DS Forums

 
 

Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27-04-2015, 17:44
ArmchairDieHard
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 244
And yet as some write in this forum, he is "far from world class".

I have absolutely no doubt, that if the PFa team was made up of the best players from all the other clubs combined, chelsea would beat them.

And yet we do not deserve to win the league apparently.

This year has been a great year for hazard, winning the pfa and hopefully about to win the league (after also winning the cup). It will help gel all of our players together.

The season has only had one major problem for me, selling schurrle for cudrado.
I wouldn't go that far
ArmchairDieHard is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 27-04-2015, 19:01
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,811
Leaving Hazard to one side, a player doesn't have to quite be at Messi or Ronaldo's level to be "World Class". If that was the case those two would pretty much be regarded as the only two World Class players that have ever played the game. They're almost freaks. What about goalkeepers, defenders, central midfielders etc? Can none of these be considered World Class in their respective positions then?

For the record I think World Class is an overused expression too, but you're looking at it far too narrowly if you believe those two are the only players it applies to. Bayern don't have any World Class players then, for example?
I agree with you on this one. I have no idea what "world class" means to be honest, never have done. I used to think it meant the players you would put in a "world XI", but even that doesn't make much sense because so many top players would be left out if there was more competition for a place in their natural position, and lesser players in other positions were being chosen. I think we all know what our own definition of world class means, even if it's difficult to put it into words.

But I do think there's room for more players to be considered "world class" than just Messi and Ronaldo. When Maradona was in his prime we didn't just ignore all his contemporaries, we just acknowledged that he was extra special, the best of the best.
I think it's the same with Messi and Ronaldo, they are two of the best players of all time. Perhaps they belong in a different catagory, all-time greats or something ? But I do think we can open the world class catagory to include the best of the rest.
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 19:06
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
I wouldn't go that far
Maybe not but it also would not be surprising.

De Gea would be keeper but who would make up the defence?

If you went for worst team of the weekend alone. I would not be that shocked to many of the places filled by many players who play for the "big clubs".

Southampton are tied for the best defence with Chelsea with everyone else quite far behind.

Yes if they played to their ability it would be a hell of a game but who has really done that this season? I think we have played very well in parts of this season,Ok in some and not that bad in the rest but to have 6 players in the team is not a ringing endorsement of the league this season.

Cahill was a shocker for me to be in the team of the season as I don't think he has been anywhere near his previous levels (for an number of reasons) don't get me wrong he has played well but if he can get in there I have to say it says a lot about the levels of everyone else.

I am not saying Chelsea would win but it would be a very close game and a result for Chelsea would not be a massive shock for me.
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 20:32
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,811
The biggest surprise to me in the PFA team of the year was the omission of Azpil and Fabregas. Bertrand has had a decent season, and Coutinho has finished the season well, but neither has matched the overall contribution of our two..in my opinion. I would have thought David Silva would have been in contention as well, Man City may have blown their chances but he had some great games.
No place for Aguero either, he would have been in my team despite the goal scoring feats of young Kane. Ivanovich has made a few mistakes, but I think he just about edges it over Clyne or Zabaleta. I agree with you about Cahill, a few top notch performances (like yesterday) but he's also had a few shockers. As you say, there's no outstanding competition for the other CB position with Kompany having a poor season..Fonte of Southamton perhaps ?
Still, I wonder how many players give it as much thought as we do ?
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 20:48
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
Good to see Roman at the game tonight
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2015, 23:05
Jokanovic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,657
Youth Cup winners again. Our set-up is incredibly strong.
Jokanovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 12:35
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
JT is just tremendous.

He has played all games in the league so far this season, and has only committed 10 fouls.

Thats "fouls", not yellow cards!
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 17:27
Dixon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
JT is just tremendous.

He has played all games in the league so far this season, and has only committed 10 fouls.

Thats "fouls", not yellow cards!
He never relied on pace, so age hasn't effected him the way it did with Ferdinand. Once his pace went he was nowhere near as good.

Speaking of JT. He's been honest enough to admit that Chelsea's football this year has been forgetable.

