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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


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Old 07-04-2015, 17:28
RichmondBlue
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We remain a team that's still 5 or 6 players short of where we need to be and could be.
Everyone has to be happy with a league and cup double!
However, this season has been a well below par one in terms of quality at the top. We have been the best of a very moderate bunch and that was proven in our clubs dismal performances in the CL.
One good signing in Costa, without whoom we might well have been struggling for a top four finish. There are several players who need to go and big question marks against a few more. Even our keeper makes errors of the kind Cech never made in his prime.
I can't believe anyone can still think there should be a place in the team next season for William, Ramirez or Oscar. Those three simply must go if we are to improve!
William and Ramirez ?..at least get the spelling right if you're going to slag-off our players.
It's all subjective unless you're going to use some of those absurd stats that people seem so fond of these days. I think Willian has had a very good season, the goals and assists may not show that, but he's done precisely the job we (and Jose) wanted from him.
Oscar has been very inconsistent, I'll grant you that. But he hasn't become a poor player overnight, and we know from past performances that he is a class act. Ozil has only just started putting in a few decent performances at Arsenal, but nobody could deny that he's a quality player.
I'm inclined to agree with you about Ramires. He was terrific for us a couple of seasons ago, but unless he's carrying an injury his energy levels don't seem to the same as they used to be. If his energy is on the wane, the rest of his game is just not good enough to warrant a place. So maybe he should be moved on.
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Old 07-04-2015, 18:26
The_don1
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If we manage to do a league and cup double, you have to say that we are exceeding expectations.

No team can expect to win the league now, those days are long gone. The competition between the current top 4 is far too fierce, the best you can hope for is "in the running".
The title was always the main concern for me.

We needed to be in the running again since we have not been for a while now and another season out of the running I think would have been fatal.

I expect us to do well in both domestic cups every season just due to the investment we have made and the fact that until the later stages the top clubs dismiss them. We have always taken the domestic clubs seriously.

For me the minimum we needed to achieve this season was a real crack at the title and a domestic cup final, That's with the normal twist and turns of a season with the standard "bad luck" that comes along in a season. We have achieved that. But getting to the minimum is something we should accept. The resources we have means that's no longer acceptable. Like when we won the Champions League (64 points is totally unacceptable no matter what cups we win), Yes that was fantastic and amazing but finishing outside the top 4 meant that season was unacceptable so was the season after that to some extent. Jose first season back from memory was our highest points total by a good amount for awhile so was a massive step forward.

That's a low bench mark considering the players and the manager we have and the pretty standard levels currently in the domestic game. What I expected from this season if things went okish was the title and a domestic cup final.

Liverpool was not on the radar for me for the top 4. They did nothing to put right the errors that cost them valuable points, Arsenal and Utd worried me, I rate LVG and thought when he got them in shape they would be where we was last season, not a threat for the title but the team that would setting the cat amongst the pigeons and making life complicated for teams trying for the top 4, City are CIty.

If after all this time we are saying that by winning the title we are exceeding expectations then we have got more serious problems then I thought.

While yes you only expect to be in the running in any league we should still be expecting to win it, Its the level we are at now.

Achieving the minimum for a club like Chelsea cannot be allowed to become acceptable, I think that's been Arsenal's problem these last few seasons. Its become acceptable to the club and the fans.
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Old 07-04-2015, 19:02
The_don1
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Are Willian or Ramires the best players around? Of course not.

But at the moment we need them to do a job. Which they do.

With FFP and us not having a big enough ground to generate extra funds we cannot just go out and buy the best players in those roles any more (and nor should we).

There has been more important roles we needed to spend the cash on and needed to spend out time on. Its a work in progress. We have to be very frugal with how we spend the money we have and prioritise what we do with it.

A Costa,Matic,Cesc type player was 1,2 and 3 on the list they were crucial as without them we had no chance what so ever.

Can we improve on Willian and Ramires? Of course but there has to be "value for money". Is it worth spending 100m on replacements for them? Plus wages No not in a million years that would be a return to the chucking the money around just for the pure hell of it days and did not work then and would not work then.

Even spending 50m on players of a slight improvement has got to be looked at very very carefully as again we have more important concern's Defence for one (JT wont last for ever) and getting leadership on the pitch as without JT it's something we are lacking.

They serve a purpose at the moment, You know they will do a job when asked, They don't cause any problems when on the bench and their resale value wont be that much difference to what we paid for them
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Old 07-04-2015, 19:22
RichmondBlue
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The PL is always the benchmark for me. All the cup competitions carry a degree of luck, even the CL. I will never forget our Champion's League win, but that's more for the incredible guts and determination we showed rather than any belief that we were the "best" team in Europe that year. Next time we win it, I want to see us do it with some style, hopefully with the PL title already in the bag.
I think we've done ok this season, unless we throw it all away in the remaining 8 games. I thought Man City would be our main rivals due to the depth in their squad. Arsenal being Arsenal, I didn't expect them to present much of a challenge. Man Utd hadn't done much to rectify their defensive problems, so I didn't expect a serious challenge from them until next season.
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Old 07-04-2015, 19:29
The_don1
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We was not even the best team in the final that night but as you said the determination we had throughout was fantastic to see.

