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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5) |
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#2876 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,095
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Its good to see jose extending his deal for the next 4 years.
Love him or loath him, he really is the only option at chelsea. He has also stated that if he leaves, his next club with be in the PL (so thats united, city or arsenal!!!) i dont think i would like to see that! Will we play loftus-cheek in the next three games? I could see Klopp or Pep at Arsenal first. Maybe he wants to give a second chance to the one that so cruelly snubbed him? ![]()
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#2877 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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Quote:
Its good to see jose extending his deal for the next 4 years.
Love him or loath him, he really is the only option at chelsea. He has also stated that if he leaves, his next club with be in the PL (so thats united, city or arsenal!!!) i dont think i would like to see that! Will we play loftus-cheek in the next three games? |
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#2878 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
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Quote:
Its good to see jose extending his deal for the next 4 years.
Love him or loath him, he really is the only option at chelsea. He has also stated that if he leaves, his next club with be in the PL (so thats united, city or arsenal!!!) i dont think i would like to see that! Will we play loftus-cheek in the next three games? (yeh, I've given up on seeing anyone come through) |
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#2879 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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I think Mourinho will give Loftus-Cheek some game time during the last three matches. I don't expect him to get 90 minutes in any game, but I'd be surprised if he didn't feature a couple of times. I expect to see Zouma. Luis and Cuadrado as well, and Petr Cech will have to be given a big send-off.
Having played important games without our two main strikers, and a couple of other games with a young, inexperienced CB playing in midfield, I don't think anyone could accuse us of deliberately playing a weakened team. We don't have a big enough squad to put out a weak team anyway..Jose doesn't believe in keeping 2nd rate squad players just to make up the numbers.
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#2880 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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With this being his last year with the youth team and there still being games to come for the youth I think it only be fair to him to play in those last few games with his team and the players he has played with for a number of years. He is not going to learn anything from playing meaningless games where nothing is on the line. If we was going to use him tail end of the season he should have been starting the last couple of games when something was on the line which is what he will face every single week next season
Let him draw a line underneath his days with the youth team and start a new chapter with the senior team Not sure where we are in the league (or if we can win it) but to remove a key player with only a few games left I think is unfair on the players left behind. I seem to remember something about the upcoming fixtures involving teams directly above us (would not say 100%) |
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#2881 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
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With the remaining games we have left involving Liverpool and Sunderland who both still are involved with either the fight for top 4 or relegation
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He is not going to learn anything from playing meaningless games where nothing is on the line.
That's IF Jose is serious about him. |
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#2882 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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I just don't see what the point in playing him in games where we could be 20-0 down and him scoring 10 own goals and the West and East stand be sleeping as normal and The Shed and Matthew Harding will be singing songs from the last 50 years while doing the bouncy and not giving a F what's happening on the pitch. He needs matches where the team he is playing for has something on the line.
I rather he be in matches where there is something on the line. The youth team still have objectives and something to aim for. What message does it send to the youth team players? The club puts 3 parties over a entire season of them trying to finish as high up the table as possible? He is a senior member of that team. Removing him from that team can only create negativity |
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#2883 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
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First team football matters more than anything. If he's ever going to be good enough, he needs to starting playing at the top ASAP.
As for the message it sends....we haven't brought a player through since John Terry. Seeing a teammate making it in to the first team squad won't do them any harm at all. |
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#2884 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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If it was to have played against Palace for the title then yes but to be in games that are nothing more then training matches and a chance for us to say goodbye to Cech and Drogba I don't see what he gains from it.
He needs to be playing important games for the first team ASAP (which is next season) This season should be about the players that won us the title. I rather see the youth have a chance of at least coming 2nd to something they won(had a look and played two games less then Utd and 7 behind and we play the two teams above us) last season. Being involved in those sort of games gives him more of a idea of the pressure that comes with playing in the first team then games that are no more then a chance to laugh at Steve G and more then likely laugh at Sunderland fans going down |
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#2885 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Well, you appear to have changed your tune Dixon me old mate.
