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First Doctor Appreciation Thread
Janus_Mars
09-06-2014
Thought I might start up a thread on this, as there doesn't seem to be that much happening on here at the moment. Have recently been watching the old Dr Who's, ever since the 50th in fact, with the intention of watching the whole series. I'm actually still only halfway though the first Doctor's run, as I've been distracted by other stuff like Buffy, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad etc, as well as, ya know, work. I'm not to fussed however, cos William Hartnell's Doctor is really good. Although the first Who I ever watched was the classics, the only ones of Hartnell's I really remembered were an Unearthly Child and the Daleks, and although I knew he was supposed to lighten up a bit later on, and didn't stay as a grumpy old granddad forever, I've been really surprised by how light hearted, funny, and well, childish he is. Matt Smith has talked about how his main inspiration was Patrick Troughton, and I remember someone on here saying how modern Dr Who really started with his Doctor, but I've gotta say, you really can see elements of absolutely EVERY single Doctor in Hartnell's, there's the comedian, the big kid, the mysterious manipulating alien, the old man, even the romantic.

He's had some magnificent scenes so far, such as when him and Ian bumo into each other when backing away in the Sensorites, and his picturing of a bicycle in the Space Museum. The first Doctor seems like a very warm hearted individual, and whenever he's onscreen he often comes across as the cleverest person in the room, which I think is important for a Doctor. He's quickly become one of my favourites, and was just wondering what the general consensus was on his Doctor among the people on here etc...
doublefour
09-06-2014
Interesting that you think an aspect of every doctor is in his performance. Yes with some elements more than others, humour yes but it isn't an era particularly overflowing with it, but there is undoubtedly humour in his portrayal. I always find his own humour impish and odd not without a bit of sarcasm around the edges.
I think he did lighten up as time went on, and as an actor he relished this considering his previous roles he had. You can tell he was enjoying this aspect of the character.
The warm hearted moments were always my favourite with the First Doctor, when he would comfort one of his companions or someone in the story.
Grumpy and challenging to any that stood in his way are still what I remember him for, I remember him with Ian and Barbara in The Unearthly Child particularly. He was strong and forthright, which set him up as this moral force I think, that stood up and made decisions in situations he encountered.
My absolute best moment is his heart wrenching decision on his part to say farewell to Susan in The Dalek Invasion of Earth. His best dialogue superbly delivered as well.
Jethryk
09-06-2014
Originally Posted by Janus_Mars:
“Thought I might start up a thread on this, as there doesn't seem to be that much happening on here at the moment. Have recently been watching the old Dr Who's, ever since the 50th in fact, with the intention of watching the whole series. I'm actually still only halfway though the first Doctor's run, as I've been distracted by other stuff like Buffy, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad etc, as well as, ya know, work. I'm not to fussed however, cos William Hartnell's Doctor is really good. Although the first Who I ever watched was the classics, the only ones of Hartnell's I really remembered were an Unearthly Child and the Daleks, and although I knew he was supposed to lighten up a bit later on, and didn't stay as a grumpy old granddad forever, I've been really surprised by how light hearted, funny, and well, childish he is. Matt Smith has talked about how his main inspiration was Patrick Troughton, and I remember someone on here saying how modern Dr Who really started with his Doctor, but I've gotta say, you really can see elements of absolutely EVERY single Doctor in Hartnell's, there's the comedian, the big kid, the mysterious manipulating alien, the old man, even the romantic.

He's had some magnificent scenes so far, such as when him and Ian bumo into each other when backing away in the Sensorites, and his picturing of a bicycle in the Space Museum. The first Doctor seems like a very warm hearted individual, and whenever he's onscreen he often comes across as the cleverest person in the room, which I think is important for a Doctor. He's quickly become one of my favourites, and was just wondering what the general consensus was on his Doctor among the people on here etc... ”


It was Daveyboy but he was wrong, to be fair he did to admit to phrasing it wrong.

Think he is rather overlooked and too much credit is given to Troughton (who is also brilliant) and taken away from Hartnell for the success and longevity of the programme.

