DS Forums

 
 

Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28-10-2015, 11:36
NorthernNinny
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,095
Anyone on codeblue ....... lookout tonght ?
Probably be back if Chelsea beat Liverpool at the weekend, or if Liverpool get beat tonight........
NorthernNinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 28-10-2015, 12:51
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
I don't know what Mourinho was thinking signing him. I was so excited when he went to United but the player that arrived was Falcao in name only. I did wonder if perhaps it was just one of those unlucky things and if he moved he would kick on but it's clearly not happening and in truth it never was. If you replaced Falcao with a player of the ability he used to have it would make a big difference to either Man Utd or Chelsea.
The decision to bring Falcao in has been compounded further by the fact that we also loaned Patrick Bamford to Palace, a player that I said in the summer I'd rather have had in our squad this season than Falcao, if we couldn't bring anyone else worthwhile in. Someone here was adamant that Bamford had to be loaned out as it would stagnate his development staying with us this season as he wouldn't play enough. Well I don't quite see how he's developing at Palace with all of the opportunities they appear to be giving him. We should be looking to cut Falcao's loan short, and recall Bamford from Palace, as neither deal has worked out.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 13:55
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
The decision to bring Falcao in has been compounded further by the fact that we also loaned Patrick Bamford to Palace, a player that I said in the summer I'd rather have had in our squad this season than Falcao, if we couldn't bring anyone else worthwhile in. Someone here was adamant that Bamford had to be loaned out as it would stagnate his development staying with us this season as he wouldn't play enough. Well I don't quite see how he's developing at Palace with all of the opportunities they appear to be giving him. We should be looking to cut Falcao's loan short, and recall Bamford from Palace, as neither deal has worked out.
I don't see how a player who is just about good enough for Palace bench would help us and one who when he has come on for them as looked poor. Palace have given him a few chances but he has not taken them.

We all want to see players come though the system but only when they are good enough and Bamford is so far from being good enough even in our current form.

If Bamford had even looked like scoring I could see a reason for bringing him back but he has not. Falcao has been poor but has at least he has a goal.

Bamford did show some potential in the past but at the moment he is not showing anywhere near that potential. If he cannot show that in a team like Palace I not sure what he can do at a team like Chelsea and one where one of the best players in the world is having troubles performing.

He is better off away from us at the moment.
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 16:28
Wouter
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1,907
After the PSV match yesterday Hiddink was asked about the speculation re possibly taking over from Jose and while he didn't want to comment on this, he did make it clear that he'd still be interested to play a role in 'Top Football' (once he's finished a tour of Asia and Australia in a few weeks)...
Wouter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 23:56
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
I don't see how a player who is just about good enough for Palace bench would help us and one who when he has come on for them as looked poor. Palace have given him a few chances but he has not taken them.

We all want to see players come though the system but only when they are good enough and Bamford is so far from being good enough even in our current form.

If Bamford had even looked like scoring I could see a reason for bringing him back but he has not. Falcao has been poor but has at least he has a goal.

Bamford did show some potential in the past but at the moment he is not showing anywhere near that potential. If he cannot show that in a team like Palace I not sure what he can do at a team like Chelsea and one where one of the best players in the world is having troubles performing.

He is better off away from us at the moment.
Bamford might not have done a better job, although it's highly unlikely he would have done worse than Falcao, who let's be honest was doomed to fail before he'd even kicked a ball for us. At least with us he would be getting as many minutes on the pitch as Palace have afforded him anyway if not more, and we'd be able to take a better look at him and see if he fits in with us, like we're doing with Kennedy and RLC.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 07:31
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
Bamford might not have done a better job, although it's highly unlikely he would have done worse than Falcao, who let's be honest was doomed to fail before he'd even kicked a ball for us. At least with us he would be getting as many minutes on the pitch as Palace have afforded him anyway if not more, and we'd be able to take a better look at him and see if he fits in with us, like we're doing with Kennedy and RLC.
But both players are further along their development then Bamford. But he is doing a worse job then Falcao he ha not got a goal.

Watching RLC and Bamford play you can see RLC is that much further along. RLC is learning how to be a premiership player at one of the best teams where as Bamford needs to learn different things at the moment. What has always struck me about RLC is his attitude and the way holds himself he is ready to be in a dressing room like Chelsea not sure Bamford is

I think it's vital to tailor each players education to their own needs and not ours. That way we get more rounded players who are more like to be a player we can use
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 10:07
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
But both players are further along their development then Bamford. But he is doing a worse job then Falcao he ha not got a goal.
How do you know Kenedy is further along with his development? I'm sure if it had been up to you he would have been loaned out too, and we might not have had a clue as he would have hardly had a look-in either.