I don't know what's caused it, but it's good to see. ![]() ![]() I haven't changed that much! ![]() I still want Jose to play more adventerous football more often, but I'm not asking for silly gung-ho football. There's always a time to play with your heart and times to play with your head. I did think us 'parking the bus' against UTD was excessive and a bit but that's just my opinion.However, i came to appreciate that 5 years without the title is more than long enough! Added to that, if we hadn't won it the pressure would have mounted and have really been on Jose and the team next season to win the title and next season would probably have been win at all cost from day one ![]() ![]() As it is, next season there's less pressure on us and more pressure City, UTD. Arsenal and Liverpool. |
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#2886 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
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If it was to have played against Palace for the title then yes but to be in games that are nothing more then training matches and a chance for us to say goodbye to Cech and Drogba I don't see what he gains from it.
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#2887 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,347
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Please don't sell PC to the Ars, please dont buy G.Bale, even for half price.
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#2888 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
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Petr should not be sold to anyone in the pl for footballing reasons, but Roman has said that he can go anywhere he likes for the service he has given us. He is still at the top of his game. He would see much more of the ball at arsenal playing behind per mertesackofspuds.
RLC should play all three games from the start, and drogba on for a cameo at 66 minutes. |
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#2889 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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![]() I haven't changed that much! ![]() I still want Jose to play more adventerous football more often, but I'm not asking for silly gung-ho football. There's always a time to play with your heart and times to play with your head. I did think us 'parking the bus' against UTD was excessive and a bit but that's just my opinion.However, i came to appreciate that 5 years without the title is more than long enough! Added to that, if we hadn't won it the pressure would have mounted and have really been on Jose and the team next season to win the title and next season would probably have been win at all cost from day one ![]() ![]() As it is, next season there's less pressure on us and more pressure City, UTD. Arsenal and Liverpool. City will have a new manager so will have some grace,Arsenal have no pressure as long as they finish top 4 and Utd I think will be expected at most a title challenge where as we who are currently 13 points ahead of everyone and so far ahead of everyone that we will be even better next season and Liverpool will be totally irrelevant as they was this season. |
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#2890 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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Youth games will do him more good than competitive matches against Premier League teams??? And, again, Liverpool and Sunderland will see these matches as 'training' matches? They'll be going all-out to win, as will we. The outcome might not change anything for us, but the matches will absolutely be of higher quality than anything else he's experienced before. He's currently playing alongside players who will most likely never play top league football, and against players who also won't amount much. There's simply no comparison.
He needs to be playing important games not just games While the current first team will want to win the remaining 3 games their mentality will be very different to if we still needed points. The dressing room will have a very different feel to it, Going in at half-time at 0-0,winning or losing will be very different to if we still needed points. Having the right mental attitude makes a decent player a great player a great player a amazing player and not having it can turn great players into decent players etc. Its why I think looking at having youth or b teams in lower leagues has got to be looked at. Players playing for Chelsea at any level be it the first team or the under 21's 18's 16's etc need to learn how to deal the weight of expectations from day one. Where as playing in the youth team he will be involved in games that matter, That where you make one mistake and that's the season over, games that where if you play well you achieve something. He can end his time at his current club as a two time league champion (or at least runners up etc). While yes the games with the first team will mean something to the teams we are facing the games in the youth team will mean something to BOTH teams. We will be playing two teams who are going for the title. Coming on for 20 minutes in the charity shield will do him more good then playing in the next 3 games as that it is a competitive game. The next 3 games are only completive for the teams we are playing not for us. I don't think we not had players not coming though since JT due to lack of talent I think its lack of mental strength, Lack of a winning edge, Not knowing what it takes to win and not having a taste of what winning something and getting addicted to it |
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#2891 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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Watched the programme on Jimmy and his season as manager.
Have to say he comes across very well and having a decent chance of becoming a decent manager. Agree with him about The Rooney Rule being a bad idea. More "players" who want to become managers need to take a leaf out of his book and start at the bottom and work their way up and not get obsessed with being in the premiership. His goal is to become a great manager now if that's of a team in the top league that's fantastic but if its a great manager of a lower league club that is just as fantastic. Make that team your " Barcelona" |
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#2892 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,659
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Quote:
Watched the programme on Jimmy and his season as manager.
Have to say he comes across very well and having a decent chance of becoming a decent manager. Agree with him about The Rooney Rule being a bad idea. More "players" who want to become managers need to take a leaf out of his book and start at the bottom and work their way up and not get obsessed with being in the premiership. His goal is to become a great manager now if that's of a team in the top league that's fantastic but if its a great manager of a lower league club that is just as fantastic. Make that team your " Barcelona" |
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#2893 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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I would have said there was even more pressure on us next then this.
