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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


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Old 04-09-2015, 14:28
RichmondBlue
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The flipping of young players going forward has to be a route we go down. It's a fantastic way of adding another revenue stream. We not only have the resources to find the best young players but have a top class facility for them to join. We cannot only judge the academy going forward on how many players it produces for us. That's a very old fashioned way of looking at it. We are now at a level (or should be) that really only special players make it and those players only come around once in a while. But we should be more then able to develop players who are good enough for most clubs in Europe and make some money from transfers
Oh yes, I agree. I just didn't agree with the tone of the article, it seemed to suggest we'd had a good transfer window.
As you said in a previous post, we spent far too much time chasing Stones. It was reminiscent of our pursuit of Rooney a couple of seasons ago. Then we did nothing about our problem in DM. No cover for Matic apart from Mikel, and nobody to play alongside Matic for games that require an extra ball winner in midfield.
Mourinho is meant to have put in his "wants list" of possible players or the positions he wished to strengthen in April. I would have thought we could have done better. Players have changed hands that we could have used, How about Vidal for example, fantastic player in my opinion, and he didn't look expensive at £26/28m.
I'm pleased we got Pedro, but even that sounds slightly fortunate. Man Utd (or LVG) just dithered around and lost him. Signing Falcao was ok, a gamble with little downside. But we didn't have much competition for his signature, so it wasn't a major coup.
Rahman should also be ok if we've done our homework properly, and Begovic was definitely a great signing after the loss of Cech.
Ii guess it wasn't that bad a window, but a DM and a CB should have been in there somewhere. I just feel a bit underwhelmed after months of speculation.
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Old 04-09-2015, 14:54
codeblue
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Id play oscar alongside matic, but do we really need to play 2 DMs?
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Old 04-09-2015, 14:55
Dixon
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Personally I think it's you on a wind up and not the first time.
As I said before, in the end Rafa was tolerated, there was a truce. He didn't like us and most didn't like him. He won us a trophy and we improved his CV.
Any support for Rafa too stay was an absolute minority.
As for saying he was right about JT shows that you really are a bit of a clown considering how he performed last season.
And you say you support Chelsea..........

Will you please stop questioning the loyalty of people on here who just happen to not see things the way you see them.
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Old 04-09-2015, 15:09
codeblue
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Will you please stop questioning the loyalty of people on here who just happen to not see things the way you see them.
When forum members state things like the overwhelming number of fans supported Rafa, when its simply not true, does make one question their opinion somewhat.
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Old 04-09-2015, 15:22
RichmondBlue
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Id play oscar alongside matic, but do we really need to play 2 DMs?
I quite like the idea of playing Oscar in that position as well, when he first joined us he often dropped a lot deeper and doesn't shy away from a tackle. I'm not suggesting two holding players, but just having a player who can distribute the ball and add a bit of "bite" in midfield would improve things in my opinion.
Michael Ballack had everything, so did Essien. Even Lamps was a decent ball winner and could defend, he was far better than Scholes in that respect. That's why I mentioned Vidal, he's a skillful player who also has a nasty streak. The type you hate when he's playing for the opposition, but you learn to love when he's doing the business for you.
I just don't like Fabregas in that position. There seems to be a shared wisdom that Cesc can't play the number 10 role. I've never quite understood that, he looks to be almost perfect for that position. Perhaps someone could explain ?
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Old 04-09-2015, 15:25
The_don1
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Oh yes, I agree. I just didn't agree with the tone of the article, it seemed to suggest we'd had a good transfer window.
As you said in a previous post, we spent far too much time chasing Stones. It was reminiscent of our pursuit of Rooney a couple of seasons ago. Then we did nothing about our problem in DM. No cover for Matic apart from Mikel, and nobody to play alongside Matic for games that require an extra ball winner in midfield.
Mourinho is meant to have put in his "wants list" of possible players or the positions he wished to strengthen in April. I would have thought we could have done better. Players have changed hands that we could have used, How about Vidal for example, fantastic player in my opinion, and he didn't look expensive at £26/28m.
I'm pleased we got Pedro, but even that sounds slightly fortunate. Man Utd (or LVG) just dithered around and lost him. Signing Falcao was ok, a gamble with little downside. But we didn't have much competition for his signature, so it wasn't a major coup.
Rahman should also be ok if we've done our homework properly, and Begovic was definitely a great signing after the loss of Cech.
Ii guess it wasn't that bad a window, but a DM and a CB should have been in there somewhere. I just feel a bit underwhelmed after months of speculation.
That's the problem with speculation. Some of the best transfers are ones that have come out of nowhere and with little or no speculation. It's why I stay away as much as possible from who we are after and who we meant to be after.

