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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5) |
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#5526 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 760
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I hope you're right, it would be a terrible idea. Hell, I'd sooner have Rafa back !
Guardiola? The best manager in the world, and I think the players could adjust to his attacking style and would want to attack more. Oscar, case in point. Pellegrini I agree is no better than Rafa, and probably worse. I still don't understand the massive reaction against Mourhino leaving. I honestly think that his first choice English club after Porto and after Real was Man Utd. He's an extremely crafty individual. Also think his wages were a problem. £250 k / week, insisting he's always paid more than any player? Too much if all he was ever going to do was the same approach as the season before. At Man Utd, if he goes, he'll fail. The fans there will never accept his overly defensive football philosophy. Nice to see JT on side. Come on the Chels'!
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#5527 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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I know we all have memory problems the older we get but Oscar was the player you were saying should not of been in ahead of Mata. YOU didn't want him in the team.
Strange how you change your tune now. Mikel on, Ramires on, so none of your usual criticism of that ??? ![]() I was loving the way Rafa was getting Oscar, Mata and Hazard cllcking together, when everyone else was saying we could only play two of them. Yes, Mata over Oscar,but when it was proved all three could work i wanted them all in the team. And yes, i would get rid of Mikel and Ramires, but that's for next year and the next manager to sort out. If either of those two are still being used ahead of Loftus, then the signs will be worrying. |
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#5528 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Sound Expert
Posts: 13,881
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Rafa was a terrible manager, an awful fit for most fans. He is about to be sacked again.
Pep should be our #1 target. |
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#5529 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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I think you'll find most managers will expect their midfield attacking players to track back when necessary, it's part of the modern game. When you lose the ball, everyone works like hell to get it back. That's the way Barcelona play as you must know.
Barcelona (and Spain) famously played 4-6-0 for a while, and very successfully. It was all about hard work as much as the beautiful tiki-taka that everyone admired so much. |
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#5530 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,660
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Raf's an interesting one, and it seems clear now that some fans at the bridge liked Mourhino because he always had time for them. Rafa doesn't do that at any club, and just gets on with focusing on the squad and results.
Guardiola? The best manager in the world, and I think the players could adjust to his attacking style and would want to attack more. Oscar, case in point. Pellegrini I agree is no better than Rafa, and probably worse. I still don't understand the massive reaction against Mourhino leaving. I honestly think that his first choice English club after Porto and after Real was Man Utd. He's an extremely crafty individual. Also think his wages were a problem. £250 k / week, insisting he's always paid more than any player? Too much if all he was ever going to do was the same approach as the season before. At Man Utd, if he goes, he'll fail. The fans there will never accept his overly defensive football philosophy. Nice to see JT on side. Come on the Chels'! ![]() Anyway, what did you think of Ake yesterday ? Great to see him scoring right
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#5531 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Yes I am because as a manager he was average at best. He can have all the talent in the world but that doesn't mean his view should count for anything. Gazza greatest player this country has seen? Don't mean his views are relevant. As a Manger this world player of the year did something no manager or player could do, Stop the greatest striker we have seen and more then likely ever see he stopped Shearer from scoring
I want to see Hazard win league titles end of. His talent means nothing if he not doing that. ![]() You really do seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with Jose's idea of how to play football is a complete idiot who knows next to nothing about the game. Funny how the worlds number one manager, most in demand manager and the Fergie, the greatest manager to have ever managed in English football, don't/didn't go in for his boring, sterile ideas on the game,. |
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#5532 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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Raf's an interesting one, and it seems clear now that some fans at the bridge liked Mourhino because he always had time for them. Rafa doesn't do that at any club, and just gets on with focusing on the squad and results.
