying "through March 2013" is just ludicrous.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...omplaints.html
"The fault predominantly applies to handsets made after March 2013"

Through means anything you want it to.
Apple are very deceptive, and always will be when only perception matters.
swordman
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat:
“I'm bumping Matt's post as this is the clearest explanation I've seen of warranties via manufacturer and retailer and which applies where.”

I'm afraid that isn't either. The 2 year EU warranty was brought in to provide a minimum Base line for European warranties. It is bettered by UK legislation and even where it is in force does not provide the same cover as a 2 year manufactures warranty.

Anyone who thinks they are fully covered for 2 years with an iPhone is mistaken or wishes to tweak the facts for some reason.
alanwarwic
01-05-2014
And is this how it came about wth the 4 and 4s having the exact same defect?
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/05...power-buttons/

So is this a pre-emptive strike after somehow winning that one?
http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsu...uit-dismissed/

I would guess that most iPhones 4, 4S and 5 made up to March 2013 have that design defect. Apple are quite clever in going about 'buttoning it'.

It seems the class action failed because they could not show when Apple knew about the fault. Thus the situation we have now. Because we then knew for certain that they now know about the defective manufacturing method they then had to act.
calico_pie
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...omplaints.html
"The fault predominantly applies to handsets made after March 2013"

Through means anything you want it to.
Apple are very deceptive, and always will be when only perception matters.”

I always thought in US English something like "through March 2013" meant until the end of March 2013. But who am I to argue with the Daily Mail as a reputable source. Never mind that everyone else is reporting it as phones made before April 2013, I'm sure the Daily Mail must be correct.

And no, I don't think it means anything you want it to.

Unless you are suggesting that if someone has a faulty phone, and they say they bought it in Feb 13, Apple will say "Ah, sorry, its only phones bought after March 13 that are eligible".

And someone else with a faulty phone bought in April goes to Apple, and they are saying "Ah, sorry, its only phones bought before Marh 13 that are eligible."

Which is not, as far as I can tell what is happening at all. In fact there are plenty of anecdotal reports of people taking faulty phones to Apple and being given a replacement with no fuss at all.

All you are doing here is speculating wildly, whilst ignoring what actually is happening. Apple have identified an issue, and are fixing it.

If you want to draw completely unfounded conclusions based on the most tenuous of logic to portray Apple as something they probably are not, then that says far more about you than it says about Apple.

And no - this isn't about blindly defending Apple, its about not thinking that this is anything other than it is - Apple dealing with an issue in a perfectly reasonable way.

As I said before, in my experience they have always been very good, for example replacing a 27" iMac LCD panel free of charge when it was over a year out of warranty. It may have been something that was ultimately covered by the Sale of Goods Act, but the point is I didn't have to push - they recognised the issue and authorised the repair without fuss.
DS Forum Support
01-05-2014
Hi,

We've removed a number of off-topic and abusive posts - continue such unconstructive discussion and we'll be forced to take further action.

Thanks
DS FS
IslandNiles
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...omplaints.html
"The fault predominantly applies to handsets made after March 2013"

Through means anything you want it to.
Apple are very deceptive, and always will be when only perception matters.”

It doesn't mean anything you want it to. Although it's an annoyingly American term, it's very commonly used to mean 'up to' or 'until'. For example, on vouchers or money-off coupons, they tend not to say 'expires 30th June' or 'valid until 30th June'. They say 'valid through June 30th'.

The fault here is with the Daily Mail's lazy journalism. Other media outlets didn't make the same mistake.
alanwarwic
01-05-2014
DS FS deleted my correction and other important info. (including all the 4,,4s and 5 history behind the button saga). It was really quite fascinating to know how Apple likely came about to offer some cover for that known fault.

However iPhone 5 owners do really need to know it is a 1 year extra 'button warranty' for the iPhone 5 manufactured up to March 2013.

Apples use of through instead of 'by' or 'up to' is confusing in the UK. It caught the Daily Mail, though as usual the Mail did manage to supply the facts rather than be just a messenger. I'd say the Mail are the least lazy, they just erred in that date bit of it.
calico_pie
01-05-2014
So what have we learned?

Probably that iPhone 5 owners shouldn't rely on the Daily Mail for information regarding their Apple products.

We could probably extend that generally to people shouldn't rely on the Daily Mail for information regarding anything.

As I said earlier, the current issue with the 5 is with the sleep / wake button at the top of the phone. If there is an issue with the home button on the 4 / 4S then it is a separate issue.

It beggars belief that you are still siding with the Daily mail who provided the wrong information, and trying to make out that is Apple's fault.

As I said earlier, if anyone is unsure they are invited to enter the serial number to confirm whether or not their unit is affected.
xflare
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“DS FS deleted my correction and other important info. (including all the 4,,4s and 5 history behind the button saga)
.”

Maybe they have just got wise to your game lol
tdenson
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Can anyone explain the exact meaning of Apple's, likely intentionally confusing "through March 2013" ?
!”

Talk about conspiracy theories running riot. I am amazed that you are not conversant with this everyday Americanism that you must have heard hundreds of time on TV or in advertising. There's nothing "intentionally confusing" about it. It's just typical American parochialism. There is zero doubt over what it means.
alanwarwic
01-05-2014
Well I accepted that, even if I had to reverse French translate search to find that 'through' means 'By' or 'Up to'.
I hunched it meant 'between' or 'in'. I guess many Americanisms are new.

Some more new later history.
http://iphone5recall.com/

In fact there was never even a repair option.
Matt D
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by swordman:
“I'm afraid that isn't either. The 2 year EU warranty was brought in to provide a minimum Base line for European warranties. It is bettered by UK legislation and even where it is in force does not provide the same cover as a 2 year manufactures warranty.