With Jose going 2 seasons without a trophy and Chelsea not winning the title in a while I can see why it was important to win a big one this season.
However, if we want to grow and progress as a club this kind of football is not the way forward!
Impressionable young kids do not want to be assosciiated with something that is widely seen as dull and boring.
In the age of worldwide TV coverage, it is not good for our club to have neutral fans turning off their tv or not bothering to watch because we are dull and boring.
Some interesting points made last night about the Dutch side of the 70's, Brazil of 82 and the Greece team that won the Euro championship. To this day, those Brazil and Dutch
teams that won nothing are widely regarded as great teams that played great football. They played the kind of football that gets young kids interested in football. Contrast them to the Greece team who are now just a stat in the record books.

Jose's football is why Man Utd didn't want him as their manager.
It's why Real Madrid fans couldn't wait to see the back of him.
Great clubs who want to win every bit as much as Jose, but try to win with style and entertain not only their fans, but football fans around the world. That's what great teams do!

If we want to take the next step as a club then we will have to change the way play and stop being so negative and pragmatic everytime we come up against half decent teams.
Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 17:30
Dixon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
Youth Cup winners again. Our set-up is incredibly strong.
But where is the fruit at the end?
We've had top youth teams for years now, but look at how many have made it with us.
Why do they all seem to hit a brick wall when they reach 17
Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 18:13
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,811
But where is the fruit at the end?
We've had top youth teams for years now, but look at how many have made it with us.
Why do they all seem to hit a brick wall when they reach 17
Hello Dixon ! Good to hear from you.
Jesus, for the fan of a club just about to win the PL, with one of the most exciting young players we've ever seen, you really come across as a pretty joyless chap. You cup isn't just half empty, it's down to the dregs. Cheer up mate, it's been a good season.

I'm not going to even attempt to answer your post about Mourinho and our boring football. We've heard it all before and there's just no truth in it. I could point out to you the AC Milan teams of 1988/1994, widely admired as among the greatest ever produced but just as pragmatic as any Mourinho side. But I'm guessing you'd call them dull and boring as well.
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 18:39
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
But where is the fruit at the end?
We've had top youth teams for years now, but look at how many have made it with us.
Why do they all seem to hit a brick wall when they reach 17
Lack of competitive games.

If you watched the first leg for the majority you could have been watching a training session between a bunch of mates.

They need to play games that "mean" something week in week out.

Are they really under any pressure at the moment? Does winning or losing have a real effect? As it would in league football?

A lack of talent is not the issue, we know they have talent and we know we some of the best resources around but it's totally different when you are playing in a game like the two legged final and a first 11 training game never mind a league game
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 18:47
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
As people have said many times before its a work in progress. We started very well, keeping that intensity up was always going to be a issue.

This was season one (last season was about fixing the mess Rafa left). Has it been perfect? No but that was mission impossible. You won't see what you want for at least 3 or 4 more years. There is no quicker way of doing it unless we start spending silly money (and not prioritising remaining top 2 and single points behind champions) which is crucial to what the club is trying to do.
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 21:43
Jokanovic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,657
But where is the fruit at the end?
We've had top youth teams for years now, but look at how many have made it with us.
Why do they all seem to hit a brick wall when they reach 17
Interesting article in the DM. Since 2011 the finalists have only produced one star so far and he's now in Italy. It's Pogba.
As much as you want it to be, it's not just at Chelsea.

Oh I didn't see you answer my previous post. Do you still want Brendan as our
manager
Jokanovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 22:12
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
An interesting fact from the arsenal game.

The spine of arsenals team had played half the number of games this season as that of Chelsea players.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 22:37
Dixon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
Interesting article in the DM. Since 2011 the finalists have only produced one star so far and he's now in Italy. It's Pogba.
As much as you want it to be, it's not just at Chelsea.

Oh I didn't see you answer my previous post. Do you still want Brendan as our
manager

Brendan wants his teams to play the kind of football that I like to watch, so i will always have time for him.
This season he had his legs chopped off with the departure of Suarez and Sturrridge being injured. That is like Chelsea being without Hazard and Costa.

I like to think I have an open mind and willing to change my opinions.
I was very pleasantly surprised by our style and quality of football for the first few months
of the season. Unfortunately, that dissapeared and we laboured to finish off even the relegation contendters.

As i've already said, even I think it was important for Jose and the club to win the title this season. The pressure would have been on much more next season if we hadn't won it.
But I want us to try and get to the a new level now.
Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 22:41
Dixon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
An interesting fact from the arsenal game.