City will have a new manager so will have some grace,Arsenal have no pressure as long as they finish top 4 and Utd I think will be expected at most a title challenge where as we who are currently 13 points ahead of everyone and so far ahead of everyone that we will be even better next season and Liverpool will be totally irrelevant as they was this season. I can't ever recall the PL champs being under media pressure to win it again the following season. This title win has lifted a weight off Jose and the club. We can now look to build without desperately needing to win it next season. |
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#2894 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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I can't ever recall the PL champs being under media pressure to win it again the following season.
This title win has lifted a weight off Jose and the club. We can now look to build without desperately needing to win it next season. This obsession with what people outside the club think and say is crazy. We should put ourself s under pressure to win it. We are so much further ahead then the other clubs that we have to win it. We should be putting pressure on us to win it three times in a row, We need to build and win stuff at the same time before the other catch up. Getting side tracked and forgetting WINNING the league is everything set us back big time, With the tools we have had at our disposal and the relative average level of the teams around us we should have easily had three titles on the bounce by now. We should not have needed Jose back (although I am pleased he is) Utd wont be rebuilding for long,City will sooner or later get it right (like we have finally) and we have a number of clubs who will soon have massive revenue streams from their new grounds (where as we are many years from rebuilding the bridge or moving) as well as the new tv money. The time to strike to conquer is now and if we don't do it now we will regret it AGAIN. It should have happened the year we did the double under Carlo. We mucked up big time, We got away with it I don't think we will again. To much has changed in the Premiership and even bigger changes to come |
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#2895 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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What has the media got to do with anything?
This obsession with what people outside the club think and say is crazy. We should put ourself s under pressure to win it. We are so much further ahead then the other clubs that we have to win it. We should be putting pressure on us to win it three times in a row, We need to build and win stuff at the same time before the other catch up. Getting side tracked and forgetting WINNING the league is everything set us back big time, With the tools we have had at our disposal and the relative average level of the teams around us we should have easily had three titles on the bounce by now. We should not have needed Jose back (although I am pleased he is) Utd wont be rebuilding for long,City will sooner or later get it right (like we have finally) and we have a number of clubs who will soon have massive revenue streams from their new grounds (where as we are many years from rebuilding the bridge or moving) as well as the new tv money. The time to strike to conquer is now and if we don't do it now we will regret it AGAIN. It should have happened the year we did the double under Carlo. We mucked up big time, We got away with it I don't think we will again. To much has changed in the Premiership and even bigger changes to come You're burying your head in the sand if you don't think media pressure is a significant factor in today's game, especially at the top clubs. The knives were out for Moyes at UTD as the moment UTD started to struggle. After a great season last last year, there's now questions about the future of Rodgers. If Liverpool get off to a dodgy start next season the media will be all over him like a rash. If Chelsea had not won the title it would have been 3 years without a major title for Jose. He's all about winning, so that means he was failing I'm surprised you can't see, or agree with all this. |
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#2896 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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Moyes was always going to struggle, anyone following SAF would have. It was a poisoned chalice more so with the team he was left and the chief executive leaving at the same time. The main pressure came because he followed SAF. The pressure came from the expectations of managing Manchester Utd and replacing the main man. We have seen with Van Gaal (who's record is not that different then Moyes) that it's always better to follow the man who followed The Man. The fans lead the pressure on Moyes not the media. If he had the fans onside he would have still been there today. The fans didn't turn because the media told them to they did it because unlike now where they seem to be moving in the wrong direction.
No matter what the media said or did this season Jose would have been in trouble this season if we did not win (or at least get within a couple of points) of the title. But for the simple reason that was has to have been the minimum he should have been able to achieve. The media could have loved him or hated him he would have still gone. The pressure comes from the expectations that comes with being manager of a massive club and the landscape of the league. Looking at the club's around us looking at our club, looking at what the club's around us can do between now and next season and what we can do and unless one of them buy Messi and Ronaldo then yes we do need to win the title again next season and not because the media say we do but because that's the level we are at and the level of the club's around us. Unless one of the other clubs has some sort of amazing season the likes of has not been seen since Wenger's untouchable's and we collapse as quickly as Leeds have dropped though the leagues then there is not a single reason we should not win the title again. That's not the media pressure that's pressure from leading the league for all but one week (from memory) that's pressure from being so far in front of second place calling them runners up is being generous. We have to win the title next season as if we don't it means one of the other clubs have done some sort of miracle and we have shot ourselves in the head with a rocket launcher. Winning the title is a achievement but in the current climate it one that cannot be allowed to be our benchmark with or without media pressure. The pressure comes from within the club and the fans |
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#2897 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
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For the record, wengers untouchables were a horrible team, grinding out bore all draws and getting massive help from refing decisions going there way.
