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#26 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,239
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Series 4 Is The BEST
![]() Some people clearly like this fact about it. I find that it makes me want to punch walls. Or 90% of the candidates. Or both. Even Raef has lost much of his charm. Lucinda was overrated and Sara, while probably the best of a dreadful bunch, could still irritate. I didn't like this series much. This may come across slightly. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Series 4 is jam packed with ****s, bellends and some that encapsulate both, all of whom should be strung up from gibbets and pelted with manure.
Some people clearly like this fact about it. I find that it makes me want to punch walls. Or 90% of the candidates. Or both. Even Raef has lost much of his charm. Lucinda was overrated and Sara, while probably the best of a dreadful bunch, could still irritate. I didn't like this series much. This may come across slightly. I actually liked quite a few of the candidates from that series individually - Lee, Claire, Helene, Kevin, a couple of others - but all together they just made for a really unenjoyable series, in my opinion. Seeing people fight, bully one another and mess up all the time is not what I watch this show for. I generally prefer the series that emphasise the candidates doing well. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,892
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I think that the only bullying that happened was with Sara in Week 6 - and I think that it wasn't really 'bullying' IMO. Yes it was horribly nasty, but it was more of an argument and it only happened once. And TBF, Jenny got fired the next week.
I think Series 3 was much worse in terms of leaving a sour taste in your mouth... Adam was pretty bullied, more badly so than Sara, Vile Katie was selected for the final, Kristina (although I liked her) was quite two-faced and obnoxious, and I just didn't like Simon, and he won
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#29 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I think that the only bullying that happened was with Sara in Week 6 - and I think that it wasn't really 'bullying' IMO. Yes it was horribly nasty, but it was more of an argument and it only happened once. And TBF, Jenny got fired the next week.
I think Series 3 was much worse in terms of leaving a sour taste in your mouth... Adam was pretty bullied, more badly so than Sara, Vile Katie was selected for the final, Kristina (although I liked her) was quite two-faced and obnoxious, and I just didn't like Simon, and he won ![]() You make a good point about Series 3, and I agree that Adam was horribly bullied, worse that Sara - but I think that Sara was better than Adam. Adam went not because the gang had picked on him, but because he had pretty much reached the end of the road, especially with two PM losses. Sara was generalyl really good on the tasks bar the task she was fired on, and I think the things that she had been unfairly accused of counted against her. Also in Series 3, if you're looking at task performance, Katie deserved to get as far as she did, because she and Kristina were the strongest task performers. I don't think personality should come into it. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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I think there was bullying right the way through, from Episode 1 with the huge split in the boys' team. Pretty much everyone got involved with it, bar a few individuals. I was trying to write out lots of examples, and then I realised that it was actually too complicated to do that.
You make a good point about Series 3, and I agree that Adam was horribly bullied, worse that Sara - but I think that Sara was better than Adam. Adam went not because the gang had picked on him, but because he had pretty much reached the end of the road, especially with two PM losses. Sara was generalyl really good on the tasks bar the task she was fired on, and I think the things that she had been unfairly accused of counted against her. Also in Series 3, if you're looking at task performance, Katie deserved to get as far as she did, because she and Kristina were the strongest task performers. I don't think personality should come into it. I really can't think of any examples of bullying! (apart from of Sara perhaps) And yes, both Michael or Helene could have gone over Sara in Week 8, but I don't feel she was an outstanding candidate in any way, although I acknowledge she was a pretty good PM in Week 3 and drove some good negotiations in Week 7. Apart from that she was quite under the radar, and I'm lost as to why you think she was the best. |
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#31 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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[quote=hownwbrowncow;72973274]I don't think you can really count Episode 1 as bullying... Arguing and bullying are different... I really can't think of any examples of bullying! (apart from of Sara perhaps) Okay, here are some examples: Jenny to Lucinda (and Shazia to a lesser extent) in Week 2 Claire to Simon in Week 4 (I personally wouldn't really call that bullying, but there was a great thread a few weeks ago where Jack (TXF0429) made the case for that) Helene to Lucinda in Week 4 The obvious with Week 6 I've only seen the second half of the series once so it's hard to pinpoint more examples, but I'm sure it went on throughout. Quote:
And yes, both Michael or Helene could have gone over Sara in Week 8, but I don't feel she was an outstanding candidate in any way, although I acknowledge she was a pretty good PM in Week 3 and drove some good negotiations in Week 7. Apart from that she was quite under the radar, and I'm lost as to why you think she was the best.