I am confident we will do it again and be good enough to be winning the league in the same season. Next season? Highly unlikely (but possible).
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Old 07-04-2015, 22:37
Jokanovic
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We remain a team that's still 5 or 6 players short of where we need to be and could be.
Everyone has to be happy with a league and cup double!
However, this season has been a well below par one in terms of quality at the top. We have been the best of a very moderate bunch and that was proven in our clubs dismal performances in the CL.
One good signing in Costa, without whoom we might well have been struggling for a top four finish. There are several players who need to go and big question marks against a few more. Even our keeper makes errors of the kind Cech never made in his prime.
I can't believe anyone can still think there should be a place in the team next season for William, Ramirez or Oscar. Those three simply must go if we are to improve!
Blimey, we are top of the league yet still need 5 or 6 more players. Where does that leave the rest ?
I guess it means Liverpool must need a complete new team
For an "old" school Chelsea fan that you say you are, you are incredibly demanding and tend to have lost sight of your roots.
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Old 08-04-2015, 13:32
Dixon
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Blimey, we are top of the league yet still need 5 or 6 more players. Where does that leave the rest ?
I guess it means Liverpool must need a complete new team
For an "old" school Chelsea fan that you say you are, you are incredibly demanding and tend to have lost sight of your roots.
I don't see it as demanding.

The great Liverpool and Utd teams always looked to improve no matter what they'd won that season. We should do the same and start by clearing out those who've not produced.
We have 'got by' largely because of the very moderate quality of the other top teams.We cannot afford to go into another season with everything resting on Hazzard and Costa to win us games! The woeful lack of 'end product' from William and Oscar would have cost us bigtime if the others were anything like they used to be.
Cahill has gone backwards.
Ivanovich is better at attacking than defending.
Question marks against Fabregas.
If we want to be a great team again these areas of the team need to be looke at.
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Old 08-04-2015, 13:43
Dixon
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[quote=RichmondBlue;77614034]
It's all subjective unless you're going to use some of those absurd stats that people seem so fond of these days. I think Willian has had a very good season, the goals and assists may not show that, but he's done precisely the job we (and Jose) QUOTE]

Some of the stats they come up with these days are meaningless nonsense that the Americans love to use for their sports.
However, certain stats to matter. William can do all the running he wants. At the end of the day he is and always has been woefully short on goals and assists! We should anyone accept that just because he runs a lot and works hard?
Would we put up with Costa if he scored 8 goals a season but ran his ass off?
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Old 08-04-2015, 15:45
codeblue
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However, certain stats to matter. William can do all the running he wants. At the end of the day he is and always has been woefully short on goals and assists! We should anyone accept that just because he runs a lot and works hard?
Would we put up with Costa if he scored 8 goals a season but ran his ass off?
No stats should be used in isolation

It you take a look at what willian has had to do this season, he has had to cover for the marauding of Ivanovic. It was Willian who tracked back to cover him, and has got us out of numerous scrapes this season.

Cahill has been exposed by this. When you say that he has "gone backwards" is os not because his skill level has dropped, the cause was because Ivanovic has not been defending properly. Hardly Cahills fault.
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Old 08-04-2015, 16:27
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For the statistics lovers:

Our 63 goals are the joint most in the division, and our goal difference of +37 is the highest.

No player has scored more goals in England’s top flight than Diego Costa. He has 19 for the season in 24 appearances. Harry Kane’s 19 goals have come in 27 appearances.

Eden Hazard (86) and Cesc Fabregas (79) have created the most chances in the Premier League. Fabregas has 16 assists to this name from those chances created, six more than the next highest player.

The Spanish midfielder has also completed more passes than anyone else (1899). Nemanja Matic and Hazard are third and fourth respectively.

Hazard has completed 144 take-ons in the Premier League this season, comfortably clear of Arsenal’s Alexis Sanchez who has 98.

Hazard is also the most fouled player in the division. He has been illegally halted in his tracks 92 times at an average of over three times per game.

We have won more Premier League games than anybody else (21) and we have also lost the fewest (two).

Our 14-game unbeaten run at the start of the season is the longest made by any team in the Premier League this term.

We are currently unbeaten in 10 league games. No other team can match that for a current unbeaten run.

No team can match the six goals we scored in a single away game, against Everton back in August.

