[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d'@ve

The main thing they got wrong was the name "HD Ready", which would have been better as "HD 720" or similar.

That would have been complete nonsense, as almost no sets were ever 720.

The HD Ready specification was created to prevent the selling of non-HD sets as HD ones - particularly the Plasma sets of the time (which often weren't even SD resolution), but also a number of very old LCD sets.

It did what it was created for, it's only more recently that people seem to be getting confused about it, particularly over Freeview HD, a system which was never meant to exist - and was only bodged on long after DSO had already been entirely planned.

[d'@ve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

That would have been complete nonsense, as almost no sets were ever 720.

The HD Ready specification was created to prevent the selling of non-HD sets as HD ones - particularly the Plasma sets of the time (which often weren't even SD resolution), but also a number of very old LCD sets.

It did what it was created for, it's only more recently that people seem to be getting confused about it, particularly over Freeview HD, a system which was never meant to exist - and was only bodged on long after DSO had already been entirely planned.

People have always been confused about it and you know that, as a participant in many threads on the subject in years gone by, that often referred to media articles about the confusion. A better name was needed and what better than one that incorporated the minimum vertical resolution required? HD768 (and any others below 1080) could have been added but I don't see that was needed.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d'@ve

That word is 'display, right? If so, I disagree with you, because the spec for HD Ready TVs doesn't claim that sets must display "all the resolution" of a 1080i input. All of the picture area yes, but 720 resolved pixels vertically (one of the designated HD resolutions) at 16:9 aspect ratio is all they are required to display.

The main thing they got wrong was the name "HD Ready", which would have been better as "HD 720" or similar.

The resolution of 1080i/p is 1920 x 1080. If it says it should display 1080i/p then it should have a resolution of 1920 x 1080. If a screen is 1280 x 720 then in no way is it displaying 1080i/p. If something should display in 1080i/p then I would expect 1080i/p quality, not 720. The simpler thing would have been to use the word input and not display.

[d'@ve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

The resolution of 1080i/p is 1920 x 1080. If it says it should display 1080i/p then it should have a resolution of 1920 x 1080. If a screen is 1280 x 720 then in no way is it displaying 1080i/p. If something should display in 1080i/p then I would expect 1080i/p quality, not 720. The simpler thing would have been to use the word input and not display.

They did that, by stipulating that HD Ready sets had to be able to accept an input of 1080i, and display it at 720 'lines' or better. None of that is apparent from the name "HD Ready" though, which is why I think the name was wrong. On its own, "HD Ready" is meaningless (there are/were even 'HD Ready 1080' sets marketed), the industry basically cocked up by using a name that lacked clarity.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d'@ve

People have always been confused about it and you know that, as a participant in many threads on the subject in years gone by, that often referred to media articles about the confusion. A better name was needed and what better than one that incorporated the minimum vertical resolution required? HD768 (and any others below 1080) could have been added but I don't see that was needed.

Nothing more was needed than was done, basically HD Ready and Full HD.

As I've said all through this thread, decent quality HD Ready sets give far better pictures than cheap Full HD ones - so all this emphasis on figures is pointless.

[d'@ve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Nothing more was needed than was done, basically HD Ready and Full HD.

As I've said all through this thread, decent quality HD Ready sets give far better pictures than cheap Full HD ones - so all this emphasis on figures is pointless.

I'm not disputing that, it's one of the reasons why I have an HD Ready plasma. But what they are called is a different matter altogether: HD Ready is far too loose a term for the average viewer and confuses not us, but many of them.

God help them (average viewers) if the industry starts selling "4K Ready", "UHD Ready" or in due course "8K Ready" sets but hopefully, they have learned the lesson on that.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

The resolution of 1080i/p is 1920 x 1080. If it says it should display 1080i/p then it should have a resolution of 1920 x 1080. If a screen is 1280 x 720 then in no way is it displaying 1080i/p. If something should display in 1080i/p then I would expect 1080i/p quality, not 720. The simpler thing would have been to use the word input and not display.

There you go again with this use of "display" though you'll deny it in a few posts time. The fact is that a 1920x1080 panel will not "display" 1080i in the sense you are using, to do that without losing resolution you need an interlaced output - good luck with that nowadays.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

There you go again with this use of "display" though you'll deny it in a few posts time. The fact is that a 1920x1080 panel will not "display" 1080i in the sense you are using, to do that without losing resolution you need an interlaced output - good luck with that nowadays.

There you go again, smoking something.