Also seeing as that's the second time you've mentioned that Falcao has scored a goal, Bamford has only played 52 minutes in the Premier League compared to Falcao having played 207 minutes. Even across all competitions Falcao has played quite a lot more (345 mins compared to Bamford's 233) and has been playing with better players. The vast majority of Bamford's minutes have been when they've fielded understrength teams in the League Cup. So it's not as simple as saying Falcao has scored a goal, Bamford hasn't when they've played different amounts of time in different teams.

Falcao's not worked out for us, Palace hasn't worked out for Bamford. The logical thing to do would be to look at cancelling both loan spells if at all possible. If we can find another PL club that wants to loan Bamford and will give him more playing time than we can then fine. If not bring him back here.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 10:18
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
How do you know Kenedy is further along with his development? I'm sure if it had been up to you he would have been loaned out too, and we might not have had a clue as he would have hardly had a look-in either.

Also seeing as that's the second time you've mentioned that Falcao has scored a goal, Bamford has only played 52 minutes in the Premier League for Palace compared to Falcao having played 207 minutes. Even across all competitions Falcao has played quite a lot more (345 mins compared to Bamford's 233) and has been playing with better players.

Falcao's not worked out for us, Palace hasn't worked out for Bamford. The logical thing to do would be to look at cancelling both loan spells if at all possible.
You just look at Kenedy to see that.

He had a decent number of appearances at his previous club that meant he was ready to go up a level in his education.

Why has Palace not worked out for Bamford? Its way to early to say that. I would say he is about where you would expect him to be watching him from last season. From his performances he was ready for a premiership bench. It would have helped him massively if he went up with Middlesbrough but sadly that did not happen (and he was very disappointing in the play-off).

The difference between the three players? IMO is that both RLC and Kenedy if sent on loan to Palace or most of the premiership teams would have forced themselves into being first team where as Bamford would not have. Those are the sort of players we need on the bench.

For me Bamford offers very little both on the pitch and in the dressing room.

He needs to do more the opportunity's given to him. The standard excuse "he has not been given any" is part of the reason our national game is so poor. He has been given them but just has not taken them
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 10:45
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
You just look at Kenedy to see that.

He had a decent number of appearances at his previous club that meant he was ready to go up a level in his education.

Why has Palace not worked out for Bamford? Its way to early to say that. I would say he is about where you would expect him to be watching him from last season. From his performances he was ready for a premiership bench. It would have helped him massively if he went up with Middlesbrough but sadly that did not happen (and he was very disappointing in the play-off).

The difference between the three players? IMO is that both RLC and Kenedy if sent on loan to Palace or most of the premiership teams would have forced themselves into being first team players where as Bamford would not have. Those are the sort of players we need on the bench,
Did you ever actually watch Kenedy play for his previous club? It's very hard to judge these players until we get a look at them playing in our own team. Even with senior players we've often signed people that have been great for their previous club but not done the business for us. Or if you look at someone like Victor Moses for example, he did quite well for us in his first season, but couldn't even get games at Liverpool when we loaned him there despite the fact that they had a weaker squad than us. It's about players being a better fit for different clubs at any given time.

I like both RLC and Kenedy but I'm not so sure that they would have forced their way into Palace's starting team this season either. Would RLC be playing over Cabaye for example? Maybe a team like Watford? Nathan Ake seems to be doing ok there lately.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 11:05
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
Did you ever actually watch Kenedy play for his previous club? It's very hard to judge these players until we get a look at them playing in our own team.

I like both RLC and Kenedy but I'm not so sure that they would have forced their way into Palace's starting team this season either. Maybe a team like Watford? Nathan Ake seems to be doing ok there lately.
I am not bothered about their talent. They are all clearly talented players.

But we have seen many talented players not make it many times and mainly because they lacked the right mentality. Both Ake and RLC remind me of JT,Ash and Lamps in the way their present themselves.

That for me is the key when it comes to being the difference between being a professional footballer and a professional at a club like Chelsea.

If Kenedy had a number of regular starts at his previous club it is logical that not only was he talented but he showed the correct mental attitude.

I don't think nowadays it is hard to judge players without them playing in your own team. If they have had a good education then they should be adaptable enough to fit into many different teams when called on.