We are the only team in England’s top four divisions to have not lost a home league match this season.
http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest...and-facts.html

Those Hazard stats are unbelievable.
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Old 08-04-2015, 16:41
RichmondBlue
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[quote=Dixon;77623714]
It's all subjective unless you're going to use some of those absurd stats that people seem so fond of these days. I think Willian has had a very good season, the goals and assists may not show that, but he's done precisely the job we (and Jose) QUOTE]

Some of the stats they come up with these days are meaningless nonsense that the Americans love to use for their sports.
However, certain stats to matter. William can do all the running he wants. At the end of the day he is and always has been woefully short on goals and assists! We should anyone accept that just because he runs a lot and works hard?
Would we put up with Costa if he scored 8 goals a season but ran his ass off?
As codeblue says, it all depends on what job you are expecting a player to do. Jose clearly expects Willian to track back and provide cover, he can't depend on the defensive qualities of Fabregas and Ivanovic likes to get foward at every opportunity.
Oscar and Willian are also the key exponents if we are trying to play a high pressing game. Hazard and Costa do their bit of course, but we don't really want them to run themselves ragged closing the opposition down.
Playing a different system, with a more defensive midfielder alongside Matic, you might have a point. We could then use a more attacking winger who posed more of a goal threat. But then you would have to decide on who would make the better playmaker in the no 10 role. Fabregas, Oscar and Willian all bring something different to the table. Then we have Caudrado..frankly I'm puzzled why we bought him, but only time will tell.
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:47
Jokanovic
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I don't see it as demanding.

The great Liverpool and Utd teams always looked to improve no matter what they'd won that season. We should do the same and start by clearing out those who've not produced.
We have 'got by' largely because of the very moderate quality of the other top teams.We cannot afford to go into another season with everything resting on Hazzard and Costa to win us games! The woeful lack of 'end product' from William and Oscar would have cost us bigtime if the others were anything like they used to be.
Cahill has gone backwards.
Ivanovich is better at attacking than defending.
Question marks against Fabregas.
If we want to be a great team again these areas of the team need to be looke at.
Well Chesea has improved from last season and it's not their fault that teams like Liverpool have gone backwards. They are an example of bringing in numerous players at one go and it fails.
I agree that you have to continue to change every season but not by the number you suggest.
Mind you, weren't you complaining not long ago that we don't give youngsters a go yet now you want 5 or 6 new players ??
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:29
roddydogs
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Remy out ?
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:35
The_don1
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Yea heard he injured
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:43
codeblue
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Ref mariner clearly doesn't know the rules. Green picks up a back pass and the ref ignores it!
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:47
RichmondBlue
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This is going to be poor to watch. Horrible club, horrible ground and horrible fans. Just have to get the three points any way we can.
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:55
The_don1
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This is going to be poor to watch. Horrible club, horrible ground and horrible fans. Just have to get the three points any way we can.
Yep they are really a "special" set of fans.

Us not hating them as much as they hate us also seems to really annoy them as well.

They struggle with the fact that they really don't appear on our radar when it comes to disliking other clubs
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:55
codeblue
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This is going to be poor to watch. Horrible club, horrible ground and horrible fans. Just have to get the three points any way we can.
Just continued abuse from their fans, a small, tight crappy pitch will make this a horrible game.

Cannot wait for them to go down
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Old 12-04-2015, 14:19
roddydogs
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Dosent help that were pretty rubbish so far.
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Old 12-04-2015, 14:22
RichmondBlue
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Not much to show for our possession in the first half, not a single shot on target. There doesn't seem to be much on the bench that would be likely to change things, I wonder if Jose would dare to risk Izzy Brown up front ?
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Old 12-04-2015, 14:24
The_don1
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Performances wont get us the points needed at this point of the season with the teams we have left to play.

Its going to be fitness and intellect that gets us the points we need.

We try and go all guns blazing against teams like QPR and they will likely land a lucky punch.

We need to make them show us all they have got and then we take the one chance we need to finish them off
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Old 12-04-2015, 14:31
RichmondBlue
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Performances wont get us the points needed at this point of the season with the teams we have left to play.

Its going to be fitness and intellect that gets us the points we need.

We try and go all guns blazing against teams like QPR and they will likely land a lucky punch.

We need to make them show us all they have got and then we take the one chance we need to finish them off
True, but their "route one" approach to Austin and Zamora up front is causing us more problems than we've so far manged to give them.
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Old 12-04-2015, 14:41
The_don1
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True, but their "route one" approach to Austin and Zamora up front is causing us more problems than we've so far manged to give them.
That's pretty normal when relegation teams face "top" teams at their place.

We just need to keep doing our thing in these type of games. While it wont always work it will work more often then not

First halfway we was sucked into their game.
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Old 12-04-2015, 15:15
JSemple3
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Seems like it's been a very lucky late win indeed
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Old 12-04-2015, 15:15
roddydogs
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Now hold on!
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