I suggest you read the original EICTA HD Ready spec. It would be impossible for any display to both display 720P50 and 1080i50 (50 fields/second, in either 1440 x 1080i or 1920 x 1080i), there no displays ever made that had a resolution of 1440 x 1080).

None of the broadcast formats mentions the requirement to display the source video in a format where every pixel in the received signal is matched by a pixel on the screen (1:1 transmission to display). That is impossible.

Why you insist on the capability to display at a 1:1 pixel ratio for every source for a bitmapped display is incorrect, A PC can display an image at any size, for a high res image and display at 1:1 requires a very expensive large monitor and a very high spec graphics card.

I have a DSLR that can take 24Mp photos, way beyond the display capability of my laptop with full-HD screen can display at 1:1, You can off course zoom in and display a section of the image at 1:1 (or higher if needed).

Frankly your argument is completely false.

The original BBC-HD test transmissions on satellite were 1440 x 1080, but used a very high bitrate, the pictures were stunning and still are.

Indeed I have, maybe the op should consider Sky for consistent text size.

Methinks GT and Myth may be talking at cross-purposes.

When I were a lad the whole family used to gather around a 12" screen and that was b-i-g in them days!! Talking early 60's here although I see kids on a bus nowadays staring at a 7" (HD?) tablet so have things moved on? Oh, yes, we have colour now.

Anyway - my telly's 32" (1080) these days and I can put my camera video's on it, some are 720 and some 1080, and I genuinely can't tell the difference, so now I do all my recording in 720 to save battery useage and card storage.

And the telly's also used more-or-less for crappy youtube videos, many are sub-standard definition!!

Why would the epg you use make any difference. Sky HD boxes have a HD epg just like Freesat. In fact channels on both platform transmit both epgs on the same transmission. Both platforms use the same source. Why does anyone think that Sky has a different source for the same channels you watch on either platform, ?

Why does anyone think that Sky has any satellites (They rent transponder space from the satellite operators (Eutelsat/Asra SES), just like the UK PSB broadcasters.

For say the BBC Sky provide a epg service, just the same as Freesat does.

As I said there is very little difference between the two formats, I imagine the broadcasters chose to use 1080i simple because 1080 lines sounds better than 720 ignoring the doubled framerate.

A tad off topic, the HD version of BBCiplayer has 720p 25 content that actually looks better than the SD original broadcast. Freeview-HD already has 1080p25 content.

Ermm, that's what I've just said. A TV can only display at it's native resolution.

My argument is not false at all. A HD Ready TV cannot display at 1080i as it simply doesn't have enough pixels to display 1080i.

Anything else you're typing is just masked to provide a longer argument.

The way you explained the Freetime epg implied text was larger when in SD than it is in HD.

Don't recall Sky's EPG acting in this way......

Not true.

I have a Pioneer Kuro that's HD ready and you can display any resolution you want up to 1440 x 768.

If I want to display SD at SD size, then I can do it with black bars. There's nothing that forces it to be scaled this side of setting it to output at 720P.

That would imply the native resolution would be 1440x768, pretty sure Kuros only ran two HD ready resolutions, 1024x768 and 1365x768, neither would be able to dispay 1440x768 pixel resolution.

The distinction needed is what resolution the TV can display physically to what it can accept as a signal input.

Are you referring to 4x3 or are you saying you can switch the scaling off so SD would be viewed in the middle of the screen?

The broadcasters prefers 720p 50 but the TV manufacturing industry preferred 1080 lines because it was bigger ..
... As they have done where they call it 4k ...
An overstatement of the pixels along a line.
Rather than 2160 ....

Because the source material was 1440 Sony HDCAM ....
But they moved to requiring HDCAM SR delivery and moved to 1920 emission as more 1920 displays became available and coders got better.

It was the EBU who decided on 1080i for European HD broadcasting, initial tests of 720P (they did tests of both) by the BBC were a dismal failure, with a number of viewers reporting nausea on the 720P programmes.