Guardiola? The best manager in the world, and I think the players could adjust to his attacking style and would want to attack more. Oscar, case in point. Pellegrini I agree is no better than Rafa, and probably worse. I still don't understand the massive reaction against Mourhino leaving. I honestly think that his first choice English club after Porto and after Real was Man Utd. He's an extremely crafty individual. Also think his wages were a problem. £250 k / week, insisting he's always paid more than any player? Too much if all he was ever going to do was the same approach as the season before. At Man Utd, if he goes, he'll fail. The fans there will never accept his overly defensive football philosophy. Nice to see JT on side. Come on the Chels'! ![]() The PL is very competitive though, as we can see from this season nobody gets an easy ride. Chelsea aren't the only club (though our results have been terrible) to struggle against teams that used to be considered cannon fodder for the big boys. Mourinho is shrewd (or crafty as you say) but I think it's a conspiracy theory too far to suggest he signed a new contract and then forced Chelsea to sack him. But you're not the only one to suggest it. I'm still wondering what happened during the summer, Jose wasn't really the same guy at the very beginning of the season, and that was before we went on our terrible run of games. I'm beginning to think it was more than a falling-out with a few players, perhaps personal issues were getting him down. |
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#5533 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,434
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You recently said Rudd did a fantastic job for us under the circumstances.
![]() You really do seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with Jose's idea of how to play football is a complete idiot who knows next to nothing about the game. Funny how the worlds number one manager, most in demand manager and the Fergie, the greatest manager to have ever managed in English football, don't/didn't go in for his boring, sterile ideas on the game,. I do not think that at all, But once again and I am sorry if it goes over your head but I think I have explained it quite clearly in the past of course there are many different ways to be successful you only seem to think the way you like is the only way to go about it. The main part is Chelsea are successful. If we do it winning every game 4-0 then all good, If we do it winning every game 1-0 then all good. I will never accept success for a club at our level being double points from the league title season after season and a nice "cup". Of course Jose style will not work all the time and there will be times when it doesn't work but he will win you more titles then just about every other manager out there. Its not about personal choice or what people like or want, Its not how you get the title, Its about winning and winning league titles. It's not worked this season but if I was going to bet on who is going to win a league title first Jose or Chelsea? Then I think the smart money would be on Jose and that is before we even know where he is going |
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#5534 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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He did, But just because he did a decent job for us I am not going to make out he is some all knowing amazing person. When it comes to winning titles and what players should be doing or not doing then I am going to take a person who has actually managed at that level. He did ok for us but his career after us has shown more of his abilities as manager and what it takes to be successful in football management. Very good player but when it comes to the highest level of the premiership? His views are about as relevant as some random who you get talking to down the pub
I do not think that at all, But once again and I am sorry if it goes over your head but I think I have explained it quite clearly in the past of course there are many different ways to be successful you only seem to think the way you like is the only way to go about it. The main part is Chelsea are successful. If we do it winning every game 4-0 then all good, If we do it winning every game 1-0 then all good. I will never accept success for a club at our level being double points from the league title season after season and a nice "cup". Of course Jose style will not work all the time and there will be times when it doesn't work but he will win you more titles then just about every other manager out there. Its not about personal choice or what people like or want, Its not how you get the title, Its about winning and winning league titles. It's not worked this season but if I was going to bet on who is going to win a league title first Jose or Chelsea? Then I think the smart money would be on Jose and that is before we even know where he is going No doubt Jose will win another title, but, as i've said elsewhere, it will come at a price! He's left behind a mess that is going to need an awful lot of time and money on to sort out. In terms of development, we are now much worse off than when he took over! When he took over we were in the process of changing the way were going to play for generations to come. That was ripped up by Jose for short term success and now, once again, we a re going to have to start all over again. Has it been worth it? However, i guess and accept that the days of us, or anyone else building a Fergie type empire are now over and done with. From now on it will be managers at all the top clubs only staying for a few seasons then moving on. |
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#5535 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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Yes, I think you're right Don. It was said many times by various pundits that the difference last season between Chelsea and contenders like Arsenal, the Machester clubs and Liverpool etc was that we had Mourinho as manager. Love him or loathe him, the guy's a winner.