I really did not expect us to do much this window. Not saying we did not need to but with everyone else running around trying to do business (and some the same business) it's just to hectic to get any decent business done. You have clubs trying to buy just for the sake of buying you have clubs trying to screw as much money as possible out of clubs you have clubs trying to act tough by keeping players you have players trying to engineer moves. It's just a pretty bad time to try and make intelligent deals (and Sky Sports News makes it even worse with their reporting style). This window IMO was always going to be a bad one for the bigger clubs and if you look around none of them really came out of it well. They either did not get that many of their top targets or paid well over the odd's.

This Window was always going to be a tough one, The new TV deals kicking in etc.

While yes we did not get anything near what we needed I think it was always going to be extremely tough to do that. Not impossible but we needed everything to go in our favor and that is very rare when it comes to transfers much like in cup football you often need that little bit of luck. We just did not have it this time.

This new transfer policy works we have seen that since Jose returned (it's been more successful then any previous ones IMO). It didn't work as well as it did in the past this time but that doesn't mean it won't next. Much like everything going on at the club at the moment it's a work in progress.

It was what it was.

We could have gone for other targets if we didn't get our first ones I agree BUT surely if we have identified someone as number one target and someone has a number two there had to be a reason why they are in that order? And as such surely there is some logic in seeing if we can do a deal another time for the number one target? It's not like at the time we was in dire straights (although current form I admit might disagree). Take Stones for example while some might not agree he should be our number target and think he is overpriced it seems the club did make him their number one target for defence, Who knows Everton's stance might soften come the next window.

I would rather we don't rush into transfers like we did in the past, it's expensive and bad business.

If we have to wait two or three windows to get our number one targets or to to be that little bit more certain of them would rather we did that then move down the short list.

It's not like we have a bunch of donkeys at the moment (no matter how much the cheerful brothers say otherwise).
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Old 04-09-2015, 15:56
codeblue
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One thing our team is lacking, are leaders. That was the issue in the last game - they looked lost.

Without cech, terry, lamps and drogba there are no candidates. Brana just isnt up to it - and his form is terrible. Cahill next in line?

We could have done with buying a midfield "captain" - who was there on the pitch to talk to them, to tell players what to do?
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Old 04-09-2015, 16:30
Jokanovic
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Will you please stop questioning the loyalty of people on here who just happen to not see things the way you see them.
No I won't and will your answer my questions.
So, did you celebrate when we stopped Liverpool winning the league and you delighted in their hurt. Was it a great day for you and all fans right ?
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Old 04-09-2015, 16:53
The_don1
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No I won't and will your answer my questions.
So, did you celebrate when we stopped Liverpool winning the league and you delighted in their hurt. Was it a great day for you and all fans right ?
Real football died a little bit more that day. How dare a team stop such a wonderful free scoring team from scoring and score more goals then them.

It really was a great day and hilarious, nearly as funny as Gerard trying to be Superman and try scoring no matter where he was on the pitch or if players was better placed to score and failing.
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Old 04-09-2015, 17:03
Jokanovic
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Real football died a little bit more that day. How dare a team stop such a wonderful free scoring team from scoring and score more goals then them.