Overall, I think that Sara proved herself to be both a very strong candidate and a thoroughly pleasant person, and there is no doubt in my mind that she should have won that series. |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,892
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I forgot about the lucinda-jenny incident I'll admit.
No bullying happened in Week 1 or4 in my opinion... |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
I forgot about the lucinda-jenny incident I'll admit.
No bullying happened in Week 1 or4 in my opinion... I just feel that the editing focussed more on the candidates disagreeing with one another (whether or not it descended into bullying) than on them actually doing the tasks, and that doesn't happen to be what I enjoy from this programme. If that's what other people enjoy that's fine, but I will debate it with them. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,283
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Quote:
And yes, both Michael or Helene could have gone over Sara in Week 8, but I don't feel she was an outstanding candidate in any way, although I acknowledge she was a pretty good PM in Week 3 and drove some good negotiations in Week 7. Apart from that she was quite under the radar, and I'm lost as to why you think she was the best.
![]() Yes, in for instance series 5, 6, or 7 she might have been snowed under, but the end series 4 was won by a guy who could impersonate a reverse pterodactylus...... |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Well, that would be a good point in most series, but in Series 4? Where most people in the end just all went for Claire to win because.............she reminded them of the badger (or something)
![]() Yes, in for instance series 5, 6, or 7 she might have been snowed under, but the end series 4 was won by a guy who could impersonate a reverse pterodactylus...... |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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You make a good point actually. I still think that of course she was better than Michael, but she was about on a par with Helene, or slightly better. The point that I'm making is that it was hardly a Miriam/Karen situation - she couldn't have won... by that point Claire, Lucinda and a few others had all displayed more talents than Sara.
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#37 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scotland
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I thought Claire was very suited to the job. Also, I thought Sir Alan had a soft spot for her. Furthermore she was the best task performer. Therefore I am very surprised she didn't win.
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#38 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
I thought Claire was very suited to the job. Also, I thought Sir Alan had a soft spot for her. Furthermore she was the best task performer. Therefore I am very surprised she didn't win.
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#39 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,283
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You make a good point actually. I still think that of course she was better than Michael, but she was about on a par with Helene, or slightly better.
The only image I have of her is drinking coffee sometime during the series. Honestly, I don't think that we will ever see someone like that get that far in the competition again (sure, Fran and Jade were also rather bland, but Helene was on a totally different level). |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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QUOTE=Sherlock_Holmes;73034507]Have to stop you there, as Helene is imho the worst candidate to make it that far into the competition. That is a very harsh insult to Sara (or anyone else for that matter to be compared with her).
The only image I have of her is drinking coffee sometime during the series. Honestly, I don't think that we will ever see someone like that get that far in the competition again (sure, Fran and Jade were also rather bland, but Helene was on a totally different level).[/quote] You need to rewatch the series if that's all you remember of Helene. I know she wasn't a good candidate but Sara wasn't that much better. I'm too tired to elaborate st the moment. |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Have to stop you there, as Helene is imho the worst candidate to make it that far into the competition. That is a very harsh insult to Sara (or anyone else for that matter to be compared with her).
The only image I have of her is drinking coffee sometime during the series. Honestly, I don't think that we will ever see someone like that get that far in the competition again (sure, Fran and Jade were also rather bland, but Helene was on a totally different level). I know that you don't rate Jade because you've mentioned it a few times on other threads. I respect that, we all have our personal opinions of candidates, and that is what this forum is for. But I would be interested to know what it was about her that you thought was so awful, because you never seem to go into much detail about why, and I think that bar her business plan and her Week 7 performance, there isn't actually much negative that you can say about her. |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,892
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Basically,having thought about it, Sara was definitely a more solid perfromer than Helene up to Week 8. I'll tuk through it...