Also, I'm fed up with saying it, but I'll say it again. The business about "parking the bus" and boring, defensive football is a myth. If I could be bothered, I'd post a video compilation of a selection of games that we played with Jose as manager and challenge anyone to call our football dull and boring. Yes, Mourinho knew when to shut games down, usually when 3 points were secure. But we also played some great football with Jose at the helm. |
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#5536 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,434
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No doubt Jose will win another title, but, as i've said elsewhere, it will come at a price!
He's left behind a mess that is going to need an awful lot of time and money on to sort out. In terms of development, we are now much worse off than when he took over! When he took over we were in the process of changing the way were going to play for generations to come. That was ripped up by Jose for short term success and now, once again, we a re going to have to start all over again. Has it been worth it? However, i guess and accept that the days of us, or anyone else building a Fergie type empire are now over and done with. From now on it will be managers at all the top clubs only staying for a few seasons then moving on. How we play is not important, That obsession replaced the obsession with the Champions League one before that and keeps holding us back. It why we have failed in the league more then we have succeed. We was more going down The Arsenal route then any route that is actually successful. "ohhh" we won a couple of cups and finished top 4 lets hire a open top bus. That might be ok for Wenger and Arsenal but my demands will always be higher then Arsenals. There is nothing wrong with not winning the title but never to have a real chance of winning it then that's a problem, We need to be playing at the level where we are in with a shout until the final whistle in the final game of the season is blown, We need to be doing that season after season after season, There is no reason why we cannot do that. Winning the title is worth anything. That is the be all and end all, It is everything. Once we start winning titles back to back and then in 3's once we have 6/7 titles in 10 years once we have actually become not a force in premiership BUT THE FORCE in the premiership then we can sort of the hows of how we do it. At the moment we are trying to run before we can walk, Its the curse of modern society "I WANT IT NOW" "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY I WANT TO DO IT MY WAY". Before we get everything that comes with a top top top club in football we need to start winning titles |
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#5537 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,660
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However, i guess and accept that the days of us, or anyone else building a Fergie type empire are now over and done with. From now on it will be managers at all the top clubs only staying for a few seasons then moving on. Even if we managed to get Pep, which is unlikely, he will only be here for 3 seasons. Perhaps Chelsea were ahead of the game. Get in a manager for a few seasons, win trophies and move on...... |
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#5538 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Also, I'm fed up with saying it, but I'll say it again. The business about "parking the bus" and boring, defensive football is a myth. If I could be bothered, I'd post a video compilation of a selection of games that we played with Jose as manager and challenge anyone to call our football dull and boring. Yes, Mourinho knew when to shut games down, usually when 3 points were secure. But we also played some great football with Jose at the helm. Oh come on, lets be honest about this! With the players we had in our teams it would have been almost impossible for us to have not player some great football at times. But the great football we played would have been inspite of Jose, not because of him! When we had a really great team, his ideal scoreline was 2=0. Our defence was so rock solid back then, that when we went 2 up it was game over! Too many times, insTead of us going on to hammer teams and put on a real show for both the Chelsea fans and the neutrals watching on tv, we would stroll through the rest of the game and conserve energy for the next game. ![]() The likes of Carlo, Fergie, Wenger, Pep and many many others, would want their teams to put on a show and go for 4, 5 or 6 goals. And, too many times in big games, he set up Chelsea to spoil and try and scratch out a boring one nil win. He did not trust his players enough to let them go out and take the game to the opposition.
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#5539 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Success comes at a price and if you want it then you have to pay it.