The season where we won by losing only two games was a much much better performance. We have not done badly this season, only losing three games in 4 competitions in total. Quite amazing. Arsenal didn't do that! |
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#2898 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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6 Chelsea players in the team of the season and there is a valid argument for two more (Cesc and Thibaut Courtois) and we are not under as much pressure to win it next season? We have to to put more pressure on us to improve on that. We cannot start going backwards or stand still or sideways.
The view of the media or the pressure they do or don't put on us is is not important compared to the pressure we have to put ourself under. This season has to to raise expectations of what we can do. Adding to the team and the current team having more experience in knowing what it takes to win and the manager we have has to mean next season we improve on that and yes while its not going to be easy. The pressure is going to be very different but we need to raise our game to match it Winning the title at all costs has to be our mindset every single season. The second we get start forgetting that we will be finishing outside the top 4 again. |
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#2899 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
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For the record, wengers untouchables were a horrible team, grinding out bore all draws and getting massive help from refing decisions going there way.
The season where we won by losing only two games was a much much better performance. We have not done badly this season, only losing three games in 4 competitions in total. Quite amazing. Arsenal didn't do that! We have done very well but we cannot rest on that. Yea we only lost 3 games but we need to look at those games and what the reasons behind those losses was. We need to look at the PSG games and what happened there. We know all about our wins and how we won them but need to spend as much time now looking at what we did wrong. Being 2-0 up at half-time should mean we win against only the very very best teams in the world. We should never ever let in 5 goals no matter what standard of team we playing. Not taking away for a second how great this season has been but now we look at the low points to ensure we are better prepared next time |
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#2900 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Moyes was always going to struggle, anyone following SAF would have. It was a poisoned chalice more so with the team he was left and the chief executive leaving at the same time. The main pressure came because he followed SAF. The pressure came from the expectations of managing Manchester Utd and replacing the main man. We have seen with Van Gaal (who's record is not that different then Moyes) that it's always better to follow the man who followed The Man. The fans lead the pressure on Moyes not the media. If he had the fans onside he would have still been there today. The fans didn't turn because the media told them to they did it because unlike now where they seem to be moving in the wrong direction.
No matter what the media said or did this season Jose would have been in trouble this season if we did not win (or at least get within a couple of points) of the title. But for the simple reason that was has to have been the minimum he should have been able to achieve. The media could have loved him or hated him he would have still gone. The pressure comes from the expectations that comes with being manager of a massive club and the landscape of the league. Looking at the club's around us looking at our club, looking at what the club's around us can do between now and next season and what we can do and unless one of them buy Messi and Ronaldo then yes we do need to win the title again next season and not because the media say we do but because that's the level we are at and the level of the club's around us. Unless one of the other clubs has some sort of amazing season the likes of has not been seen since Wenger's untouchable's and we collapse as quickly as Leeds have dropped though the leagues then there is not a single reason we should not win the title again. That's not the media pressure that's pressure from leading the league for all but one week (from memory) that's pressure from being so far in front of second place calling them runners up is being generous. We have to win the title next season as if we don't it means one of the other clubs have done some sort of miracle and we have shot ourselves in the head with a rocket launcher. Winning the title is a achievement but in the current climate it one that cannot be allowed to be our benchmark with or without media pressure. The pressure comes from within the club and the fans Chairmen do take notice of what's said in the media and I include social media as well. That's why they come out and publicly back managers who are under pressure, then often sack them a few weeks later. If we do not win the title next season nothing will be said by anyone because we won it this season. Starting next season the question marks are all against the names of the other managers at the top. Having said that, I'm certainly not saying we should sit back thinking 'we are it' like City appear to have done this season. We should indeed be going all out to win another title. Just saying we're not under kind of pressure we would have been had we not won it this season. |
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but that's just my opinion.