You're the only one talking about this. I was talking about 1080i/1080p not able to display on HD Ready TVs with a resolution lower than 1920 x 1080.

Actually you are also incorrect. 1080i has a resolution of 1920 x 1080. It will display without losing resolution as the end result of 1080i is always 1920 x 1080.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

There you go again, smoking something.

You're the only one talking about this. I was talking about 1080i/1080p not able to display on HD Ready TVs with a resolution lower than 1920 x 1080.

Of course it will display on any of them. It will not be able to "display" using your definition without losing resolution on any of them as none of them are interlaced.

Quote:

Actually you are also incorrect. 1080i has a resolution of 1920 x 1080. It will display without losing resolution as the end result of 1080i is always 1920 x 1080.

Actually no. Where you are going wrong is not understanding the affects of de-interlacing. Deinterlacing where there is any movement will result in a lowering of resolution so that the result is NOT 1920x1080. Unless you are saying that an SD picture suddenly becomes HD when displayed on an HD display?

If you want to contribute more to this discussion please go and read up on interlacing and it's affects as your ignorance on this subject is making this all very repetitive.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Of course it will display on any of them. It will not be able to "display" using your definition without losing resolution on any of them as none of them are interlaced.



Actually no. Where you are going wrong is not understanding the affects of de-interlacing. Deinterlacing where there is any movement will result in a lowering of resolution so that the result is NOT 1920x1080. Unless you are saying that an SD picture suddenly becomes HD when displayed on an HD display?

If you want to contribute more to this discussion please go and read up on interlacing and it's affects as your ignorance on this subject is making this all very repetitive.

No it won't display. Once you change the thing you are wanting to display, you are not displaying it.

Actually I'm not wrong. The resolution of 1080i is 1920 x 1080. The final out come is 1920 x 1080 regardless of how it is delivered to the screen, so yes it can display.

I don't need to read up on anything. Everything I have said is 100% correct to my original argument.

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

No it won't display. Once you change the thing you are wanting to display, you are not displaying it.

Actually I'm not wrong. The resolution of 1080i is 1920 x 1080. The final out come is 1920 x 1080 regardless of how it is delivered to the screen, so yes it can display.

I don't need to read up on anything. Everything I have said is 100% correct to my original argument.

Your argument is just plain stupid. Dictionary definition

display (dɪˈspleɪ)
vb
1. (tr) to show or make visible

If you can see the broadcast you are displaying it on a video display.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

No it won't display. Once you change the thing you are wanting to display, you are not displaying it.

Actually I'm not wrong. The resolution of 1080i is 1920 x 1080. The final out come is 1920 x 1080 regardless of how it is delivered to the screen, so yes it can display.

I don't need to read up on anything. Everything I have said is 100% correct to my original argument.

The highlighted bit is what you keep saying and using your definition I point out you CANNOT DISPLAY A 1080I SOURCE ON A MODERN PANEL WITHOUT MODIFYING IT AND DEGRADING IT. (This is assuming it's not a progressive source that the TV detects in which case it is progressive anyway not interlaced (it is progressive carried in an interlaced frame) and also that there is some movement).

Well you could display the 1080i signal without modifying it but the result would be dreadful, even a simple line doubling (that halves the vertical resolution to 540) would be better than that.

I repeat you need to read up on interlacing and de-interlacing as you clearly do not understand its ramifications or you would not keep repeating your mistake.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

If you can see the broadcast you are displaying it on a video display.

He has his own special definition in Mythicaese where if the picture is modified it is not displayed. However even with his definition his argument is incorrect as a 1080i signal (from an interlaced source) cannot be displayed on a panel without modification unless you want a horrible result.

[d'@ve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

If you can see the broadcast you are displaying it on a video display.

That's the point I've been trying to make, too... even if it's upscaled, downscaled or "stretched" it's still displayed as long as viewers can watch the programme.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Your argument is just plain stupid. Dictionary definition

display (dɪˈspleɪ)
vb
1. (tr) to show or make visible

If you can see the broadcast you are displaying it on a video display.

And you are not showing or making visible 1920 x 1080. Thank you and point proven.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

The highlighted bit is what you keep saying and using your definition I point out you CANNOT DISPLAY A 1080I SOURCE ON A MODERN PANEL WITHOUT MODIFYING IT AND DEGRADING IT. (This is assuming it's not a progressive source that the TV detects in which case it is progressive anyway not interlaced (it is progressive carried in an interlaced frame) and also that there is some movement).

