With the proviso the regulations still need further approval so it could still change, I don't think what you are saying about inclusive bundles being wholly UK only works. If Vodafone or any network wanted to do this, then saying "UK" would be the wrong thing to do as it makes it clear charges are being applied for roaming which is what the regulation abolishes.

What can and I think will happen is that some bundles will only allow a certain amount of roaming and in this case it might be accurate to describe the inclusive amount that applies in the UK separately from the inclusive amount that applies when roaming. So I'd forget about unlimited bundles being unlimited when roaming. The regulation allows for this as operators are allowed to set a fair use clause to prevent abuse when roaming. There is still work to be done in deciding how this is to work but it needs to be applied in such a way that


Consequences of this is I think a limit on roaming minutes/texts/MB from the bundle. There could also be potential to limit the number of days you could roam at these rates due to the word "periodically." In any case though if fair use charges are applied, the regulations state the maximum would still be the existing Eurotariff charges.

I do believe all the operators said at the outset that regulation for the few will see higher costs for everyone to make up the lost revenue.

That's the problem with this sort or regulation, the majority who would never roam will now be subsidising the few who will benefit from cheap roaming.

It will be the same for all networks

You know who roams a lot. MEPs.

As others have said, this is another completely misleading thread and should just be ignored.

It's only OUT OF BUNDLE calls that are going up, NOT CONTRACTS.

But why let truth get in the way of a good forum topic eh?

Ok, hopefully someone can help me.

My son just received the following text on his Vodafone contract handset:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68...ps078be5fe.jpg

Now, if I follow the link, it says it doesn't apply to people who are opted in to Euro Traveller (which he is), but it says above (only) people that received the text will have the right to cancel.

If there's an option of getting him out of this contract and away from Vodafone's crappy service, I'll take it!

Thank you.

That's about the reduced roaming rates for the EU, not Vodafone's intention to increase charges.

I got the same from EE/Orange earlier this week. I guess they're all being made to send out texts to people. And of course, the wording is as if the networks are being nice, and not merely being forced into it.

I bet a lot of people fall for that, and will be pleased with their operator for lowering call charges without asking why they only reduce charges when forced to!

Hi Jon,

I think you may have misread the text.

Although it opens with "price reductions coming", it then mentions increases to "out of bundle" items...

Yes, I read it a little too quickly. However, they could send that text to everyone as the first bit applies to all.

You can only leave if your bill, by your regular usage, will raise by more than 10%.

If that were the case he would have text that specifically says so.

The reduction in roaming dies not apply to people with Euro traveller because they don't pay roaming charges.

That's what Vodafone say in the terms, but the legal test under the The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is whether the 10% term is fair. Ofcom previously said in reference to contract price rises that above an RPI increase would likely be materially detrimental to customers, so if your bill is going up by more than RPI due to these huge increases in non inclusive calls then I would refer it to Ofcom.

Ofcom said they are keeping a close eye on non contract price rises and will monitor individual complaints on the subject, remember these are not small increases. You might have expected inflationary rises, but increases of 45% if they make your bill go up by more than RPI will I'm sure be seen by Ofcom as materially detrimental, refer it to them if you believe that is the case, and let them decide.

Honestly I was just trying to help the guy out.

I'm not sure what the deal is with you and Vodafone.

You get on to of com. I'll live my life.

Its not as black and white as you make it out to be. Thine Wonk is quite right in pointing out the other likely legal implications and possible future action by Ofcom.

Oh well if two of you agree then you must be right.

My guess is at Somepoint vodafone sacked them both.

Only explanation I have for their campaign of hate against them.

Don't be so silly, I am criticising a company for increasing out of bundle charges, the charges customers have to pay for the remainder of their contract for 0845, 0800, 0870 calls by a huge percentage while not letting customers out of their contracts. This could increase customer bills by more than RPI, the measure of which Ofcom said was materially detrimental for contracts, and Ofcom also said they are keeping an eye on non bundle price increases as well.

Regardless of what Vodafone put in the contract (a 10% overall increase will allow you to exit your contract), the legal threshold and Ofcom view under the unfair contract terms may be different, I suspect it might be anything above RPI from the rates agreed when the contract was taken out.