But what is your point?, how is an HD Ready TV displaying a better quality HD picture any cause for concern?, or indeed debate.

Any 'problem' is down to cheap poor quality TV's, not the sets native resolution - which is almost completely irrelevant at any sensible viewing distance.

Concern? Problem? Why don't you go back and reread what was actually put. I never said anything about problems. I said it could be confusing saying a HD Ready TV can display 1080i when it actually can't.

You are ADDING to the confusion by putting it like that! Of course an HD Ready TV can display 1080i - just not at full resolution!

Erm so it's not displaying 1080i then is it. Most if not all modern TVs can input at 1080p. Doesn't mean a HD Ready TV is displaying 1080p.

Not true. The text is the same size depending on how large the screen is. A SD epg on a SD Freeview box is larger because they don't put as much information on screen.

If you connect a freetime box by scart to a Full HD TV, the 1920 x 1080 epg overlay is rescaled to 720 x 576, the TV then rescales back to 1920 x 1080 making the text the same size but with very poor definition.

Connected by HDMI the text is the same size as the screen, obviously much smaller on a 22" screen than a 40" one.

The programme information overlay on a freetime box has very small text. It's hard to read on my FULL-HD 40" set at 3M, a 22" one would need binoculars. I have a 19" TV in the kitchen, there's no way you can read this from that sort of distance.

You are the one that's confused.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

Newer sets are now badged HD Ready 1080p, these have 1920 x 1080 displays.

You appear to be deliberately trying to confuse people here?, and certainly doing no good or imparting anything useful. Many HD Ready sets give better pictures than Full HD ones (depending on the relative quality of the sets) - so in effect you are recommending that people should watch poorer pictures, just to keep YOU happy in some bizarre way?.

An HD Ready set will display a high quality 1080i broadcast, that's all a consumer needs to know. Some imaginary and theoretical difference from an Full HD set is of of no interest at all - only picture quality.

How confused are you?

I've not said otherwise about HD Ready sets can give better pictures so I'm really not sure why you keep mentioning it

How am I recommending anything. The very fact you believe I am is the only bizarre thing here.

An HD Ready TV will display it's native resolution (lets say 720p 1280 x 720) so no, an HD Ready TV can't display 1080i 1920 x 1080. It doesn't have enough pixels to do so and you will get no where near the quality that 1080i can deliver. Can it input at 1080i? Well then yes it can just as most now can input at 1080p. It will never display 1080i though as it's impossible.

Somehow though you seem to be putting words in my mouth.

So what are you watching when you watch a SD source ? The original spec stated must be able to display 1080i50 and 720p50 at a minimum vertical resolution of 720 lines. That's a direct quoute from the original EICTA specification, something you insist is impossible. 1080i, 576i 1080p refer to the broadcast standard, not the display. If you watch the iplayer HD service what do think you are watching ?

All the original HD broadcasts were 1080i at 1440 x 1080, (Anamorphic HD), According to your ideas no TV ever made could display anamorphic HD.

You seem to be suggesting that "display" means to output without changing the input. I don't know of any current consumer TVs that can "display" 1080i.

You do also realise that for certain programming (typically fast motion) that 1080i can have as low as 5040 vertical pixels? Whereas 720p will always have 720. Which of 1080i or 720p is better depends upon the data i shown.

You seem to be separating display panels from the rest of the TV set. You can't reasonably do that! For most users of the English language, If an HD Ready TV (say 1024 x 768 like mine) is compatible with a) 1080i or 1080p input signal, it can display it - albeit downscaled at b) 1024 x 768 resolution.

How the TV gets from a) to b) is irrelevant really unless you are a TV designer. It can also display 720p and 576i input signals too - and in the case of 720p, both upscaled and downscaled at the same time. Clever stuff!

AnotherBob
I have a 22" Sony TV with HD, so a practical experiment - Viewing distance less than ~2 metres and you can see the difference with HD, further away > 2 metres and there is no discernable difference.

Simple experiment, simple answer....