How we play is not important, That obsession replaced the obsession with the Champions League one before that and keeps holding us back. It why we have failed in the league more then we have succeed. We was more going down The Arsenal route then any route that is actually successful. "ohhh" we won a couple of cups and finished top 4 lets hire a open top bus. That might be ok for Wenger and Arsenal but my demands will always be higher then Arsenals. There is nothing wrong with not winning the title but never to have a real chance of winning it then that's a problem, We need to be playing at the level where we are in with a shout until the final whistle in the final game of the season is blown, We need to be doing that season after season after season, There is no reason why we cannot do that. Winning the title is worth anything. That is the be all and end all, It is everything. Once we start winning titles back to back and then in 3's once we have 6/7 titles in 10 years once we have actually become not a force in premiership BUT THE FORCE in the premiership then we can sort of the hows of how we do it. At the moment we are trying to run before we can walk, Its the curse of modern society "I WANT IT NOW" "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY I WANT TO DO IT MY WAY". Before we get everything that comes with a top top top club in football we need to start winning titles The chances of us, or any team winning 6/7 titles in 10 years is going to be extremely slim from here on in. Us winning 4 has been as good as we're ever likely to get, no matter who the manager is or how much money we spend,. |
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#5540 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,434
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Oh come on, lets be honest about this!
With the players we had in our teams it would have been almost impossible for us to have not player some great football at times. But the great football we played would have been inspite of Jose, not because of him! When we had a really great team, his ideal scoreline was 2=0. Our defence was so rock solid back then, that when we went 2 up it was game over! Too many times, insTead of us going on to hammer teams and put on a real show for both the Chelsea fans and the neutrals watching on tv, we would stroll through the rest of the game and conserve energy for the next game. ![]() The likes of Carlo, Fergie, Wenger, Pep and many many others, would want their teams to put on a show and go for 4, 5 or 6 goals. And, too many times in big games, he set up Chelsea to spoil and try and scratch out a boring one nil win. He did not trust his players enough to let them go out and take the game to the opposition. ![]() There is none |
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#5541 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,434
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The chances of us, or any team winning 6/7 titles in 10 years is going to be extremely slim from here on in. Us winning 4 has been as good as we're ever likely to get, no matter who the manager is or how much money we spend,.
All to often we have not been. We should still always be within touching point of first place. All to often we have not been anywhere near the title and that's just not good enough |
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#5542 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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Oh come on, lets be honest about this!
With the players we had in our teams it would have been almost impossible for us to have not player some great football at times. But the great football we played would have been inspite of Jose, not because of him! When we had a really great team, his ideal scoreline was 2=0. Our defence was so rock solid back then, that when we went 2 up it was game over! Too many times, insTead of us going on to hammer teams and put on a real show for both the Chelsea fans and the neutrals watching on tv, we would stroll through the rest of the game and conserve energy for the next game. ![]() The likes of Carlo, Fergie, Wenger, Pep and many many others, would want their teams to put on a show and go for 4, 5 or 6 goals. And, too many times in big games, he set up Chelsea to spoil and try and scratch out a boring one nil win. He did not trust his players enough to let them go out and take the game to the opposition. ![]() In my book, 2-0 is better than 5-3, but if you can go on to crush a team 5-0 so much the better I suppose. As I say, for me being in total control of a game is what impresses me most. |
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#5543 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,130
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I would love Pep to come to us next summer, i think hes the best coach in the world, with Jose not far behind.
I am however not very confident that he will choose us. I think he will come to England but i think he is more likely to pick one of the Manchester clubs than us sadly. I think he will feel he will get more freedom to work and pick the squad as he likes at those two clubs, rather than have Abramovich watching over him. |
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#5544 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,660
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Oh come on, lets be honest about this!
With the players we had in our teams it would have been almost impossible for us to have not player some great football at times. But the great football we played would have been inspite of Jose, not because of him! When we had a really great team, his ideal scoreline was 2=0. Our defence was so rock solid back then, that when we went 2 up it was game over! Too many times, insTead of us going on to hammer teams and put on a real show for both the Chelsea fans and the neutrals watching on tv, we would stroll through the rest of the game and conserve energy for the next game. ![]() The likes of Carlo, Fergie, Wenger, Pep and many many others, would want their teams to put on a show and go for 4, 5 or 6 goals. And, too many times in big games, he set up Chelsea to spoil and try and scratch out a boring one nil win. He did not trust his players enough to let them go out and take the game to the opposition. ![]() The rest of us want to celebrate winning silverware as ultimately that the point of it all. Each to their own of course. |
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#5545 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,041
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I would love Pep to come to us next summer, i think hes the best coach in the world, with Jose not far behind.