I'm not sure why Sethpet is so offended by this opinion that he needs to throw around baseless accusations at contributors, if you disagree post your argument to the contrary of what I'm saying and make your point well.

By RPI since when? when are you measuring against? A year? Since the beginning of your contract? Since the last price rise?

Not me, but those were the Ofcom rules prior to the 'no increases without explicit advisory' chance this year. Even then O2, who has chosen to put explicit price rises in the contract has stuck with RPI as I'm of the opinion that Ofcom and the unfair contract OFT guidance on price increases is that above RPI is potentially unfair.

Yearly is the detail that was given about price rises during your contract, Ofcom didn't rule on out of bundle charges, but said that they will monitor individual complaints. At the time of Ofcom ruling on contract prices, no operator had put out of bundle prices up by so much.

the retail price index is currently 255.7

I think you've misread or misunderstood the rules. yearly makes no sense, it's a completely arbitrary time period. if i'm say 6 moths in to a 2 year contract, why would i care what prices were twelve months ago? under the regime you describe they would have to put up prices every year or they would lose the option to adjust for inflation.

If I signed a 24 month contract, I'd be wanting prices to be fixed for that duration. If the network said no way, I'd not sign. Simple.

That's why I'm on a SIM only contract for 1 year and if it wasn't for the fact that my overall cost for the year is peanuts, I'd have considered the 30 day option. Then when a network wants to bump up all the prices, I'd leave and vote with my feet/wallet.

No Ofcom previously allowed increase up to the RPI rate per year, that was until January where they no longer allow that unless it is stated explicitly in the contract and at point of sale

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ike-guidelines

That was contract rises, when Ofcom ruled on that they also said they would keep an eye on out of bundle prices, they have not made any direction on out of bundle charges, other than that they would monitor individual complaints.

RPI is currently 2.5% as of April 2014 http://www.bbc.com/news/10612209

You don't know what RPI is.

the Retail Price Index is and indexed measure of a basket of goods. it's indexed based to 100 in janurary '87. there has been 156% inflation since then to (2014 APR) 255.7 the figure from 12 moths ago is (2013 APR) 249.5. divide one by the other you get 1.0247. Hence the change in the RPI over the last 12 months is 2.5%

I know perfectly well what the RPI is, and it was used as a benchmark for fair price rises by Ofcom prior to January, based on a prices not being allowed to be increased by more than the RPI rate of inflation in 1 year.

I can't help but think you're being awkward. When you're locked in a contract, non bundled, but popular call charges form part of that deal. If the increase is so big that in 1 year the increase in your bill based on the non bundle calls you make is greater than the RPI, then it could be considered that the contract is unfair.

As a consumer if you have a phone contract, you can't realistically be expected to stop making chargeable calls because some of them have gone up 45% or take out another deal with another provider just to pay the same rate that you originally had out of bundle calls at previously, and still pay the old contract.

Vodafone's test is you paying 10% more than the previous year. I suspect Ofcom might say that anything above inflation as an overall price (contract and non bundle costs) may be considered materially detrimental to the customer (the test they used for letting people out of contracts previously).

Vodafone and o2 for that matter have has the 10% rule for as long as I can remember. 10 years at least.

Until it was banned for being materially detrimental in January, when Ofcom ruled that any increase to the contract price is likely to be materially detrimental. Ofcom excluded out of bundle charges, but said that out of bundle charges are still subject to 'General Condition 9.6'

http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2013/1...t-price-rises/


GC9.6

Material detriment in Ofcom terms is likely to be above the retail price index rate of inflation as an overall fee (contract + out of bundle), however this hasn't been tested yet and we'll have to see if Ofcom responds to any complains about these big increases out of bundle call charges.

Ah, I thought that if you received the text, you were in a "potentially affected" group of people and that by definition, these people would then be allowed to terminate their VF contracts, penalty free.


Ah good point, he does have Euro Traveller I think, but I thought these increased prices were purely for "out of bundle" costs?

For example, if he paid (making these figures up) 10p for something that was outside of his bundled minutes/texts/data today, but will pay 12p for that same thing after June 28th, then the 'free termination' policy kicks in.

Or have I got that completely arse about face!?

It would be perfect timing if we can terminate his VF contract penalty free, as he wants to move to 3 on the One Plan SIM Only, before the unlimited tethering vanishes!