Week 1: They were both in the background. Week 2: Sara was in the background whereas Helene pretty muchheaded the door to door sales team. Week 3: Sara, I admit was one of the best PMs this series. Helene did the tasks she was given, and defended Sara in the kitchen. Week 4: Sara was quite in the background again. Helene in my opinion was quite a good PM. All this 'Helene tried to engineer Lucindas firing' is rubbish. The three jobs were sales, photography or backroom, none of which Lucinda was good at, and therefore she would probably have gotten into a scrap with Helene either way. I admit Helene could definitely have done more to help Lucinda though. Week 5: Sara was working in the kitchen on the first day, and so was Helene. They both did their jobs the best they could. On. The second day, I remember seeing a few sales from Sara, but not from Helene... Week 6: Sara didn't contribute a lot, she did put forward a few ideas whcjh were shut down, but she could have done more, although I understand why she didn't because she was working with the most terrifying group of people . Helene was invisible on this task.Week 7: Sara did some good negotiations, Helene did none. Week 8: Helene was a bad PM, bur then Sara was a sh*t salesperson. Then, after Sara was fired, Helene was the star performer of week 9 on Renaissance, coming up with the fantastic pack alongside Claire, and doing a good pitch alongside Claire. I say that Helene was better than Claire though because Claire came up with a name that let the team down. Helene also put in a very good interview performance, and led her team well in Week12. So overall, looking at this, you have to admit Sara was only a bit better than Helene! |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,587
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I don't think that it's fair to assume that because someone was 'in the background' that they were a weak performer. Of course you have the Alex Britez Cabrals of the world who are clearly trying to remain in the background, but I think a lot of the time, people who just get on with things and remain professional don't show up in the edit because the producers don't think they'll be as entertaining. I think the best example of this is Lohit. He was actually one of my favourite candidates from Series 3, but if you look at it like that, you'd think he was a dreadful candidate because we never saw much of him. That was not his fault though, because if you actually make an effort to look at what he's doing, he's generally very good. I think a lot of the time it is on the viewer to individually focus on a candidate and assess what you actually see them doing, rather than assume that the edit will give you an unbiased version.
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#44 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,892
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Ok, well can you tell me what Sara did on the occasions that I say that she was in the background?
![]() You have to consider, when neither contribution shows up in the edit, nor is it relayed to Lord Sugar by the advisors, you get quite a clear idea. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,018
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Quote:
Then, after Sara was fired, Helene was the star performer of week 9 on Renaissance, coming up with the fantastic pack alongside Claire, and doing a good pitch alongside Claire. I say that Helene was better than Claire though because Claire came up with a name that let the team down.
Are you having a laugh?!?!? Once, for a joke, I wrote down all the words Helene said on that task and, in total, with the exception of the pitch, she says about 8 words. All task. Claire did everything and I mean EVERYTHING on that task, she came up with the brand name, she came up with an actual concept, she tried her best to steer Raef and Michael but they were having none of it. Helene did f*ck all on that task aside from riding Claire's coattails.She was an appalling PM both times as well. On both occasions she say back and did nothing to help struggling teammates when they needed help, preferring to let her teammates drown for boardroom purposes. On both occasions, she delegated the most important part of the task to other people, which worked out well the first time but terribly the second time. Sorry Hown, but I can't remotely see where you're coming from. Helene was very very lucky to get as far as she did IMO. |
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#46 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Ok, well can you tell me what Sara did on the occasions that I say that she was in the background?
![]() You have to consider, when neither contribution shows up in the edit, nor is it relayed to Lord Sugar by the advisors, you get quite a clear idea. And again, we don't know that things weren't brought up by the advisors. We don't see the full extent of their conversations, and the producers edit the programme to show certain candidates in certain lights. |
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#47 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Are you having a laugh?!?!? Once, for a joke, I wrote down all the words Helene said on that task and, in total, with the exception of the pitch, she says about 8 words. All task. Claire did everything and I mean EVERYTHING on that task, she came up with the brand name, she came up with an actual concept, she tried her best to steer Raef and Michael but they were having none of it. Helene did f*ck all on that task aside from riding Claire's coattails.She was an appalling PM both times as well. On both occasions she say back and did nothing to help struggling teammates when they needed help, preferring to let her teammates drown for boardroom purposes. On both occasions, she delegated the most important part of the task to other people, which worked out well the first time but terribly the second time. Sorry Hown, but I can't remotely see where you're coming from. Helene was very very lucky to get as far as she did IMO. |
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#48 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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I absolutely agree with your ladt statement. But what I'm saying is that Sara wasn't a star performer IMO.
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#49 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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I absolutely agree with your ladt statement. But what I'm saying is that Sara wasn't a star performer IMO.
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#50 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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I agree without a doubt, bar Claire, who was honestly in my opinion head and shoulders above the rest.
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Are you having a laugh?!?!? Once, for a joke, I wrote down all the words Helene said on that task and, in total, with the exception of the pitch, she says about 8 words. All task. Claire did everything and I mean EVERYTHING on that task, she came up with the brand name, she came up with an actual concept, she tried her best to steer Raef and Michael but they were having none of it. Helene did f*ck all on that task aside from riding Claire's coattails.