It really was a great day and hilarious, nearly as funny as Gerard trying to be Superman and try scoring no matter where he was on the pitch or if players was better placed to score and failing.
It was indeed. I just want to see if Dixon and Tip Top enjoyed it as much as all other Chelsea fans.
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Old 04-09-2015, 19:18
RichmondBlue
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That's the problem with speculation. Some of the best transfers are ones that have come out of nowhere and with little or no speculation. It's why I stay away as much as possible from who we are after and who we meant to be after.

I really did not expect us to do much this window. Not saying we did not need to but with everyone else running around trying to do business (and some the same business) it's just to hectic to get any decent business done. You have clubs trying to buy just for the sake of buying you have clubs trying to screw as much money as possible out of clubs you have clubs trying to act tough by keeping players you have players trying to engineer moves. It's just a pretty bad time to try and make intelligent deals (and Sky Sports News makes it even worse with their reporting style). This window IMO was always going to be a bad one for the bigger clubs and if you look around none of them really came out of it well. They either did not get that many of their top targets or paid well over the odd's.

This Window was always going to be a tough one, The new TV deals kicking in etc.

While yes we did not get anything near what we needed I think it was always going to be extremely tough to do that. Not impossible but we needed everything to go in our favor and that is very rare when it comes to transfers much like in cup football you often need that little bit of luck. We just did not have it this time.

This new transfer policy works we have seen that since Jose returned (it's been more successful then any previous ones IMO). It didn't work as well as it did in the past this time but that doesn't mean it won't next. Much like everything going on at the club at the moment it's a work in progress.

It was what it was.

We could have gone for other targets if we didn't get our first ones I agree BUT surely if we have identified someone as number one target and someone has a number two there had to be a reason why they are in that order? And as such surely there is some logic in seeing if we can do a deal another time for the number one target? It's not like at the time we was in dire straights (although current form I admit might disagree). Take Stones for example while some might not agree he should be our number target and think he is overpriced it seems the club did make him their number one target for defence, Who knows Everton's stance might soften come the next window.

I would rather we don't rush into transfers like we did in the past, it's expensive and bad business.

If we have to wait two or three windows to get our number one targets or to to be that little bit more certain of them would rather we did that then move down the short list.

It's not like we have a bunch of donkeys at the moment (no matter how much the cheerful brothers say otherwise).
Yes, I can't disagree with much of that. You make a very convincing argument..as usual.
My only question about the idea of waiting is that the majority of pundits and observers of the game seem to think that it will only get worse ? That the huge influx of money into the game will make even the prices Man City paid seem cheap ?
I do agree though, paying £50m for Sterling and £60m for KDB doesn't look like good business right now. We have an enormous amount of talent coming through, the odds are surely in our favour that a few of those will make the grade, together with others who we will be able to sell-on at a profit.
It's certainly not all doom and gloom, forgetting the arguments about Mourinho we have an owner who is as eager for success as any fan. He's not just a bean-counter who's only interested in the bottom line, Roman Abramovich is with us for the long haul and loves his football. Plus, he's a big kid at heart, he wants to see big names at The Bridge and he still has deep pockets.
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Old 04-09-2015, 22:13
The_don1
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Yes, I can't disagree with much of that. You make a very convincing argument..as usual.
My only question about the idea of waiting is that the majority of pundits and observers of the game seem to think that it will only get worse ? That the huge influx of money into the game will make even the prices Man City paid seem cheap ?
I do agree though, paying £50m for Sterling and £60m for KDB doesn't look like good business right now. We have an enormous amount of talent coming through, the odds are surely in our favour that a few of those will make the grade, together with others who we will be able to sell-on at a profit.
It's certainly not all doom and gloom, forgetting the arguments about Mourinho we have an owner who is as eager for success as any fan. He's not just a bean-counter who's only interested in the bottom line, Roman Abramovich is with us for the long haul and loves his football. Plus, he's a big kid at heart, he wants to see big names at The Bridge and he still has deep pockets.
The City issue will sooner or later has to change (unless they are a complete and utter failure), at the moment they need to spend the sort of cash they are as they need to get out the group stages of the Champions League and this is the only way to do so. Unless they get into the top seeds they will not come close to being anywhere near where they should be. Once they start getting to semis etc they will discover like we did the spending is just not worth it unless they go and do a Utd and win the treble.