This is where I think we have failed in England. We have the talent but we do not spend enough time educating them in the right way.

Lamp's is a perfect case of that. He was a very good footballer that was clear to see from early on in his career but the thing that got him to the next level? His personality, His mental strength and his attitude.

If you look at all our key players from the last few years, Drog,JT,Lamps,Ash,Cech etc all very talent players but what stands out more then that was their attitude.

We have to tailor the education to each player and not a one programmable fits all.

I honestly think from watching Bamford last season and watching what we have seen this season. He is playing at the level he should be. If he had not started last night then I would have been disappointed as I think those are the sort of games he should be starting for them but apart from that, I think its about right for where he is at the moment. It has to be a long term plan with youth players and I not talking about a couple of seasons (depending of course on their progress)
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 11:34
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
I am not bothered about their talent. They are all clearly talented players.

But we have seen many talented players not make it many times and mainly because they lacked the right mentality. Both Ake and RLC remind me of JT,Ash and Lamps in the way their present themselves.

That for me is the key when it comes to being the difference between being a professional footballer and a professional at a club like Chelsea.

If Kenedy had a number of regular starts at his previous club it is logical that not only was he talented but he showed the correct mental attitude.

I don't think nowadays it is hard to judge players without them playing in your own team. If they have had a good education then they should be adaptable enough to fit into many different teams when called on.

This is where I think we have failed in England. We have the talent but we do not spend enough time educating them in the right way.

Lamp's is a perfect case of that. He was a very good footballer that was clear to see from early on in his career but the thing that got him to the next level? His personality, His mental strength and his attitude.

If you look at all our key players from the last few years, Drog,JT,Lamps,Ash,Cech etc all very talent players but what stands out more then that was their attitude.

We have to tailor the education to each player and not a one programmable fits all.

I honestly think from watching Bamford last season and watching what we have seen this season. He is playing at the level he should be. If he had not started last night then I would have been disappointed as I think those are the sort of games he should be starting for them but apart from that, I think its about right for where he is at the moment. It has to be a long term plan with youth players and I not talking about a couple of seasons (depending of course on their progress)
Re: the bolded bit, could you not say exactly the same thing about Bamford though? He established himself as a key part of Middlesboro's promotion-chasing side last year, surely he had to show the correct attitude to get his head down and want to progress to do that? Maybe he will end up going the same way as McEachran, who knows, but I've haven't seen anything to suggest that just yet.

If we're talking about mental resilience though, that is indeed very important and one thing we've certainly learnt this season is that several of our first team players are lacking in it. Hazard in particular, who may have the talent and even work ethic but doesn't appear to have the bottle to go with it that the likes of Drogs and Lamps had.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 12:30
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
Re: the bolded bit, could you not say exactly the same thing about Bamford though? He established himself as a key part of Middlesboro's promotion-chasing side last year, surely he had to show the correct attitude to get his head down and want to progress to do that? Maybe he will end up going the same way as McEachran, who knows, but I've haven't seen anything to suggest that just yet.

If we're talking about mental resilience though, that is indeed very important and one thing we've certainly learnt this season is that several of our first team players are lacking in it. Hazard in particular, who may have the talent and even work ethic but doesn't appear to have the bottle to go with it that the likes of Drogs and Lamps had.
Kenedy played in the top league of the country. It comes with a different type of pressure and a different type of scrutiny. Its partly why I think it would have done Bamford a massive amount of good if he came up with Middlesbough, Being part of a side that has come up brings with it a very different type of pressure. Bamford is 22 even if he is not part of our first team for 3 years he still will be 25 same age as when JT won his first title roughly.

Your second point is also partly why I did not mind the Falco deal. We have few players who have never really been where we are now, Winning a title is easy compared to defending one. The dressing room is very short of winners. Falco fits that bill
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 13:13
carefree_blue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,733
Kenedy played in the top league of the country. It comes with a different type of pressure and a different type of scrutiny. Its partly why I think it would have done Bamford a massive amount of good if he came up with Middlesbough, Being part of a side that has come up brings with it a very different type of pressure. Bamford is 22 even if he is not part of our first team for 3 years he still will be 25 same age as when JT won his first title roughly.

Your second point is also partly why I did not mind the Falco deal. We have few players who have never really been where we are now, Winning a title is easy compared to defending one. The dressing room is very short of winners. Falco fits that bill
I'm not sure you can really hold up the Brazilian league as being a particularly high standard, especially at the moment. If anything I'd say it's easier for these types of players to perform over there, where they're afforded more time on the ball.