The spine of arsenals team had played half the number of games this season as that of Chelsea players.
There have been comments form some players that our players are knackred and that's why the performances dropped off.
I think our squad is still quite short of real quality. Jose badly wanted to win something big this year and to do that he probably felt he needed to play the best 11 as often as he possibly could.
Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 23:11
Jokanovic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,657
Brendan wants his teams to play the kind of football that I like to watch, so i will always have time for him.
This season he had his legs chopped off with the departure of Suarez and Sturrridge being injured. That is like Chelsea being without Hazard and Costa.

I like to think I have an open mind and willing to change my opinions.
I was very pleasantly surprised by our style and quality of football for the first few months
of the season. Unfortunately, that dissapeared and we laboured to finish off even the relegation contendters.

As i've already said, even I think it was important for Jose and the club to win the title this season. The pressure would have been on much more next season if we hadn't won it.
But I want us to try and get to the a new level now.
Well I agree with your last paragraph for sure.

As for Brendan, all style and not much substance if you ask me.
Jokanovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2015, 23:14
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
Everyone knew they was going to struggle for goals this season.

Sturridge vastly over achieved. A semi decent manager would have looked at their weaknesses last season and worked on them. Roger's refused to do that.

Their goal difference is going to be vastly worse once again then the big teams. Until he learns how to do something he claims is easy his teams will never win anything apart from plaudits.

Next season he will make the same mistakes again. He thinks he can score his way to winning things, it won't work
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 08:26
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
Rodgers, imho, is out of his depth. He got lucky with such a big job with LFC straight from Swansea but has not taken them forward for his £215 million spend. Lightening was captured in a bottle with suarez (who was there before rodgers) and the player nearly got them to a league single handedly.

The £120 million spend this season was not quite as wasted as that of spurs, but it clearly hasnt worked. Rodgers was touted as being an excellent man manager (a la redknapp) but found he could not work with moody star players (a la redknapp) afterall.

There are excuses that they have "lost 100 goals" this season without Sturridge and Suarez, and yet messi, neymar AND suarez have only just reached that combined.

Rodgers in interview is infuriating. If the team win he was the genius behind it. All fake teeth and new LFC payrolled girlfriends. If the team loses, somehow LFC played wonderfully well and were still the best team on the pitch (really?).

Its a matter of time before LFC get rid of him, and he will find his new level at Wigan, and probably go back to his wife.

I would not want him anywhere near chelsea.

Perhaps its time LFC went back to their first love, Rafa?
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 09:06
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
Remember last season when Liverpool fans kept invading our thread questioning why we were happy with Mourinho and telling us how we should feel about him? It's funny thinking about it as Mourinho steers us towards a League and Cup double, whilst Rodgers hasn't cracked up to be the great manager they seemed to think he was.

Perhaps its time LFC went back to their first love, Rafa?
What amuses me is that we had to endure a lot of their fans telling us we should be grateful to have him as manager when he was at Chelsea, when in their own thread most of them don't even seem keen on having him back at their own club.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 18:52
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
Cech; Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry (c), Azpilicueta; Ramires, Matic; Willian, Fabregas, Hazard; Drogba

SUBS: Courtois, Filipe Luis, Zouma, Ake, Mikel, Oscar, Cuadrado
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 19:11
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
No remy or Costa again
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 19:23
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,811
Drogba struggled on Sunday, I was hoping we'd see Oscar as a false No 9 again, it worked well in the first half against Arsenal. But presumably the suspected concussion means it isn't worth the risk. Perhaps we'll see Cuadrado a bit earlier and he can show us what he's really worth ?
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 19:23
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,431
No remy or Costa again
Not a shock, thought I heard the Liverpool game was the aim to have them back by
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2015, 19:36
NorthernNinny
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,094
Remember last season when Liverpool fans kept invading our thread questioning why we were happy with Mourinho and telling us how we should feel about him? It's funny thinking about it as Mourinho steers us towards a League and Cup double, whilst Rodgers hasn't cracked up to be the great manager they seemed to think he was.



What amuses me is that we had to endure a lot of their fans telling us we should be grateful to have him as manager when he was at Chelsea, when in their own thread most of them don't even seem keen on having him back at their own club.
Tbf you didn't do too bad with Rafa all things considered.

Didn't you win the Europa league with him?
NorthernNinny is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:23.