If pundits and media and observers of the game did not a vested interest in keeping the circle of spending going then I would pay attention to what they say, they are just doing what they do best as they do in politics or entertainment or sports just fanning the flames. Five years ago these same people would have said either we would have continued to spend crazy money or Roman would have done one, they would never have said our spending would have been one of the most sensible in the league as its not a story they can sell.

It might take awhile but sooner or later the spending will get to a less crazy level. It's still going to be insane but that tiny bit less insane. We talking Reggie Kray insane instead of Ronnie Kray insanity.

That's when we should start getting involved again.

Yes we talking about very slim margins and probably only talking about the difference of a few million but if you add those few million up over 3 or 4 superstar signings a season it makes for a 5th superstar signing and add that to the revenue streams from new ground,flipping young players and tv sponsorship deals etc we will become a very well run club and with that comes on the pitch success
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Old 06-09-2015, 14:31
Dixon
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No I won't and will your answer my questions.
So, did you celebrate when we stopped Liverpool winning the league and you delighted in their hurt. Was it a great day for you and all fans right ?
I'm not the kind of football fan who is delighted by the hurt felt by opposition fans. I had enough years watching us when were seriously shit, so i know how bad the feeling of massive dissappointment is. So why should i feel joy when others get that feeling.
Tbh, If we don't win the title, i really don't care who does!

However, i felt no sympathy for Rodgers, or the Liverpool players that day!
It was a great, tactical victory that day, but it was a comical one as wel,l because everyone except Rodgers and the Liverpool players could see what we were doing, but they still fell for it bigtime.blush::
Their tactics were right up there with that French guy who blew winning the Open Golf on the final round all those years ago, as the most stupid sporting tactics i've ever seen at the top level of sport.
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Old 06-09-2015, 14:39
Dixon
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We have an enormous amount of talent coming through, the odds are surely in our favour that a few of those will make the grade, together with others who we will be able to sell-on at a profit.
.
We've been hearing and saying this for years and years now.
Each year i hear this crop are the best ever' but nothing ever seems to change
At the end of last season i heard some respected journo's say we had half a dozen genuine top class, with a few who look like they could be world class...where are they????
So long as we keep giving squad places to the likes of Mikel and Ramires, nothing will change!
We need to show confidence in these youngsters, not start putting doubts into their heads the moment they hit 17 and start looking to loan them out. None on these loans seem to improve these youngsters and that goes for players at other clubs as well.
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Old 06-09-2015, 17:26
The_don1
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We have some decent talented youngsters but to say any of them are potentially world class is pushing the meaning of world class to its lowest possible meaning.

Even with the media's obsession with over-hyping players it's a new level for them.

The problem is not loans put doubt into their heads it's this nonsense of making out they are something they are not.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:10
codeblue
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The problem is of course, that a tiny fraction of professional footballers will ever reach the standard to play for the chelsea first 11.

How many times do we see "potential" fizzle out into nothing?
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Old 07-09-2015, 17:14
RichmondBlue
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We have some decent talented youngsters but to say any of them are potentially world class is pushing the meaning of world class to its lowest possible meaning.

Even with the media's obsession with over-hyping players it's a new level for them.