Has Falcao really had any more experience of defending titles than many of the players already at the club? He only won the title once with Porto, and left them straight after that to join Atletico. He was at Monaco when Atletico won the Primera Liga.
carefree_blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 15:09
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
I'm not sure you can really hold up the Brazilian league as being a particularly high standard, especially at the moment. If anything I'd say it's easier for these types of players to perform over there, where they're afforded more time on the ball.

Has Falcao really had any more experience of defending titles than many of the players already at the club? He only won the title once with Porto, and left them straight after that to join Atletico. He was at Monaco when Atletico won the Primera Liga.
Its not the standard of the league its more what comes with being in the top league of the country. There is often more pressure etc when performing at the top level of the country then in the other leagues. Again its not dealing with the on pitch stuff its what your mindset has to be.

Falcao has been in dressing rooms that are use to the type of pressure that we need our players to get to. Everyone of those teams are teams where your best is not good enough. You have to perform where you have to aim for more then your best. Stuff like Atletico beating Real for the first time in 14 games etc.

Young players coming to Chelsea don't just need to learn how to be a professional premiership footballer which is a hard enough ask as it is they need to learn how to be be ones where every single thing you do, don't do,say,don't say,go, don't go and so on are not only examined but examined by a number of difference sources and all who read something different into and that's not just media sources, Take here for example we have someone who thinks players should not be allowed to lark about in their own kitchen and should not be allowed to show their own religious believes.

Asking someone in their early 20's to endure such nonsense without a education is criminal.

Its why I think our youth system is not fit for purpose (and why I think B teams in the lower leagues should be looked at). The youth league should be like a university education for our players but when you actually look the level its more like a primary school education.

I want to give our youth players the best possible resources and arm them with as much as possible so when they do step onto the pitch at the new ground playing in a game where its the difference between winning the title and losing it and there is 3 minutes on the clock they are ready for that.
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 15:35
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
Take here for example we have someone who thinks players should not be allowed to lark about in their own kitchen
Of course, you are refering to me yet again, as you are want to do here.

I do not think being knocked out, when you are a professional athlete, is an example of "larking about". It was stupid, and Rooney could have easily have been injured or even killed.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 15:40
NorthernNinny
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,095
Of course, you are refering to me yet again, as you are want to do here.

I do not think being knocked out, when you are a professional athlete, is an example of "larking about". It was stupid, and Rooney could have easily have been injured or even killed.
Tbf he's playing like he's punch drunk at times.
NorthernNinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 15:52
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
Tbf he's playing like he's punch drunk at times.
he is definitely finished, burnt out.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 15:56
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
Of course, you are refering to me yet again, as you are want to do here.

I do not think being knocked out, when you are a professional athlete, is an example of "larking about". It was stupid, and Rooney could have easily have been injured or even killed.
Stupid or not. Knocked out or not. Injured or not. Dead or lives.

Still none of our business.

Still nothing for anyone else to comment on

You might not think that but it is a actual fact.
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 17:13
NinjyBear
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
Arrest warrant issued for Lucas Piazon over alleged sexual assault.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a6713826.html
NinjyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2015, 17:17
NinjyBear
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,680
And Ramires has signed a new deal.

Aargh.....
NinjyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2015, 00:39
linkinpark875
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 24,424
http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/29/chelse...eport-5468848/

AVB go come back surely not? The players openly never took to him. Surely Carlo would be better?
linkinpark875 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2015, 05:12
pembo2004
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2,638
thats what the sun reports carlo will come back if he is asked

AVB was nightmare last time what will be so different now??
pembo2004 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2015, 07:17
The_don1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,433
thats what the sun reports carlo will come back if he is asked

AVB was nightmare last time what will be so different now??
The so called journalist has just pulled a different name out of a hat. Will be reporting a totally different one tomorrow. Gotta fill the space somebody
The_don1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2015, 08:34
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
There is only 1 person to replace Jose, if he is pushed.

Carlo.

Names like AVB and Rodgers are clearly members of the press having a laugh at our expense.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2015, 08:36
codeblue
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
Arrest warrant issued for Lucas Piazon over alleged sexual assault.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a6713826.html
he is on loan at reading

"Reading FC responded to the allegations by telling reporters to contact Chelsea, from whom Piazon is on loan. “He’s a Chelsea player, so you’d need to speak with Chelsea,” said Mark Bradley, head of media relations for the club."

Thanks a bunch Mark Bradley.
codeblue is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:29.