Well you could display the 1080i signal without modifying it but the result would be dreadful, even a simple line doubling (that halves the vertical resolution to 540) would be better than that.

I repeat you need to read up on interlacing and de-interlacing as you clearly do not understand its ramifications or you would not keep repeating your mistake.

The end result is 1920 x 1080, so yes you can display it. There is no way getting away from that fact.

I'll repeat, no I don't.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

He has his own special definition in Mythicaese where if the picture is modified it is not displayed. However even with his definition his argument is incorrect as a 1080i signal (from an interlaced source) cannot be displayed on a panel without modification unless you want a horrible result.

Erm no.

An HD Ready TV say 1280 x 720 cannot display at 1080i/p. It doesn't have enough pixels to do this.

A Full HD TV has enough pixels to display 1080i/p. How they are delivered to the screen is irrelevant to the argument.

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

Erm no.

An HD Ready TV say 1280 x 720 cannot display at 1080i/p. It doesn't have enough pixels to do this.

A Full HD TV has enough pixels to display 1080i/p. How they are delivered to the screen is irrelevant to the argument.

You seem to be over thinking the word display....

Of course a HD ready TV (1366x768) can not display at 1080, but it can accept /display that signal, even though the image will be downscaled, you are still watching a 1080 broadcast, its just that you cant see every line from that particular broadcast.

Just press the info button on a HD ready TV and it will display what is being input and what you are watching, ie. For Sky movies HD it will be 1080i @ 50Hz.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

The end result is 1920 x 1080, so yes you can display it. There is no way getting away from that fact.

I'll repeat, no I don't.

Really? So if the process took the information down to 1 pixel and then upscaled to filled the screen ( a solid mass of one colour) then that would still be displaying 1080i because the result is still 1920x1080? Interesting point of view but not one I share.

Of course using your logic then SD upscaled is the same as HD because the result is 1920x1080 never mind what happened in between.

[d'@ve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

Erm no.

An HD Ready TV say 1280 x 720 cannot display at 1080i/p. It doesn't have enough pixels to do this.

A Full HD TV has enough pixels to display 1080i/p. How they are delivered to the screen is irrelevant to the argument.

As Deacon1972 said, the key is that little qualifier you sometimes add... at.

Of course an HD Ready 720/768 screen cannot display at 1080... but it can certainly display a 1080 input. It displays it at 720/768.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica

Erm no.

An HD Ready TV say 1280 x 720 cannot display at 1080i/p. It doesn't have enough pixels to do this.

And a 1920x1080 display cannot display at 1080i because modern panels are not interlaced. You keep ignoring this point, almost certainly because you don't understand how de-interlacing works.

Since you say you know how de-interlacing works please explain how it works so we can see that 1080i is being displayed. (displayed by your definition).

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

You seem to be over thinking the word display....

Of course a HD ready TV (1366x768) can not display at 1080, but it can accept /display that signal, even though the image will be downscaled, you are still watching a 1080 broadcast, its just that you cant see every line from that particular broadcast.

Just press the info button on a HD ready TV and it will display what is being input and what you are watching, ie. For Sky movies HD it will be 1080i @ 50Hz.

No I'm not. That is what the word means. If you change the thing you are displaying then you fail to be displaying the original thing. If you press the info button, it shows what you are inputting, not displaying. That's what it should be. The use of the word displaying is wrong.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Really? So if the process took the information down to 1 pixel and then upscaled to filled the screen ( a solid mass of one colour) then that would still be displaying 1080i because the result is still 1920x1080? Interesting point of view but not one I share.

Of course using your logic then SD upscaled is the same as HD because the result is 1920x1080 never mind what happened in between.

No that's using your logic not mine.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d'@ve

As Deacon1972 said, the key is that little qualifier you sometimes add... at.

Of course an HD Ready 720/768 screen cannot display at 1080... but it can certainly display a 1080 input. It displays it at 720/768.

So then it fails to be 1080 hence you aren't displaying 1080. The only thing you are doing is inputting at 1080.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

And a 1920x1080 display cannot display at 1080i because modern panels are not interlaced. You keep ignoring this point, almost certainly because you don't understand how de-interlacing works.

Since you say you know how de-interlacing works please explain how it works so we can see that 1080i is being displayed. (displayed by your definition).

1080i has a resolution of 1920 x 1080. A full-HD TV has a resolution of 1920 x 1080. It can display 1920 x 1080 pixels.