For me the casting of the first 4 Doctors are close to perfection.
Jethryk
09-06-2014
Originally Posted by doublefour:
“Interesting that you think an aspect of every doctor is in his performance. Yes with some elements more than others, humour yes but it isn't an era particularly overflowing with it, but there is undoubtedly humour in his portrayal. I always find his own humour impish and odd not without a bit of sarcasm around the edges.
I think he did lighten up as time went on, and as an actor he relished this considering his previous roles he had. You can tell he was enjoying this aspect of the character.
The warm hearted moments were always my favourite with the First Doctor, when he would comfort one of his companions or someone in the story.
Grumpy and challenging to any that stood in his way are still what I remember him for, I remember him with Ian and Barbara in The Unearthly Child particularly. He was strong and forthright, which set him up as this moral force I think, that stood up and made decisions in situations he encountered.
My absolute best moment is his heart wrenching decision on his part to say farewell to Susan in The Dalek Invasion of Earth. His best dialogue superbly delivered as well.”

Hartnell's defining moment and would certainly be in my top 10 favourite moments in Doctor Who history.
Michael_Eve
09-06-2014
I think he's brilliant. I know they didn't have terms like 'Arc' back then, but as he gets to know and trust Ian and Barbara in that first year, we see a progression from a remote, rather stern figure to someone who can show affection and humour. There was always a marvellous edge to him, but by the time of TDIOE (and I agree about THAT scene with Susan at the end) he is absolutely the hero, albeit in an 'older' form. He's wonderfully kind, brave and funny in The Rescue...and he remains marvellous up until the end.

Back in the day, when I was seeing older stories for the first time, I didn't bother that much with this era and other fans used to be rather disparaging about his 'billy fluffs', but it can often just adds to the charm, I think. You are really seeing actors think on their feet!

When buying the official releases, I just became more enamoured of the era and Hartnell's Doctor. Troughton is brilliant, and I cheat a bit by having them joint Fourth on my personal list, but for sheer variety and breadth of imagination and bravado considering the production limitations of the time, I favour the first Doctor's era.

Not surprisingly, I found AAISAT gripping and quite emotional.

To summarise....Hartnell, the ORIGINAL, you might say; a favourite.
doublefour
09-06-2014
Watching AAISAT I hadn't appreciated fully the extent to which William Hartnell was having difficulty with some of his lines. I was really pleased with the profile uplift that programme gave the First Doctor.
Whenever I saw a line fluff in earlier Doctor Who stories I was always one that accepted that was due to the filming restrictions of the time. So was never really bothered by any of it.
The Time Meddler I think was my favourite Hartnell story, for his acting yes but just loved the feel of it, watching it felt as if you were there. You cannot always say that with some of the backdrops or sets they used.
daveyboy7472
09-06-2014
Originally Posted by Jethryk:
“It was Daveyboy but he was wrong, to be fair he did to admit to phrasing it wrong.

Think he is rather overlooked and too much credit is given to Troughton (who is also brilliant) and taken away from Hartnell for the success and longevity of the programme.

For me the casting of the first 4 Doctors are close to perfection.”

Yes, I did phrase it wrong. I was trying to point out at the time that a lot of stuff that we know today originated from Troughton's Era more than Hartnell's, and yes, Troughton does deserve credit of establishing the 'New Doctor.' thing and making it successful, which is his legacy to the show.

However, it was Hartnell who established the character in the first place and it annoys the hell out of me that today's image obsessed modern audience can't accept the fact the Doctor can be anything more than Tennant or Smith's age and that an older Doctor is unacceptable, something I hope Capaldi's casting will address.

It also annoys me people can't be bothered to check out the First Doctor because he is perceived as being old and grumpy. Old he may have been but as has already been stated he could be funny, amusing, eccentric and only stern when he had to be. You only have to watch The Romans to see Hartnell's more comedic side and the scene in The Space Museum where he hides inside a Dalek and has some fun and the aforementioned bicycle scene from the same story to appreciate there is more than this Doctor than meets the eye. The fluffs, rather than being annoying, are endearing and if you didn't know they were fluffs you could quite easily accept it as being part of the First Doctor's character due to his age.

Much as I loathe The Web Planet, it is Hartnell's performance that stops it from being a total wreck, especially in the opening episode where he has a good banter with Ian and his tie and his general bumbling and high pitched chuckles when first investigating the planet's surface are so great to watch.