The problem is not loans put doubt into their heads it's this nonsense of making out they are something they are not.
I do wonder about our loan dealings though, it's now become an almost completely different business operation. We appear to be buying some players with no purpose other than to be loaned out and sold on.
I guess it makes sense, as soon as we (or any other big club) put our logo on a player, he immediately gains value. The very fact that a major club has scouted a player gives him a kind of seal of approval.
But is it ethical ? I'm not so sure. We have already been accused of "warehousing" players with the number we've got out on loan. I have mixed feelings about it to be honest, but in today's cutthroat world I suppose we have to do everything we can to compete.
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Old 07-09-2015, 17:31
The_don1
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I do wonder about our loan dealings though, it's now become an almost completely different business operation. We appear to be buying some players with no purpose other than to be loaned out and sold on.
I guess it makes sense, as soon as we (or any other big club) put our logo on a player, he immediately gains value. The very fact that a major club has scouted a player gives him a kind of seal of approval.
But is it ethical ? I'm not so sure. We have already been accused of "warehousing" players with the number we've got out on loan. I have mixed feelings about it to be honest, but in today's cutthroat world I suppose we have to do everything we can to compete.
It's football today, we can either do it or someone else will.

To operate at the level we are we need as many different revenue streams as possible.

The days of a bunch of youngsters coming though a top team like Becks Giggs and Scholes etc are gone. We can either live in the past and moan and cry about how awful modern football is or we can live in today.

We have the best facilities and with the way FFP is set up investing in the youth set up is a massive plus. Other teams cannot afford to invest in these type of resources. The problem other here is not evil players coming from all other the world and stealing hard working English people's jobs but the lack of decent facilities and coaching staff. Take last season Bamford was a important player for Middlesbrough. They benefited from our set up.

Used in the right way loans can help the teams in the lower leagues who don't have access to the information, scouting etc we do. A small amount and it will be a small amount due to the level needed will make it at Chelsea while the rest can go out and have a decent career in football be it in the lower levels of the premiership or in the other leagues
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:10
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Mourinho is meant to have put in his "wants list" of possible players or the positions he wished to strengthen in April. I would have thought we could have done better. Players have changed hands that we could have used, How about Vidal for example, fantastic player in my opinion, and he didn't look expensive at £26/28m.
Ii guess it wasn't that bad a window, but a DM and a CB should have been in there somewhere. I just feel a bit underwhelmed after months of speculation.
Some good points, and I'm not trying to give Jose a hard time, but early on in the season when the club should have been looking for cover in the positions you mention, Jose ACTUALLY said that he was perfectly happy with the squad he had, and wasn't looking to buy any players in particular. Re' Oscar for example, he was quoted as saying that the current players could improve and that Oscar could become another Hazard (!) Come on..

It comes back to points made that the club should ALWAYS be looking to improve the squad after each season no matter what trophies have been won. You can't just do the same thing, and hope the opposition doesn't work your system out. At least the club tried hard to buy Stones and Pogba, unlike the farce when Robinho was nicked from under our noses by an additional £2 million from city. Having said that he failed anyway, so maybe that was a good thing..
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:12
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http://news.yahoo.com/photos/picture...713814258.html

Is it possible to build a new stadium out of ice lolly sticks and pipe cleaners?!
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Old 08-09-2015, 18:52
codeblue
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doesnt look that great to me - looks awful!
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Old 08-09-2015, 19:00
The_don1
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It's totally different from the modern soulless stadiums that are built today, they all look the same metal structures. What I like is right away you will be able to tell it's Chelsea's ground. It's has a physical presence unlike the grounds built today.
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Old 08-09-2015, 19:30
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And all for £500 million (10 Torres's). Bargain!

Looking forward, Man city will be able to expand their ground again beyond 60,000, Old Trafford could go from 70,000 upwards, and the Spanish clubs go way beyond that. There are other ways of generating revenue, although it does limit the club a bit imo. Having said that, the club stays on a site that has a lot of significance historically.
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Old 08-09-2015, 20:37
The_don1
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Staying in the same location was always going to be very important more so with the lack of suitable space anywhere near by.

The local area has always been a important part of the history of Chelsea and to be one of the few "big" clubs to spend their entire life at one ground is fantastic.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:03
roddydogs
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Enough of the stadium......................http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...ter-Matilde-GQ
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