I am however not very confident that he will choose us. I think he will come to England but i think he is more likely to pick one of the Manchester clubs than us sadly. I think he will feel he will get more freedom to work and pick the squad as he likes at those two clubs, rather than have Abramovich watching over him. ![]()
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#5546 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 760
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Guardiola ? It would certainly be interesting. I'm not so sure his attacking style would work in the PL, but I guess top class managers can adapt their style to suit any league.
The PL is very competitive though, as we can see from this season nobody gets an easy ride. Chelsea aren't the only club (though our results have been terrible) to struggle against teams that used to be considered cannon fodder for the big boys. Mourinho is shrewd (or crafty as you say) but I think it's a conspiracy theory too far to suggest he signed a new contract and then forced Chelsea to sack him. But you're not the only one to suggest it. I'm still wondering what happened during the summer, Jose wasn't really the same guy at the very beginning of the season, and that was before we went on our terrible run of games. I'm beginning to think it was more than a falling-out with a few players, perhaps personal issues were getting him down. Imo, he would jump at the chance of being the Man Utd boss, and there'll be no loyalty there, despite the adulation that some fans give him. But.. it will be no Inter dream treble, and he will fail. That's my opinion any way. He's no SAF. |
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#5547 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 760
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Oh come on, lets be honest about this!
With the players we had in our teams it would have been almost impossible for us to have not player some great football at times. But the great football we played would have been inspite of Jose, not because of him! When we had a really great team, his ideal scoreline was 2=0. Our defence was so rock solid back then, that when we went 2 up it was game over! Too many times, insTead of us going on to hammer teams and put on a real show for both the Chelsea fans and the neutrals watching on tv, we would stroll through the rest of the game and conserve energy for the next game. ![]() The likes of Carlo, Fergie, Wenger, Pep and many many others, would want their teams to put on a show and go for 4, 5 or 6 goals. And, too many times in big games, he set up Chelsea to spoil and try and scratch out a boring one nil win. He did not trust his players enough to let them go out and take the game to the opposition. ![]() This year, now that Mourhino has gone thankfully, we've got a great chance of winning the CL, and pressing for a top 4 place. Hiddink is the right coach for now, and we need a manager long term that will encourage attacking football in true blue Chelsea tradition. |
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#5548 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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Dixon, keep on going, and don't listen to Man U fans. Most Chelsea fans want exactly that, a show. You're absolutely right. It's what the players want as well thankfully, to express themselves.
This year, now that Mourhino has gone thankfully, we've got a great chance of winning the CL, and pressing for a top 4 place. Hiddink is the right coach for now, and we need a manager long term that will encourage attacking football in true blue Chelsea tradition. |
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#5549 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 56,295
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Dixon, keep on going, and don't listen to Man U fans. Most Chelsea fans want exactly that, a show. You're absolutely right. It's what the players want as well thankfully, to express themselves.
This year, now that Mourhino has gone thankfully, we've got a great chance of winning the CL, and pressing for a top 4 place. Hiddink is the right coach for now, and we need a manager long term that will encourage attacking football in true blue Chelsea tradition. |
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#5550 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
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I think Hiddink is past his prime and hasn't shown anything spectacular for some time. He was a good coach for average sides in the past though.
Can people explain to me all the Pep love on here?! Best manager in the world? Really? As a Bayern fan, I can't wait for Ancelotti and both Hitzfeld and Heynckes were MILES better than him. Pep can only play one way (admittedly, a pretty way) and if that goes wrong, there is never a plan B. If Pep fails to win the Champions League (again!) with the current Bayern squad, he really isn't great. |
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