A lot of later Doctor's drew inspiration from his Doctor. I always liked how Davison could get cross like him, as did Colin Baker and McCoy certainly brought back a lot of the mystery from the early days for his second two Seasons.

It's great to see a thread like this giving the First Doctor some appreciation. His Doctor never fares well on this forum. I'm always for giving the more unpopular Doctors some 'airtime' and battle against the myths and perceptions that they have. I would urge anyone who has yet to watch him to seriously give it a try. then you may think differently about him once you have.

daveyboy7472
10-06-2014
Originally Posted by daveyboy7472:
“Yes, I did phrase it wrong. I was trying to point out at the time that a lot of stuff that we know today originated from Troughton's Era more than Hartnell's, and yes, Troughton does deserve credit of establishing the 'New Doctor.' thing and making it successful, which is his legacy to the show.

However, it was Hartnell who established the character in the first place and it annoys the hell out of me that today's image obsessed modern audience can't accept the fact the Doctor can be anything more than Tennant or Smith's age and that an older Doctor is unacceptable, something I hope Capaldi's casting will address.

It also annoys me people can't be bothered to check out the First Doctor because he is perceived as being old and grumpy. Old he may have been but as has already been stated he could be funny, amusing, eccentric and only stern when he had to be. You only have to watch The Romans to see Hartnell's more comedic side and the scene in The Space Museum where he hides inside a Dalek and has some fun and the aforementioned bicycle scene from the same story to appreciate there is more than this Doctor than meets the eye. The fluffs, rather than being annoying, are endearing and if you didn't know they were fluffs you could quite easily accept it as being part of the First Doctor's character due to his age.

Much as I loathe The Web Planet, it is Hartnell's performance that stops it from being a total wreck, especially in the opening episode where he has a good banter with Ian and his tie and his general bumbling and high pitched chuckles when first investigating the planet's surface are so great to watch.

A lot of later Doctor's drew inspiration from his Doctor. I always liked how Davison could get cross like him, as did Colin Baker and McCoy certainly brought back a lot of the mystery from the early days for his second two Seasons.

It's great to see a thread like this giving the First Doctor some appreciation. His Doctor never fares well on this forum. I'm always for giving the more unpopular Doctors some 'airtime' and battle against the myths and perceptions that they have. I would urge anyone who has yet to watch him to seriously give it a try. then you may think differently about him once you have.

”

I rest my case really!

I'm really curious as to why Hartnell gets so little attention on here. Even threads about Matt Smiths hair get more posts than this!

Is it because so few people have seen his Doctor, a general dislike of his Doctor or something else?

I know this is an appreciation thread so don't want to spoil the positivity about his Doctor that the OP has provided but it amazes me how badly threads about the First Doctor never seem to last long on here. I'm curious to know why, and hopefully provide some debate as well in the process.

The_Judge_
10-06-2014
I never appreciated Hartnell until I decided to watch his available episodes last year. Huge respect, very believable, very entertaining, love his portrayal
Face Of Jack
11-06-2014
I'm an admirer or William Hartnell. I was born in 1960 - so I only vaguely remember his stories in a haze....that's why I count Patrick as My Doctor! But I've watched a lot of his stories since - and they DO bring back certain memories!
I was watching Keys of Marinus the other afternoon - and I noticed how he had changed from that grumpy old man into a rather adventurous and cheeky character - still had the arrogance when he wanted to be though! And this was only about five stories in I believe. So he wasn't that way for long was he?
I love his fluffed lines! I think the rest of the cast did too - and they just played along with it (sometimes you can see on their faces!!!) [TOO COSTLY TO GO BACK AND RE-FILM} Heaven Forbid! He was the stereotype forgetful professor in this case!!
That's how I see it.
I've still got a lot of his DVD's to purchase....The Gunfighters, The War Machine...ummm is it Galaxy Four that was said to be out??
CoalHillJanitor
11-06-2014
Originally Posted by Face Of Jack:
“..ummm is it Galaxy Four that was said to be out??”

Last I heard the main rumour was Marco Polo had been found, but still no confirmation.

I agree with all the positive comments about Hartnell. The Doctors are all contained within his portrayal in some embryonic fashion, as Russell T Davies pointed out five years ago.
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