Anyone who thinks they are fully covered for 2 years with an iPhone is mistaken or wishes to tweak the facts for some reason.”

I'm not arguing about what other manufacturers provide and how that compares with Apple, nor how the level of cover with a manufacturer's warranty may differ from the level of cover using your statutory rights as a consumer. I simply stated the facts regarding what Apple does provide (1 year manufacturer's warranty) and what the law does provide (2 years against the retailer under the "EU warranty", up to 6 years against the retailer under the Sale of Goods Act).
swordman
01-05-2014
I never said otherwise or that you were wrong, I stated that in the context of what was being claimed here by some that

1. Apple do not offer a two year warranty and
2. that any statutory rights you may have does not equate to the level of cover under a two year manufacturers warranty as was incorrectly being alluded to.

In effect the EU warranty is pretty useless in the Uk as the conditions attached to it are inferior to you rights under sale of goods.

No matter now anyway it seems to have been swiftly moved on from by some
calico_pie
01-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Well I accepted that, even if I had to reverse French translate search to find that 'through' means 'By' or 'Up to'.
I hunched it meant 'between' or 'in'. I guess many Americanisms are new.

Some more new later history.
http://iphone5recall.com/

In fact there was never even a repair option.”

You do seem unusually interested in this Alan. Do you happen to own an iPhone 5, or is all of this just, you know, out of a general interest?
kidspud
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by swordman:
“I never said otherwise or that you were wrong, I stated that in the context of what was being claimed here by some that

1. Apple do not offer a two year warranty and
2. that any statutory rights you may have does not equate to the level of cover under a two year manufacturers warranty as was incorrectly being alluded to.

In effect the EU warranty is pretty useless in the Uk as the conditions attached to it are inferior to you rights under sale of goods.

No matter now anyway it seems to have been swiftly moved on from by some ”

Yes, someone claimed that samsung give a 24 month "European standard" warranty. I still don't know what they meant by that as the only thing correct is that every mobile phone comes with what is required by EU law.

Others appeared to claim there was no law relating to warranty, but they soon moved on.
alanwarwic
03-05-2014
Yes, others offer a standard 2 years warranty throughout Europe but include the UK in this.

But yes, Apple are only following the law to its minimum. The same with not paying any corporation tax anywhere in Europe. (I'm including Ireland in this as they amount paid there is negligible)
floozie_21
03-05-2014
I'm not having an issue with my home button but it looks like my phone is 'eligible' for the fix. Shame I didn't have such eligibility when the home button on my 4 stopped working.

Now my real issue is with these bloody phone chargers....another one is biting the dust as we speak!
alanwarwic
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by floozie_21:
“I'm not having an issue with my home button but it looks like my phone is 'eligible' for the fix...”

Reports seem to hint that phones are eligible if they were made to March 2013.(and that could be the last production date)
The defect became well known from the iPhone 4 and 4S litigation so they changed the design.

It is likely they knowingly sold defective goods and chose this as the best way forwards back in 2013.
kidspud
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Yes, others offer a standard 2 years warranty throughout Europe but include the UK in this.

But yes, Apple are only following the law to its minimum. The same with not paying any corporation tax anywhere in Europe. (I'm including Ireland in this as they amount paid there is negligible)”

I assume you mean following the law? There is no such thing as following the law to its minimum

You are looking a little desperate in your attempts to criticise Apple.
kidspud
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Reports seem to hint that phones are eligible if they were made to March 2013.(and that could be the last production date)
The defect became well known from the iPhone 4 and 4S litigation so they changed the design.

It is likely they knowingly sold defective goods and chose this as the best way forwards back in 2013.”

Reports are clear and a helpful website is even clearer.

The defect is not well know in the 4 and 4s and you kindly provided a link to a class action which was then dismissed.

"Likely" = alanwarwic usual speculation.
alanwarwic
03-05-2014
It is well known here that iPhone buttons are flaky. It has been mentioned throughout the years.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...hannel=suggest
BTW, I think they are just a weak design that will fail in time. They probably had it percentage classed as 'fit for purpose'.

And considering old contributor fan chenks iPhone broke too, I find his comment slightly amusing on that one.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1905352
flagpole
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by davethorp:
“This isn't a recall. If it were Apple would be, you know, recalling every single phone. Only users affected by the specific issue need to take or send their phone into Apple”

yeah that is what a recall is.
swordman
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Yes, someone claimed that samsung give a 24 month "European standard" warranty. I still don't know what they meant by that as the only thing correct is that every mobile phone comes with what is required by EU law.

Others appeared to claim there was no law relating to warranty, but they soon moved on.”

Good lord it took you all that time to try and come up with that face saving response, was it worth it

Who claimed this 24 month EU standard warranty then? no one I know of. Samsung offer a full two year manufacturer warranty on their phones. I know some clueless people tried to argue that EU law means Apple in effect offer the same 2 years and humiliated themselves in the process.

Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I assume you mean following the law? There is no such thing as following the law to its minimum

You are looking a little desperate in your attempts to criticise Apple.”

The old nit picking approach, last refuge of the clueless.

Apple do not offer a EU warranty they offer a 12 month only warranty on their goods the minimum required by the law other manufacturers go above and beyond the law and offer two years. That may well reflect their enhanced confidence in their products perhaps.

As for this EU warranty you keep mentioning who is offering this on an apple product exactly i would be interested to see. However you do know that anything provided under statutory rights is no where near as concrete as a manufacturers warranty, yes?

Seem people do look very desperate in their attempts to excuse apple for doing just the minimum
BKM
03-05-2014
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“yeah that is what a recall is.”

No it isn't! A recall generally means that ALL units get recalled and fixed ... Even ones not exhibiting the fault. The trolling title of this thread is patently wrong when this is NOT such a general recall!
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